Re: [Distutils] Surviving a Compromise of PyPI - PEP 458 and 480

2015-01-02 Thread Donald Stufft
On Jan 2, 2015, at 3:21 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On 2 January 2015 at 16:38, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io mailto:don...@stufft.io wrote: On Jan 2, 2015, at 1:33 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com mailto:ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: That's the part I meant - the

Re: [Distutils] Surviving a Compromise of PyPI - PEP 458 and 480

2015-01-02 Thread Donald Stufft
On Jan 2, 2015, at 7:45 AM, Paul Moore p.f.mo...@gmail.com wrote: On 2 January 2015 at 11:21, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote: To be clear, there is zero delay in being able to publish a new project, the delay is between moving from a new project being validated by an online key to an

Re: [Distutils] Surviving a Compromise of PyPI - PEP 458 and 480

2015-01-02 Thread Paul Moore
On 2 January 2015 at 11:21, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote: To be clear, there is zero delay in being able to publish a new project, the delay is between moving from a new project being validated by an online key to an offline key. OK, got it. Although on the terminology front, I don't

Re: [Distutils] Surviving a Compromise of PyPI - PEP 458 and 480

2015-01-02 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 2 January 2015 at 16:38, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote: On Jan 2, 2015, at 1:33 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: That's the part I meant - the signing of developer keys to delegate trust to them without needing to trust the integrity of the online PyPI service. Hence

Re: [Distutils] Surviving a Compromise of PyPI - PEP 458 and 480

2015-01-02 Thread Donald Stufft
On Jan 2, 2015, at 6:04 AM, Paul Moore p.f.mo...@gmail.com wrote: On 2 January 2015 at 06:38, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote: Developer keys get signed by offline keys controlled by I’m guessing either myself or Richard or both. One thought here. The issue being discussed here

Re: [Distutils] Surviving a Compromise of PyPI - PEP 458 and 480

2015-01-02 Thread Paul Moore
On 2 January 2015 at 06:38, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote: Developer keys get signed by offline keys controlled by I’m guessing either myself or Richard or both. One thought here. The issue being discussed here seems mainly to be that it's hard to manage signing of developer keys. That's

Re: [Distutils] Surviving a Compromise of PyPI - PEP 458 and 480

2015-01-02 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 2 January 2015 at 18:57, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote: I have concerns about the actual feasibility of doing such a thing, some of which are similar to my concerns with doing non-mandatory PEP 480. * If uploading to a verifier service is optional then a significant portion of

Re: [Distutils] Surviving a Compromise of PyPI - PEP 458 and 480

2015-01-02 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 3 January 2015 at 00:25, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote: On Dec 10, 2014, at 10:16 PM, Vladimir Diaz vladimir.v.d...@gmail.com wrote: Hello everyone, I am a research programmer at the NYU School of Engineering. My colleagues (Trishank Kuppusamy and Justin Cappos) and I are

Re: [Distutils] Surviving a Compromise of PyPI - PEP 458 and 480

2015-01-02 Thread Donald Stufft
On Dec 10, 2014, at 10:16 PM, Vladimir Diaz vladimir.v.d...@gmail.com wrote: Hello everyone, I am a research programmer at the NYU School of Engineering. My colleagues (Trishank Kuppusamy and Justin Cappos) and I are requesting community feedback on our proposal, Surviving a

Re: [Distutils] Surviving a Compromise of PyPI - PEP 458 and 480

2015-01-02 Thread Paul Moore
On 2 January 2015 at 14:25, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote: I’m going through the PEPs again, and I think that evaluating these PEPs is more complicated by the fact that there is two of them, I agree that splitting up the two PEPs was the right thing to do though. What do you think about

Re: [Distutils] Surviving a Compromise of PyPI - PEP 458 and 480

2015-01-02 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 3 January 2015 at 01:31, Paul Moore p.f.mo...@gmail.com wrote: On 2 January 2015 at 14:25, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote: Either way though, I suggest focus on PEP 458 (with an eye towards not making any decisions which will require changes on the client side to implement PEP

Re: [Distutils] Surviving a Compromise of PyPI - PEP 458 and 480

2015-01-02 Thread Donald Stufft
On Jan 2, 2015, at 10:51 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: Getting them to manage additional keys, and get them signed and registered appropriately, and then supplying them is going to be a similar amount of work, and the purpose is far more cryptic and confusing. My proposal is

Re: [Distutils] Surviving a Compromise of PyPI - PEP 458 and 480

2015-01-02 Thread Donald Stufft
On Jan 2, 2015, at 9:55 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: I just don't personally have any major open questions for PEP 458 - while I'm aware there are some significant technical details to be resolved in terms of exactly what gets signed, and how the implementation will work in

