On Tue, 4/2/14, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> No hearing? You haven't answered *any* of our technical
> objections, instead dismissing them all as irrelevant.
Because you advanced no specific technical objections,
instead invoking generalisations. If you prefer the status quo
because it's easier to ex
On 5 February 2014 02:25, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Feb 05, 2014, at 01:05 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>
>>That only works if the system site packages is configured to be
>>visible inside the virtual environment - it usually isn't these days.
>
> Really? I do this all the time. It prevents downloadin
On 4 February 2014 16:47, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> Playing peacemaker between the "move fast and break things" and "if
> it's less than 5 years old it's still just a fad" schools of thought
> is one of the things that makes packaging so "interesting" ;)
:-)
+1 QOTW
Paul
___
On 5 February 2014 01:59, Vinay Sajip wrote:
> On Tue, 4/2/14, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>
>> Vinay, please let it drop.
>
>> You accuse us of FUD, yet have presented no evidence that
>> your approach works flawlessly across multiple versions of
>> Fedora, Debian, openSUSE, RHEL, CentOS, Debian, Ubuntu
On Feb 05, 2014, at 01:05 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>That only works if the system site packages is configured to be
>visible inside the virtual environment - it usually isn't these days.
Really? I do this all the time. It prevents downloading gobs of stuff from
PyPI that my system already provid
On Tue, 4/2/14, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> Vinay, please let it drop.
> You accuse us of FUD, yet have presented no evidence that
> your approach works flawlessly across multiple versions of
> Fedora, Debian, openSUSE, RHEL, CentOS, Debian, Ubuntu,
> Windows, Mac OS X, etc,
I merely asked for a hear
On 5 February 2014 01:48, Vinay Sajip wrote:
> On Tue, 4/2/14, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>
>> That only works if the system site packages is configured to
>> be visible inside the virtual environment - it usually isn't
>> these days.
>
> If that were true, distil wouldn't work in such venvs, but it see
On Tue, 4/2/14, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> That only works if the system site packages is configured to
> be visible inside the virtual environment - it usually isn't
> these days.
If that were true, distil wouldn't work in such venvs, but it seems
to work fine. Can you show otherwise?
Regards,
Vin
On 4 February 2014 14:33, Vinay Sajip wrote:
> You've just restated "scary dark corners" in a different way which
> sounds like there's more to it technically. But there' s still no hard
> data on the table!
But I specifically stated that the hard data has been *lost* and the
only remaining evide
On 5 February 2014 00:33, Vinay Sajip wrote:
> def main():
> if '-e' found in sys.argv:
> validate the passed parameter, prepare a new command line
> using the interpreter from the venv and the sys.argv passed in,
> but minus the -e bit, since we've dealt with that here
On 5 February 2014 01:00, Vinay Sajip wrote:
> As I said above, distil respects venv isolation: if a venv is
> isolated from system site-packages, then distil code run with -e
> can't see system site-packages, automatically, without any
> "careful ensuring" being necessary. So from what I can see,
On Tue, 4/2/14, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> I'm not sure how I can explain it more clearly, but I'll try.
[snip]
I understood the scenarios you outlined.
> I'm not saying what you want to do *can't* be done (it obviously can).
> I'm saying it adds additional complexity, because you're adding a
> seco
On 5 February 2014 00:33, Vinay Sajip wrote:
> On Tue, 4/2/14, Paul Moore wrote:
>
>> The big problem with this type of thing is that pip tends to be used
>> on lots of systems with sometimes *extremely* obscure and odd
>> setups - what some of the Linux distros do to a standard Python
>> install
On Tue, 4/2/14, Paul Moore wrote:
> The big problem with this type of thing is that pip tends to be used
> on lots of systems with sometimes *extremely* obscure and odd
> setups - what some of the Linux distros do to a standard Python
> install amazes me (I'm sure they have good reasons, of cours
On 5 February 2014 00:00, Vinay Sajip wrote:
> On Tue, 4/2/14, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>
>> It's a higher level of isolation than that offered by *not* installing
>> pip into the virtual environments - the two approaches are
>> *not* equivalent, and one is *not* clearly superior to the other,
>> but
On Tue, 4/2/14, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> It's a higher level of isolation than that offered by *not* installing
> pip into the virtual environments - the two approaches are
> *not* equivalent, and one is *not* clearly superior to the other,
> but rather there are pros and cons to both.
Obviously th
On 4 February 2014 09:23, Vinay Sajip wrote:
> To me, the correct solution would have been to isolate the bug and
> remove it, but I completely understand the pragmatic approach you
> took. But that leaves a "dark corner" where people might be afraid
> to experiment in this area with pip, because
Fedora 19 still ships pip 1.3.1. Fedora 20 ships pip 1.4.1. Fedora 21
will probably ship 1.5.2 (although that hasn't actually happened yet,
so Rawhide still has 1.4.1).
The relative alignment of the release cycles is such that the pip
version system Python will always be about 6 months behind upst
On Tue, 4/2/14, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> I've pointed out the technical problem with trying to rely solely
> on a global install on Linux: it makes it hard to use a newer version
> of pip than the OS provides. Installing pip into the virtual
> environments avoids that problem without conflicting wit
On 4 February 2014 19:23, Vinay Sajip wrote:
>
> It's not especially elegant to have to restart in a venv, but IMO it's the
> lesser of two "evils". It is something that we currently have to do
> (virtualenv does it too, with -p) but if a more elegant approach were
> found, I'd certainly use it. T
Carl Meyer oddbird.net> writes:
> Sadly I can't offer that specific problem, because AFAIK we never
> tracked it down. It was a recurring problem in IRC where people would
> report using -E and pip would fail to take its action within the
After posting my first response to your post, I remembere
On Tue, 4/2/14, Carl Meyer wrote:
> Sadly I can't offer that specific problem, because AFAIK we never
> tracked it down. It was a recurring problem in IRC where people
> would report using -E and pip would fail to take its action within
> the indicated virtualenv, instead impacting their global e
Hi Vinay,
On 02/01/2014 09:25 AM, Vinay Sajip wrote:
> On Sat, 1/2/14, Donald Stufft wrote:
>> So perhaps it isn't that pip is lacking a useful feature, it's that
>> pip tried it, as you did with distil, and due to pip's much larger
>> user base it got a much more thorough real world experience
>
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