On 27 August 2013 00:15, PJ Eby p...@telecommunity.com wrote:
You pounced on a tiny piece of my email to Paul, in which I mainly
expressed confusion about his statements about cost. I was having
trouble understanding what sort of costs he meant, and in subsequent
discussion realized that
On 27 August 2013 17:01, Paul Moore p.f.mo...@gmail.com wrote:
On 27 August 2013 00:15, PJ Eby p...@telecommunity.com wrote:
You pounced on a tiny piece of my email to Paul, in which I mainly
expressed confusion about his statements about cost. I was having
trouble understanding what sort of
On 27 August 2013 10:00, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
Just to scare people though... I did come up with a potentially decent
use case for .pth files: they're actually a reasonable solution for
sharing distributions between virtual environments in a way that works
cross platform and
Nick Coghlan ncoghlan at gmail.com writes:
Just to scare people though... I did come up with a potentially decent
use case for .pth files: they're actually a reasonable solution for
sharing distributions between virtual environments in a way that works
cross platform and on all currently used
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On 08/27/2013 05:00 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
PJE and Jason were probably the only other current distutils-sig
participants familiar enough with setuptools and pkg_resources to
understand the distinction between that aspect, the default version
On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 3:01 AM, Paul Moore p.f.mo...@gmail.com wrote:
On 27 August 2013 00:15, PJ Eby p...@telecommunity.com wrote:
None of these things is wrong. It is *spreading* FUD (and in particular,
doing so cynically to undermine a proposal) that is wrong, and I hope I
didn't do that -
On 28 Aug 2013 01:25, Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com wrote:
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On 08/27/2013 05:00 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
PJE and Jason were probably the only other current distutils-sig
participants familiar enough with setuptools and pkg_resources to
From: Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io
I think I am against this.
Part of the beauty of Wheel is that it is simply a package format. This means
it does not need to concern itself with situations that Egg had to which bloat
the spec and make it harder to implement. I feel like tacking too
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 5:20 AM, Paul Moore p.f.mo...@gmail.com wrote:
On 25 August 2013 23:14, PJ Eby p...@telecommunity.com wrote:
Unless I'm missing something, I suspect that this over-counts the number
of
people using multi-version, in the sense that many (the majority?) of
wrapper
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 5:20 AM, Paul Moore p.f.mo...@gmail.com wrote:
On 25 August 2013 23:14, PJ Eby p...@telecommunity.com wrote:
Thus, you don't have to know you have multiple versions installed; it
can trivially happen by way of dependencies you aren't paying
attention to. The more
PJ Eby pje at telecommunity.com writes:
That is all easy_install does: add a naming convention for the
directories, and automate the sys.path manipulation.
Buildout does the same thing, it just writes the sys.path manipulation
into the scripts statically, instead of using pkg_resources at
On Aug 26, 2013, at 10:33 AM, PJ Eby p...@telecommunity.com wrote:
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 5:20 AM, Paul Moore p.f.mo...@gmail.com wrote:
On 25 August 2013 23:14, PJ Eby p...@telecommunity.com wrote:
Thus, you don't have to know you have multiple versions installed; it
can trivially happen
Just to add a bit more FUD ;-)
I do a lot of packaging things up with py2app, py2exe, etc. -- I find
I often want to be able to give folks one thing that they can
install and run, and I'd rather they don't even need to know it's
built with python.
A while back, when I was doing this with a web
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote:
There is always a cost. In this case mostly in complexity and start up time.
As you mentioned originally the cost to multi version support was the need
to use a require() function and when people complained about that you
PJE:
Thanks for the clarification: based on that: +1 on Nick's proposal.
Chris
On Aug 26, 2013, at 1:41 PM, PJ Eby p...@telecommunity.com wrote:
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote:
There is always a cost. In this case mostly in complexity and start up
On Aug 26, 2013, at 4:40 PM, PJ Eby p...@telecommunity.com wrote:
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote:
There is always a cost. In this case mostly in complexity and start up time.
As you mentioned originally the cost to multi version support was the need
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 5:59 PM, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote:
I think you're confused. The only comments I see in this thread are people
doing
due diligence to ensure that Nick's proposal *didn't* include the parts of
setuptools
that we felt were incurring a cost against people not
Daniel Holth wrote:
I would like to see some consideration given to what Ruby and npm do,
which is to place what we are calling dists into a special directory
that only contains dists /somedir/distname-1.0/... rather than placing
them as specially named objects on the normal search path.
