Re: [Distutils] setup_requires for dev environments

On 16 March 2015 at 11:05, Robert Collins wrote: > PEP 426 addresses build requirements for distributions of Python code, > but doesn't directly help with development environments. It's supposed to, but updating the relevant section of the PEP has been lingering on my todo list for a while now. S

Re: [Distutils] Installing a file into sitepackages

Hi All    This, and another memory-leak bug were triggered by the sandbox.   Would it be possible to either add an API to exempt files, or just allow writing within site packages, even if just for .pth files ? I'm monkey patching around these for now https://github.com/stuaxo/vext/blob/master/se

Re: [Distutils] setup_requires for dev environments

> On Mar 15, 2015, at 9:05 PM, Robert Collins wrote: > > PEP 426 addresses build requirements for distributions of Python code, > but doesn't directly help with development environments. > > It seems to me that if we help development environments, that would be > nice - and any explicit metadat

Re: [Distutils] setup_requires for dev environments

We could support this syntax right now. It's so simple. Don't deride it as a pseudo standard, turn it into an actual standard and praise it as something practical that will not take years to implement. Then after those years have passed and the new PEP actually works and has a distutils replacement

Re: [Distutils] setup_requires for dev environments

> On Mar 16, 2015, at 11:24 AM, Daniel Holth wrote: > > We could support this syntax right now. It's so simple. Don't deride > it as a pseudo standard, turn it into an actual standard and praise it > as something practical that will not take years to implement. Then > after those years have pass

Re: [Distutils] setup_requires for dev environments

Problem: Users would like to be able to import stuff in setup.py. This could be anything from a version fetcher to a replacement for distutils itself. However, if setup.py is the only place to specify these requirements there's a bit of a chicken and egg problem, unless they have unusually good set

Re: [Distutils] setup_requires for dev environments

Donald Stufft wrote: > So yea, what's the actual problem that this is attempting to solve? ISTM (whether this is the actual intent or not) that this would be handy to differentiate between the dependencies needed when installing from a wheel vs. an sdist. Daniel's example of setup_requires inclu

Re: [Distutils] setup_requires for dev environments

The problem with a no-stopgaps policy is that the non-stopgap solution has to be incredible to ever be greater than the accrued debt of ((current pain - reduced pain from stopgap) * all python users * years until non-stopgap) - (maintenance/documentation hassle * years since stopgap implemented * e

Re: [Distutils] setup_requires for dev environments

> On Mar 16, 2015, at 12:32 PM, Daniel Holth wrote: > > Problem: Users would like to be able to import stuff in setup.py. This > could be anything from a version fetcher to a replacement for > distutils itself. However, if setup.py is the only place to specify > these requirements there's a bit

Re: [Distutils] setup_requires for dev environments

> On Mar 16, 2015, at 1:04 PM, Daniel Holth wrote: > > The problem with a no-stopgaps policy is that the non-stopgap solution > has to be incredible to ever be greater than the accrued debt of > ((current pain - reduced pain from stopgap) * all python users * years > until non-stopgap) - (mainte

Re: [Distutils] setup_requires for dev environments

On 16 March 2015 at 17:14, Donald Stufft wrote: > The bulk of the effort of pushing the standards, pip, and PyPI through is done > by a handful of people, and of those handful I believe that the largest share > is done by myself. That's not to toot my own horn or any such nonsense but to > simply

Re: [Distutils] setup_requires for dev environments

No one should be asked to learn how to extend distutils, and in practice no one knows how. People have been begging for years for working setup_requires, far longer than I've been interested in it, and all they want to do is import fetch_version setup(version=fetch_version(), ...) Then they will

Re: [Distutils] setup_requires for dev environments

> On Mar 16, 2015, at 2:33 PM, Paul Moore wrote: > > On 16 March 2015 at 17:14, Donald Stufft wrote: >> The bulk of the effort of pushing the standards, pip, and PyPI through is >> done >> by a handful of people, and of those handful I believe that the largest share >> is done by myself. That'

Re: [Distutils] setup_requires for dev environments

> On Mar 16, 2015, at 2:53 PM, Daniel Holth wrote: > > No one should be asked to learn how to extend distutils, and in > practice no one knows how. Some people know how, pytest figured it out, pbr figured it out. There’s some documentation at https://pythonhosted.org/setuptools/setuptools.html

Re: [Distutils] setup_requires for dev environments

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 3:19 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: > >> On Mar 16, 2015, at 2:53 PM, Daniel Holth wrote: >> >> No one should be asked to learn how to extend distutils, and in >> practice no one knows how. > > Some people know how, pytest figured it out, pbr figured it out. There’s > some docum

Re: [Distutils] setup_requires for dev environments

You ought to be able to get away with not supporting it in warehouse, we will surely be able to write legacy .egg-info to sdists indefinitely. On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 3:09 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: > >> On Mar 16, 2015, at 2:33 PM, Paul Moore wrote: >> >> On 16 March 2015 at 17:14, Donald Stufft

