David Nadlinger:
There seems to have been some discussion regarding
std.experimental at DConf,
In the discussions of yesterday has emerged a feature of Rust I
didn't know about:
http://doc.rust-lang.org/rust.html#stability
In Rust code you can add annotations like #[stable] that specify
On 30/05/14 12:53, w0rp wrote:
It's always, always easier to experiment by releasing a dub package.
Including a module in the standard library requires the approval of a
commity. You can always release a dub package, no one is going to stop you.
std.experimental is probably best used for
On Thursday, 29 May 2014 at 19:41:48 UTC, Wyatt wrote:
On Thursday, 29 May 2014 at 19:15:29 UTC, ponce wrote:
Now you have another problem, how do you know that something
looks good from a design point of view for inclusion in
std.experimental? Reviews like for Phobos inclusion?
Especially
On Friday, 30 May 2014 at 05:20:57 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
Also please don't analyze this to death. It's meant to reduce
friction, not increase this.
I'm not sure whether your comment was just targeted at the naming
discussions, but in general, I find it very valid to discuss the
On 5/30/14, 3:35 AM, David Nadlinger wrote:
Personally, I rather like the idea of std.experimental being a staging
area for libraries that already passed some initial round of review (be
it in the form of a dub package or otherwise) to get more widespread
attention before being set in stone.
On Friday, 30 May 2014 at 10:35:57 UTC, David Nadlinger wrote:
On Friday, 30 May 2014 at 05:20:57 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
Also please don't analyze this to death. It's meant to reduce
friction, not increase this.
I'm not sure whether your comment was just targeted at the
naming
On Thu, 29 May 2014 20:27:00 -0400, Marco Leise marco.le...@gmx.de wrote:
Am Thu, 29 May 2014 18:35:49 +0200
schrieb Joseph Rushton Wakeling via Digitalmars-d
digitalmars-d@puremagic.com:
On 29/05/14 16:47, Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d wrote:
javax was the experimental branch for
On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 12:06:34PM -0400, Steven Schveighoffer via
Digitalmars-d wrote:
[...]
By saying up front this is experimental, expect breakage, the policy
is clear, and complaints are shrugged off, nobody has anyone to blame
but themselves.
You may argue Yeah, but javax was supposed
On Friday, 30 May 2014 at 01:39:26 UTC, Jonathan M Davis via
Digitalmars-d wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2014 20:55:32 +
Dicebot via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote:
I have discussed this with Andrei shortly after he has merged
PR
that adds `std.experimental` to Phobos. Looks like
On Friday, 30 May 2014 at 16:33:06 UTC, H. S. Teoh via
Digitalmars-d wrote:
Maybe we should call it std.broken_in_next_release. ;-)
T
import std.heretherebedragons.all;
On Fri, 30 May 2014 12:32:55 -0400, Chris Williams
yoreanon-chr...@yahoo.co.jp wrote:
On Friday, 30 May 2014 at 01:39:26 UTC, Jonathan M Davis via
Digitalmars-d wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2014 20:55:32 +
Dicebot via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote:
I have discussed this
On Friday, 30 May 2014 at 17:35:39 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer
wrote:
You mean like http://dlang.org/attribute#deprecated ?
Yes, except named experimental.
I had been intending (should I ever have free time...) to add
some features to std.concurrency, but I don't think there's
any way to
On Friday, 30 May 2014 at 01:39:26 UTC, Jonathan M Davis via
Digitalmars-d wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2014 20:55:32 +
Dicebot via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote:
I have discussed this with Andrei shortly after he has merged
PR
that adds `std.experimental` to Phobos. Looks like
On 30/05/14 07:21, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d wrote:
Also please don't analyze this to death. It's meant to reduce friction, not
increase this.
Yea, sorry if I've been overly-obsessing on the details. Bottom line, I have
some code in mind for it, which is not currently on
Hi all,
There seems to have been some discussion regarding
std.experimental at DConf, as several proposals to add modules to
it have popped up over the last few days. Maybe Andrei's keynote
had something on it (I unfortunately missed it)?