Re: [Distutils] problem viewing pep 440 docs on mobile

2015-01-02 Thread Marcus Smith
yes, I see a similar bug on android. If I try to scroll up a *little*, it goes all the back to the top. On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 7:39 AM, Chris Jerdonek chris.jerdo...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry if this isn't the best list on which to bring this up, but it came up for me during the recent PEP 440

[Distutils] problem viewing pep 440 docs on mobile

2015-01-02 Thread Chris Jerdonek
Sorry if this isn't the best list on which to bring this up, but it came up for me during the recent PEP 440 discussions. For a while I've noticed a serious problem when viewing PEP doc pages like the following on my iPhone: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0440/ It's a bit maddening, so I

Re: [Distutils] Surviving a Compromise of PyPI - PEP 458 and 480

2015-01-02 Thread Vladimir Diaz
Thanks for the great feedback - Nick, Donald, Paul, and Richard (off-list). I am totally fine with focusing on PEP 458 and applying the final coat of paint on this document. There's a lot of background documentation and technical details excluded from the PEPs (to avoid turning the PEP into a

Re: [Distutils] problem viewing pep 440 docs on mobile

2015-01-02 Thread Donald Stufft
On Jan 2, 2015, at 11:07 AM, Marcus Smith qwc...@gmail.com wrote: yes, I see a similar bug on android. If I try to scroll up a *little*, it goes all the back to the top. On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 7:39 AM, Chris Jerdonek chris.jerdo...@gmail.com mailto:chris.jerdo...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry

Re: [Distutils] Surviving a Compromise of PyPI - PEP 458 and 480

2015-01-02 Thread Paul Moore
On 2 January 2015 at 16:14, Vladimir Diaz vladimir.v.d...@gmail.com wrote: There's a lot of background documentation and technical details excluded from the PEPs (to avoid turning the PEP into a 15+ page behemoth), but I do agree that we should explicitly cover some of these implementation

Re: [Distutils] Surviving a Compromise of PyPI - PEP 458 and 480

2015-01-02 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 3 January 2015 at 02:12, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote: On Jan 2, 2015, at 10:51 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: Getting them to manage additional keys, and get them signed and registered appropriately, and then supplying them is going to be a similar amount of work,

Re: [Distutils] Surviving a Compromise of PyPI - PEP 458 and 480

2015-01-02 Thread Vladimir Diaz
I prefer pulling the TUF PEPs (available on hg.python.org) into github.com/pypa. Please add Justin, Linda, Trishank, and myself as collaborators: https://github.com/vladimir-v-diaz https://github.com/dachshund https://github.com/JustinCappos https://github.com/lvigdor P.S. Donald helped

Re: [Distutils] Surviving a Compromise of PyPI - PEP 458 and 480

2015-01-02 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 3 January 2015 at 02:26, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote: On Jan 2, 2015, at 11:14 AM, Vladimir Diaz vladimir.v.d...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the great feedback - Nick, Donald, Paul, and Richard (off-list). I am totally fine with focusing on PEP 458 and applying the final coat

Re: [Distutils] Surviving a Compromise of PyPI - PEP 458 and 480

2015-01-02 Thread Donald Stufft
On Jan 2, 2015, at 11:14 AM, Vladimir Diaz vladimir.v.d...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the great feedback - Nick, Donald, Paul, and Richard (off-list). I am totally fine with focusing on PEP 458 and applying the final coat of paint on this document. There's a lot of background

Re: [Distutils] Surviving a Compromise of PyPI - PEP 458 and 480

2015-01-02 Thread Donald Stufft
On Jan 2, 2015, at 11:47 AM, Vladimir Diaz vladimir.v.d...@gmail.com wrote: I prefer pulling the TUF PEPs (available on hg.python.org http://hg.python.org/) into github.com/pypa http://github.com/pypa. Please add Justin, Linda, Trishank, and myself as collaborators:

Re: [Distutils] Last call for feedback: PEP 440 exclusive ordered comparison fix

2015-01-02 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 31 December 2014 at 13:52, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: Donald is keen to get the updated versions of packaging/pip/setuptools out that fix the regression in handling exclusive ordered comparison, so this is a last call for feedback on those changes before we publish the updated

Re: [Distutils] Last call for feedback: PEP 440 exclusive ordered comparison fix

2015-01-02 Thread Donald Stufft
On Jan 2, 2015, at 9:49 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On 31 December 2014 at 13:52, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com mailto:ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: Donald is keen to get the updated versions of packaging/pip/setuptools out that fix the regression in handling exclusive