Re: [dmarc-ietf] Fwd: Priming the Pump for Discussion - Ratchets

2021-07-21 Thread Barry Leiba
>> I don't agree with the characterization of the second group. I would >> say that we are partitioning messages into these two groups: >> - Those for which we can confirm that they originated in the domain >> they say they did. >> - Those for which we can not confirm that. > > When we use P=REJEC

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-21 Thread Matthäus Wander
Alessandro Vesely wrote on 2021-07-21 19:41: Some lists operate the evasion hack, a.k.a. From: munging, only if the sender has p=quarantine or p=reject, some do it unconditionally, some only if the mail is outbound, some only if the receiver is mail.ru. Behavior doesn't seem to be settled yet.

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-21 Thread Alessandro Vesely
On Wed 21/Jul/2021 19:24:35 +0200 Dave Crocker wrote: On 7/21/2021 10:19 AM, John Levine wrote: I suppose we could leave pct=0 as a hint to forwarders to turn on their DMARC evasion hacks. Why doesn't seeing DMARC as seeing that it isn't p=none ought to suffice for that? Some lists operate

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-21 Thread Laura Atkins
> On 21 Jul 2021, at 18:24, Dave Crocker wrote: > > On 7/21/2021 1:28 AM, Laura Atkins wrote: >> This is going to cause difficulties in deployment for a lot of companies and >> domains. Experience tells us that p=quarantine pct=0 detects forwarders and >> other types systems that modify and b

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-21 Thread Laura Atkins
> On 21 Jul 2021, at 18:19, John Levine wrote: > > It appears that Laura Atkins said: >> -=-=-=-=-=- >> >> This is going to cause difficulties in deployment for a lot of companies and >> domains. Experience tells us that p=quarantine pct=0 detects forwarders >> and other types systems that

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-21 Thread Alessandro Vesely
On Wed 21/Jul/2021 10:28:36 +0200 Laura Atkins wrote: [deprecate PCT entirely] is going to cause difficulties in deployment for a lot of companies and domains. Experience tells us that p=quarantine pct=0 detects forwarders and other types systems that modify and break DMARC authentication. These

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-21 Thread Dave Crocker
On 7/21/2021 1:28 AM, Laura Atkins wrote: This is going to cause difficulties in deployment for a lot of companies and domains. Experience tells us that p=quarantine pct=0 detects forwarders and other types systems that modify and break DMARC authentication. These systems are undetectable when

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-21 Thread John Levine
It appears that Laura Atkins said: >-=-=-=-=-=- > >This is going to cause difficulties in deployment for a lot of companies and >domains. Experience tells us that p=quarantine pct=0 detects forwarders >and other types systems that modify and break DMARC authentication. These >systems are undete

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-21 Thread Steve Siirila
At the University of Minnesota we used p=quarantine,pct=0 as a transition between p=none and p=quarantine,pct=100 as it causes header "From:" to be rewritten on DMARC-aware mailing list servers. I agree with Laura Atkins that removing pct=0 will make DMARC implementation more difficult for some or

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Fwd: Priming the Pump for Discussion - Ratchets

2021-07-21 Thread Douglas Foster
Barry's comment: I don't agree with the characterization of the second group. I would say that we are partitioning messages into these two groups: - Those for which we can confirm that they originated in the domain they say they did. - Those for which we can not confirm that. When we use P=REJE

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-21 Thread Laura Atkins
This is going to cause difficulties in deployment for a lot of companies and domains. Experience tells us that p=quarantine pct=0 detects forwarders and other types systems that modify and break DMARC authentication. These systems are undetectable when p=none is in place. I understand and supp