In any case, could somebody please outline the
On 29/05/14 09:55, David Nadlinger via Digitalmars-d wrote:
In any case, could somebody please outline the discussion here? To me, directly
proposing modules for std.experimental that haven't gone through being a
(popular) code.dlang.org package first seems to be at odds with promoting the
On Thu, 29 May 2014 03:55:24 -0400, David Nadlinger c...@klickverbot.at
wrote:
Hi all,
There seems to have been some discussion regarding std.experimental at
DConf, as several proposals to add modules to it have popped up over the
last few days. Maybe Andrei's keynote had something on it
On 29/05/14 14:52, Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d wrote:
In andrei's talk he said we should add std.experimental. I don't think there was
much discussion, people liked the idea. There was no discussion on how things
would be placed in there (i.e. up for debate), but it definitely is
On Thursday, 29 May 2014 at 13:34:26 UTC, Joseph Rushton Wakeling
via Digitalmars-d wrote:
Minor point -- is it really going to be the clunky
std.experimental, or is it going to be something elegant like
exp.* ... ?
I would prefer the latter. :-)
I think I would too. But failing that,
On Thu, 29 May 2014 09:33:59 -0400, Joseph Rushton Wakeling via
Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote:
On 29/05/14 14:52, Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d wrote:
In andrei's talk he said we should add std.experimental. I don't think
there was
much discussion, people liked
Joseph Rushton Wakeling:
Minor point -- is it really going to be the clunky
std.experimental,
Clunky is good for something that you only use for experiments.
Short names should be left for good reliable functionality.
Bye,
bearophile
On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 10:47:26AM -0400, Steven Schveighoffer via
Digitalmars-d wrote:
[...]
javax was the experimental branch for Java's experimental code. Now
javax.xml is PERMANENT.
I think experimental spells out This is subject to immediate and
frequent change. IT MAY BREAK YOUR CODE
On Thursday, 29 May 2014 at 14:50:40 UTC, bearophile wrote:
Joseph Rushton Wakeling:
Minor point -- is it really going to be the clunky
std.experimental,
Clunky is good for something that you only use for experiments.
Short names should be left for good reliable functionality.
Bye,
On Thu, 29 May 2014 11:12:00 -0400, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d
digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote:
On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 10:47:26AM -0400, Steven Schveighoffer via
Digitalmars-d wrote:
[...]
javax was the experimental branch for Java's experimental code. Now
javax.xml is PERMANENT.
I
On Thursday, 29 May 2014 at 15:44:11 UTC, Meta wrote:
Yes, I think this is a good case where making things slightly
harder for users is good. If someone has to think twice about
using std.experimental because of the long name, then they'll
probably also think twice about how their code might
On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 12:03:43PM -0400, Steven Schveighoffer via
Digitalmars-d wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2014 11:12:00 -0400, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d
digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote:
On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 10:47:26AM -0400, Steven Schveighoffer via
Digitalmars-d wrote:
[...]
I think
On Thursday, 29 May 2014 at 12:10:23 UTC, Joseph Rushton Wakeling
via Digitalmars-d wrote:
Requiring people to prove themselves in a popularity contest
first seems to me to get in the way of the aim to have a
fast-moving,
able-to-quickly-get-user-feedback-and-make-breaking-changes
part of the
On 29/05/14 16:47, Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d wrote:
javax was the experimental branch for Java's experimental code. Now javax.xml is
PERMANENT.
Point taken. That said, I fear that _any_ module or package that gets widely
used carries such a risk.
On 29/05/14 18:22, ponce via Digitalmars-d wrote:
Is it really fast moving when you have to wait for compiler releases? I don't
think so.
Fair point. What I was really trying to say is, that if something looks good
from a design point of view, that getting it straight into std.experimental
On Thu, 29 May 2014 12:44:10 -0400, Joseph Rushton Wakeling via
Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote:
On 29/05/14 18:22, ponce via Digitalmars-d wrote:
Is it really fast moving when you have to wait for compiler releases? I
don't
think so.
Fair point. What I was really trying
29-May-2014 11:55, David Nadlinger пишет:
Hi all,
There seems to have been some discussion regarding std.experimental at
DConf, as several proposals to add modules to it have popped up over the
last few days. Maybe Andrei's keynote had something on it (I
unfortunately missed it)?
It was in
On Thursday, 29 May 2014 at 16:53:53 UTC, Joseph Rushton Wakeling
via Digitalmars-d wrote:
On 29/05/14 18:22, ponce via Digitalmars-d wrote:
Is it really fast moving when you have to wait for compiler
releases? I don't
think so.
