Proposition: Flash isn't Evil. (or Good.) It's just a technology.
What we're really talking about, generically, are Rich Internet
Applications. Which basically describes a client app that can run
almost anywhere, has all the pluses of a browser based app, but is
better at doing things like
fuzzyT Wrote:
Proposition: Flash isn't Evil. (or Good.) It's just a technology.
yabut.
This is a bit like the argument guns don't kill people, people kill
people.
Or radar detectors don't make people speed, they still have that
choice.
In this case, flash doesn't make poorly coded,
On 7/11/06, Michaelwagner
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
fuzzyT Wrote:
Proposition: Flash isn't Evil. (or Good.) It's just a technology.
(snip)
In this case, flash doesn't make poorly coded, inappropriate
interfaces, people do.
I know Flash/the gun/the radar detector didn't have a mind of it's
Jacob Potter Wrote:
There are two different Flashes here: the Windows design app, and the
player / format (ECMAscript-plus-vector-graphics-engine.) Jacob
Oh, thanks, Jacob. I didn't know that. That would explain a lot. Like
why people are talking about this thing in glowing terms ...
--
Michaelwagner Wrote:
In the case of Flash, it enables people who know absolutely nothing
about human factors and user interface design, and who haven't taken
the time to even attempt to learn any, to build (awful) working
interfaces quickly.
Call me a Luddite, but enabling people to turn
Michaelwagner Wrote:
Oh, thanks, Jacob. I didn't know that. That would explain a lot. Like
why people are talking about this thing in glowing terms ...
I believe that they are the same. The difference is that OpenLazlo
creates Flash SWF files from XML and most SWF files for web pages are
CardinalFang Wrote:
Or do you think that when they see how easy it is to build stuff they'll
just go crazy?
No, I don't believe Slim will do a poor job.
Perhaps I was reaching back too far in the thread for forum memory.
I was explaining why I have a knee-jerk reaction to Flash, and why I
Michaelwagner Wrote:
No, I don't believe Slim will do a poor job.
Perhaps I was reaching back too far in the thread for forum memory.
I was explaining why I have a knee-jerk reaction to Flash, and why I
have a hard time considering it a real development environment.
No doubt good
You should have a look at the OpenLazlo project as was suggested - it's
pretty cool.
Michaelwagner just _will_ love that spinning clock :-)
--
Michael
---
Help translate SlimServer by using the
StringEditor Plugin
mherger Wrote:
Michaelwagner just _will_ love that spinning clock :-)
It really is worth looking through the Lazlo in ten minutes pages, I
wish I had come across this tool earlier! It almost lays out all the
ground work for building a Flash interface to SlimServer, graphics,
buttons
mherger Wrote:
Michaelwagner just _will_ love that spinning clock :-)
oh, oh. I'm already nervous.
--
Michaelwagner
Michaelwagner's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=428
View this thread:
Michaelwagner wrote:
I was explaining why I have a knee-jerk reaction to Flash, and why I
have a hard time considering it a real development environment.
No doubt good work can be implemented in flash.
Many Slimdevices users are already familiar with good Flash design: the
Pandora music
mherger Wrote:
Michaelwagner just _will_ love that spinning clock :-)
Good call. I could do without it.
The fact that it acts like a regular clock once it has been warmed up
(or should I say wound up) is fine.
The fact that it starts at noon and advances itself whenever you go to
the page is
Anyone know where the name Laszlo comes from?
With that spelling, it's a Hungarian mans first name, but no one on the
project seems the least bit Hungarian by last name, so is it all a big
co-incidence?
--
Michaelwagner
Michaelwagner wrote:
I was explaining why I have a knee-jerk reaction to Flash, and why I
have a hard time considering it a real development environment.
Your reaction is understandable, but you might just as well denigrate
HTML, Photoshop or the printing press. They're just authoring
fuzzyT Wrote:
Up until more recent versions the Flash tools consisted of two pieces:
Flash Studio and Flash Player.
...
After some time, the makers seemed to realize that these application UI
capabilities would be much more valuable than the animation
capabilities.
funkstar Wrote:
Agreed, there are much better technologies out there that don't rely an
bloated wasteful plugins like Flash. I believe there is a lot of Web
2.0/AJAX conversiion going on with 6.5. although i could be wrong on
that score (wouldn't be the first time :)
Sorry, but I don't
CardinalFang Wrote:
I would use it in preference to the current clunky solution anyday.
AJAX may help with some refreshes, but it is still having to go back to
the server for state information. And it will still look like an
afterthought, like the current implementation does.
And a
CardinalFang Wrote:
My main point if you look back is that Flash allows professional
designers to do their thing, which is create great interfaces.
Perhaps. I've never looked to see how flash designs are laid out.
I only see what people do with it.
Since it's beginning, it's been used to
Michaelwagner Wrote:
If, while I was busy trying to block yet another manifestation of it,
Flash has grown up and actually has a real use other than irritating
the hell out of me, I hope I can be excused for missing the
announcement.
If you are going to write off useful technology just
Michaelwagner Wrote:
I don't see anything that would prevent an Ajax implementation (or
indeed the current web implementation) from being more graphical.
Graphical and responsive are entirely different issues.
Yes, I agree entirely, but try asking a graphics artist to create a
highly
CardinalFang Wrote:
If you are going to write off useful technology just because it has been
sometime misused
*Sometime?* How about every single time for the last 5 years?