What
On Aug 25, 2013, at 1:57 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
[snip]
I'll look at this closer, my off the cuff response isn't good but before I
commit to a side I want to dig into how it actually works currently.
-
Donald Stufft
PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B
On 25 August 2013 16:41, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote:
On Aug 25, 2013, at 1:57 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
[snip]
I'll look at this closer, my off the cuff response isn't good but before I
commit to a side I want to dig into how it actually works currently.
The
On Aug 25, 2013, at 3:06 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
On 25 August 2013 16:41, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote:
On Aug 25, 2013, at 1:57 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
[snip]
I'll look at this closer, my off the cuff response isn't good but before I
On 25 August 2013 06:57, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm currently working on the docs for the __main__.__requires__
feature of pkg_resources, and have been generally poking around inside
pkg_resources before I started on that. It gave me an idea for a
question that has come up a
On Aug 25, 2013, at 4:02 AM, Paul Moore p.f.mo...@gmail.com wrote:
My main concern is that for people who *don't* need multi-versioning, or who
only use it for one or two special cases, there is no detrimental impact on
user interface or runtime (the if you don't use it, you don't pay for
Nick Coghlan ncoghlan at gmail.com writes:
1. An option (or options) to pip, telling it to just drop a wheel file
(or the unpacked contents of the wheel as a directory) into
site-packages instead of installing the distribution directly as the
default version. The root_is_purelib setting in
On 25 August 2013 10:58, Vinay Sajip vinay_sa...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Nick Coghlan ncoghlan at gmail.com writes:
1. An option (or options) to pip, telling it to just drop a wheel file
(or the unpacked contents of the wheel as a directory) into
site-packages instead of installing the
On 25 August 2013 21:02, Paul Moore p.f.mo...@gmail.com wrote:
Essentially, that is my question - and I'd like to know what Nick's proposal
is here because I am not happy with the existing pkg_resources solution of
using .pth files. I know there's a new feature being discussed on import-sig
On Aug 25, 2013, at 1:57 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm currently working on the docs for the __main__.__requires__
feature of pkg_resources, and have been generally poking around inside
pkg_resources before I started on that. It gave me an idea for a
question that has come
On 25 August 2013 14:07, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote:
As far as I can tell there's nothing preventing Installing a Wheel *into*
and .egg
directory which will give you exactly the same situation as you have today
without needing to do *anything* except make a tool that will install a
On Aug 25, 2013, at 10:00 AM, Paul Moore p.f.mo...@gmail.com wrote:
As regards Nick's proposal:
1. An option (or options) to pip, telling it to just drop a wheel file (or
the unpacked contents of the wheel as a directory) into site-packages instead
of installing the distribution
On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 1:57 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm currently working on the docs for the __main__.__requires__
feature of pkg_resources, and have been generally poking around inside
pkg_resources before I started on that. It gave me an idea for a
question that has come
On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 12:58 PM, Jim Fulton j...@zope.com wrote:
On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 3:06 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
The clumsiness of the __main__.__requires__ workaround aside, the main
advantage this offers is that it *should* result in a relatively
straightforward
On 26 Aug 2013 05:53, PJ Eby p...@telecommunity.com wrote:
On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 12:58 PM, Jim Fulton j...@zope.com wrote:
On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 3:06 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com
wrote:
The clumsiness of the __main__.__requires__ workaround aside, the main
advantage this offers
On 26 Aug 2013 07:00, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote:
On Aug 25, 2013, at 4:51 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
Anyway, I like Paul's suggestion of defining a specific runtime format
for this, even if it's just wheel layout plus a RECORD file. I'm
currently thinking of using
On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 5:21 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
On 26 Aug 2013 07:00, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote:
On Aug 25, 2013, at 4:51 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
Anyway, I like Paul's suggestion of defining a specific runtime format
for this, even if
On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Paul Moore p.f.mo...@gmail.com wrote:
On 25 August 2013 20:53, PJ Eby p...@telecommunity.com wrote:
FWIW, I would also note that if you use easy_install to install
anything, you are quite possibly using multi-version installs without
realizing it. (The
I'm currently working on the docs for the __main__.__requires__
feature of pkg_resources, and have been generally poking around inside
pkg_resources before I started on that. It gave me an idea for a
question that has come up a few times: how should we support parallel
installation of multiple
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