Fair point. What I was really trying to say is, that if
Yes, most definitely. e.g., there may be several serialization
libraries in code.dlang.org. But there would only ever be one
in std.experimental. It says this is the one we are
considering for inclusion. By definition, more people would
use it, and consider it semi-official.
So this will
On Thursday, 29 May 2014 at 19:15:29 UTC, ponce wrote:
Now you have another problem, how do you know that something
looks good from a design point of view for inclusion in
std.experimental? Reviews like for Phobos inclusion? Especially
with no users at this point.
It's an experiment;
On Thu, 29 May 2014 15:15:27 -0400, ponce cont...@gam3sfrommars.fr wrote:
On what criterion do you filter applicants for std.experimental then?
Same way we do it for std.
I think there is a confusion here. std.experimental should be for code
that hasn't been proven, but generally
On Thursday, 29 May 2014 at 07:55:26 UTC, David Nadlinger wrote:
Hi all,
There seems to have been some discussion regarding
std.experimental at DConf, as several proposals to add modules
to it have popped up over the last few days. Maybe Andrei's
keynote had something on it (I unfortunately
On 29/05/14 20:46, Dmitry Olshansky via Digitalmars-d wrote:
Personally I believe that anything not stable enough simply wouldn't work
sitting in Phobos. The release cycle is like 4? months, patches need review (by
whom? if its just smb's experiment).
And there is the question of keeping 2 forks
30-May-2014 02:15, Joseph Rushton Wakeling via Digitalmars-d пишет:
On 29/05/14 20:46, Dmitry Olshansky via Digitalmars-d wrote:
Personally I believe that anything not stable enough simply wouldn't work
sitting in Phobos. The release cycle is like 4? months, patches need
review (by
whom? if its
On Thursday, 29 May 2014 at 22:16:09 UTC, Joseph Rushton Wakeling
via Digitalmars-d wrote:
On 29/05/14 20:46, Dmitry Olshansky via Digitalmars-d wrote:
Personally I believe that anything not stable enough simply
wouldn't work
sitting in Phobos. The release cycle is like 4? months,
patches need
Am Thu, 29 May 2014 18:35:49 +0200
schrieb Joseph Rushton Wakeling via Digitalmars-d
digitalmars-d@puremagic.com:
On 29/05/14 16:47, Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d wrote:
javax was the experimental branch for Java's experimental code. Now
javax.xml is
PERMANENT.
Point taken.
On Thu, 29 May 2014 18:35:49 +0200
Joseph Rushton Wakeling via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com
wrote:
On 29/05/14 16:47, Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d wrote:
javax was the experimental branch for Java's experimental code. Now
javax.xml is PERMANENT.
Point taken. That
On Thu, 29 May 2014 20:55:32 +
Dicebot via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote:
I have discussed this with Andrei shortly after he has merged PR
that adds `std.experimental` to Phobos. Looks like he actually
thinks about it as `std.staging` - place for almost complete
Phobos
On 5/29/2014 6:28 PM, Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d wrote:
If we make it clear up front that our policy is that nothing will stay in
std.experimental permanently (at some point, either it gets moved into std in
one form or another or it gets removed entirely), we explicitly state that the
On Thu, 29 May 2014 19:46:38 -0700
Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote:
On 5/29/2014 6:28 PM, Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d wrote:
If we make it clear up front that our policy is that nothing will
stay in std.experimental permanently (at some point, either
std.experimintal is helpfull and I rejoy about.
But I think, we can have better place as subpackage.
I wrote some ideas about, but they have sunk in other topic.
http://forum.dlang.org/thread/ljrm0d$28vf$1...@digitalmars.com?page=16#post-mdhlmsxfzaelpdgwfbfh:40forum.dlang.org
On Thursday, 29 May 2014 at 07:55:26 UTC, David Nadlinger wrote:
Hi all,
There seems to have been some discussion regarding
std.experimental at DConf, as several proposals to add modules
to it have popped up over the last few days. Maybe Andrei's
keynote had something on it (I unfortunately
On 5/29/14, 6:50 AM, Wyatt wrote:
On Thursday, 29 May 2014 at 13:34:26 UTC, Joseph Rushton Wakeling via
Digitalmars-d wrote:
Minor point -- is it really going to be the clunky std.experimental,
or is it going to be something elegant like exp.* ... ?
I would prefer the latter. :-)
I think I
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