I don't game, maybe flash is useful there, but otherwise, I've never,
*ever*, seen a flash implementation of anything
On Sun, Jul 09, 2006 at 08:52:12AM -0700, CardinalFang wrote:
|
|I won't say any more either, but then again I didn't call Flash bloated
|and wasteful, I just asked a question as why it is sneered at when it
|does a damn fine job. I have no allegience to any technology, I just
|don't dismiss any
From a personal stand point i have yet to see a Flash interface that was
actually usable, and i used to work with a Flash developer (he was
neither a designer or programmer, *bad* combination :). Also on another
forum i haunt there was a Flash banner ad for SkyHD then ground state of
the art
On 7/9/06, funkstar
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
EDIT: another down side of Flash is that any developer wanting to
contribute to its development will need a licenced copy. also who knows
how this will work with the SlimDevices SVN code base. I'm guessing you
would have to check out the latest
has anyone looked into the Google toolkit?
http://code.google.com/webtoolkit/
Hard to say how well it would fit in with slimserver, or how hard it
might be to make a standard toolkit to use with slimserver skins, much
like 6.5 has started with the cmdwrappers and hreftemplate.
I found it
CardinalFang Wrote:
Yes, I agree entirely, but try asking a graphics artist to create a
highly functional, attractive UI with superior affordance and give them
a text editor and a book on JavaScript and XML.
Graphic designers shouldn't be designing interfaces - they know what
looks good
Michaelwagner Wrote:
Oh, please, not flash. I thought the web interface was bad enough, but
flash on top of it? gag me with a spoon!
Agreed, there are much better technologies out there that don't rely an
bloated wasteful plugins like Flash. I believe there is a lot of Web
2.0/AJAX conversiion
From the little I read of Ben's work with Ajax (see the thread called
something like Ajax is the next black), this shows some promise.
But I'm still not convinced web pages and web servers are the
conceptually right way to drive something like Slim.
Web pages, with their essentially stateless
What Ajax gains you, in brief, is 1) the ability to send requests *in
the background* to slimserver (this is the A in ajax), thus returning
the control to the user even while waiting for a server response, and 2)
the ability to manipulate specific elements on a page without doing a
full refresh
Ben, since you've done most of the work on this, you'd be the best
expert.
By the time you've done all that, it sounds like you wrote an app
already and the simplicity of a web page is gone.
So at that point, is there still a benefit over just writing an app and
ditch the browser?
--
Michaelwagner Wrote:
So at that point, is there still a benefit over just writing an app and
ditch the browser?
Providing a browser can handle the Java, XML, CSS etc. used in the
page, the interface can be used on *any* platform. this means no
compiling, cross compiling etc. instant support.
On 7/8/06, funkstar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Michaelwagner Wrote: So at that point, is there still a benefit over just writing an app and
ditch the browser?Providing a browser can handle the Java, XML, CSS etc. used in thepage, the interface can be used on *any* platform. this means nocompiling,
funkstar Wrote:
Providing a browser can handle the Java, XML, CSS etc. used in the page,
the interface can be used on *any* platform. this means no compiling,
cross compiling etc. instant support.
Also there is no need to install or setup the software on any device
you want to use the
Michaelwagner Wrote:
I'm not suggesting Slim drop support for the web interface. Clearly it
has it's advantages. But also it's disadvantages.
I wasn't suggesting, as your next paragraph did, a compiled app. Just a
perl app, delivered the way the current perl app is. Only as a separate
Wow, the first line jumped right out at me:
I don't get why some audiophiles still think that saving data using a
lossless compression scheme like FLAC or Apple Lossless sounds any
different than an uncompressed CD file, says Sonos founder and VP of
Sales and Marketing Thomas S. Cullen
see, personally i wish more audio companies would talk this way, its
nice to seepeople not babbling on about audio gobbldy gook magic pixie
ideas instead of mathematical/scientific facts.
would you rather him tell you that lossless is a lie and certain
hardrives sound better than others?
--
What part turned you off? Do you think there is a difference?On 7/7/06, Mark Lanctot
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Wow, the first line jumped right out at me:I don't get why some audiophiles still think that saving data using a lossless compression scheme like FLAC or Apple Lossless sounds any
Please ignore my off-the-cuff post. I deleted it
from the forum but once it's out on the mailing
list it's too late.
I thought no one would comment on it but I guess I
was wrong.
Anyway, I thought they were referring to the
difference between lossy, compressed formats like
MP3 and lossless
50% compression ratio? I don't think so. Closer to 30%.
--
dwc
dwc's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1892
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=25321
was the fact that Sonos seem to operate a quiet work environment. Here
at Slim, there's usually music or radio of some sort going somewhere in
the office at any point in time. It certainly reminds me of why we do
what we do every day.
--
Jez
Jez Hildred
Senior Manager - Sales Marketing
Slim
mbonsack Wrote:
Interesting read with photos:
http://www.stereophile.com/news/062606sonos/
I have to give it to them - the remote is the killer. Without it,
they're an also-ran, with it, they have the coolest looking product. If
Slim came out with something like that, I'd put them throughout
CardinalFang Wrote:
I have to give it to them - the remote is the killer. Without it,
they're an also-ran, with it, they have the coolest looking product. If
Slim came out with something like that, I'd put them throughout my
house. Without it, the rest of my family just find it too geeky and
azinck3 Wrote:
Haha, so I was with you 'til the bit about the Jags...
Thats's what I always believed, but look at the Top Gear surveys,
they're at the top and the German brands are way down - Jaguar have
reversed their bad reputation. I have a Merc and I followed a new XK
today, I'd swap in a
Stereophile Wrote:
Sonos reminds us that the Sonos warranty is void if you open up any of
the Sonos hardware.
The fact that the Slim Dev CEO regularly contributes to modification
discussions gives them the edge in audiophile credibility- IMHO.
--
Skunk
CardinalFang Wrote:
if Slim would switch to Flash for the server interface
Oh, please, not flash. I thought the web interface was bad enough, but
flash on top of it? gag me with a spoon!
--
Michaelwagner
Michaelwagner's
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