Re: [Distutils] setup_requires for dev environments

> On Mar 16, 2015, at 3:32 PM, Daniel Holth wrote: > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 3:19 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: >> >>> On Mar 16, 2015, at 2:53 PM, Daniel Holth wrote: >>> >>> No one should be asked to learn how to extend distutils, and in >>> practice no one knows how. >> >> Some people know

Re: [Distutils] setup_requires for dev environments

On 17 March 2015 at 04:06, Donald Stufft wrote: >> Thoughts? > > I've been thinking about this proposal this morning, and my primary question > is what exactly is the pain that is being caused right now, and how does this > proposal help it? Is the pain that setuptools is doing the installation

Re: [Distutils] setup_requires for dev environments

> On Mar 16, 2015, at 4:04 PM, Robert Collins wrote: > > On 17 March 2015 at 04:06, Donald Stufft wrote: > >>> Thoughts? >> >> I've been thinking about this proposal this morning, and my primary question >> is what exactly is the pain that is being caused right now, and how does this >> propo

Re: [Distutils] setup_requires for dev environments

Yes setup_requires means those dependencies that are needed for setup.py itself to run. On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 4:42 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: > >> On Mar 16, 2015, at 4:04 PM, Robert Collins >> wrote: >> >> On 17 March 2015 at 04:06, Donald Stufft wrote: >> Thoughts? >>> >>> I've been thi

Re: [Distutils] setup_requires for dev environments

On 17 March 2015 at 09:42, Donald Stufft wrote: > .. > A, wait a minute. I think something might have just clicked here. > > You’re expecting/wanting the results of setup_requres to be installed > into the environment itself and not just made available to the setup.py? > That’s not going to wo

Re: [Distutils] setup_requires for dev environments

On 17 Mar 2015 02:33, "Daniel Holth" wrote: > > Problem: Users would like to be able to import stuff in setup.py. This > could be anything from a version fetcher to a replacement for > distutils itself. However, if setup.py is the only place to specify > these requirements there's a bit of a chick

Re: [Distutils] setup_requires for dev environments

On 17 Mar 2015 04:33, "Paul Moore" wrote: > > On 16 March 2015 at 17:14, Donald Stufft wrote: > > The bulk of the effort of pushing the standards, pip, and PyPI through is done > > by a handful of people, and of those handful I believe that the largest share > > is done by myself. That's not to t

Re: [Distutils] setup_requires for dev environments

> On Mar 16, 2015, at 6:35 PM, Robert Collins wrote: > > On 17 March 2015 at 09:42, Donald Stufft wrote: >> > .. >> A, wait a minute. I think something might have just clicked here. >> >> You’re expecting/wanting the results of setup_requres to be installed >> into the environment itself

Re: [Distutils] setup_requires for dev environments

> On Mar 16, 2015, at 7:03 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > > On 17 Mar 2015 02:33, "Daniel Holth" > wrote: > > > > Problem: Users would like to be able to import stuff in setup.py. This > > could be anything from a version fetcher to a replacement for > > distutils itself.

Re: [Distutils] setup_requires for dev environments

On 17 March 2015 at 12:32, Donald Stufft wrote: > > On Mar 16, 2015, at 7:03 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > > On 17 Mar 2015 02:33, "Daniel Holth" wrote: >> >> Problem: Users would like to be able to import stuff in setup.py. This >> could be anything from a version fetcher to a replacement for >>

Re: [Distutils] setup_requires for dev environments

Robert: is it a requirement to you that "python setup.py ..." should install setup_requires? For me I'd be quite happy if installing the requirements was my own problem in the absence of an installer. I would like to start writing my setup.py like this: setup.cfg: setup-requires = waf setup.py:

Re: [Distutils] setup_requires for dev environments

On 17 March 2015 at 12:53, Daniel Holth wrote: > Robert: is it a requirement to you that "python setup.py ..." should > install setup_requires? For me I'd be quite happy if installing the > requirements was my own problem in the absence of an installer. > > I would like to start writing my setup.p

Re: [Distutils] setup_requires for dev environments

On 17 March 2015 at 12:39, Robert Collins wrote: >> I don’t think that’s going to work, because if you only make pip aware of it >> then you break ``python setup.py sdist``, if you make setuptools aware of it >> then you don’t need pip to be aware of it because we’ll get it for free from >> setup

Re: [Distutils] setup_requires for dev environments

On 17 March 2015 at 09:24, Nick Coghlan wrote: > The main bottleneck where PEP 426 is concerned is me, and my current focus > is on Red Hat & Project Atomic (e.g. > http://connect.redhat.com/zones/containers, > https://github.com/projectatomic/adb-atomic-developer-bundle) and the PSF > (e.g. > htt