Re: [DNG] Fw: [ale] ALE-Central Meeting Thursday July 16, 2015 @ 7:30pm

On 15/07/2015 06:30, Steve Litt wrote: Apparently somebody has arbitrarily declared July to be systemd month. I wonder what *we* can do to celebrate systemd month. I'm going to happily ignore it and do my own thing, and unless you want to give more power to systemd by acknowledging that the de

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

Le 15/07/2015 04:16, Go Linux a écrit : On Tue, 7/14/15, Daniel Reurich wrote: Subject: Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes To: "Franco Lanza" , dng@lists.dyne.org Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2015, 8:34 PM On 15/07/15 12:59, Franco Lanza wrote: >> >> nano -> vim: >> > No def

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

> On July 15, 2015 at 3:35 AM Didier Kryn wrote: > > Le 15/07/2015 04:16, Go Linux a écrit : > > I never could figure out vim but can find my way around nano. :) > > > > golinux > > > Same for me. Was never able to make the slightest change to a file > with vi :-( I have made horrendous

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On 07/15/2015 09:52 AM, Peter Olson wrote: >> On July 15, 2015 at 3:35 AM Didier Kryn wrote: >> >> Le 15/07/2015 04:16, Go Linux a écrit : >>> I never could figure out vim but can find my way around nano. :) >>> >>> golinux >>> >> Same for me. Was never able to make the slightest change to a

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

Franco Lanza writes: > More than the already know switch from gnome to xcfe4 as the default > desktop and the oblovious change to sysvinit instead of systemd, i would > to propose some other default changes in the standard install: > > nano -> vim > exim -> postfix I completely agree with Franco

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 10:03:21 +0200 Peter Maloney wrote: > just run "vimtutor" and do what it says... it's only difficult if you > don't know the buttons. I will come down on the other side of the argument: As a Debian noob (after years of using Slack, Mandrake-Mandriva-Mageia) I was completely

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 02:59:51AM +0200, Franco Lanza wrote: > More than the already know switch from gnome to xcfe4 as the default > desktop and the oblovious change to sysvinit instead of systemd, i would > to propose some other default changes in the standard install: > > nano -> vim > exim ->

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 04:20:36AM -0400, Renaud OLGIATI wrote: > On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 10:03:21 +0200 > Peter Maloney wrote: > > > just run "vimtutor" and do what it says... it's only difficult if you > > don't know the buttons. > > I will come down on the other side of the argument: As a Debian

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 10:29 AM, KatolaZ wrote: > On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 02:59:51AM +0200, Franco Lanza wrote: >> nano -> vim > I believe it's not time for changes in the defaults. The first thing I > do on fresh installs is to pull in vim and emacs, make one of them the > default editor and rem

[DNG] Systemd support in util-linux

Hi folks. Building util-linux-2.26 from the source at kernel.org, I noticed the following in the output of the configure script: checking for SYSTEMD... no checking for SYSTEMD_DAEMON... no checking for SYSTEMD_JOURNAL... no Means that Systemd is already there in official Linux so

Re: [DNG] Systemd support in util-linux

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 11:15:47AM +0200, Didier Kryn wrote: > Hi folks. > > Building util-linux-2.26 from the source at kernel.org, I > noticed the following in the output of the configure script: > > checking for SYSTEMD... no > checking for SYSTEMD_DAEMON... no > checking for SYSTEMD_J

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On 15/07/15 02:59, Franco Lanza wrote: > More than the already know switch from gnome to xcfe4 as the default > desktop and the oblovious change to sysvinit instead of systemd, i would > to propose some other default changes in the standard install: > > nano -> vim I think that one of the objecti

Re: [DNG] devuan Alpha2 installs nicely and works on old Acer amd64

On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 12:19 PM, Dave Turner wrote: > Are there any instructions on how to use the devuan-baseconf.deb? Never used it, but AFAIHeard you simply install it, update (and check if it correctly disabled all Debian (?) repos) , dist-upgrade! > I have an old iMac > Booting the iMac fr

[DNG] Fwd: Re: Proposed defaults changes

Forwarded Message Subject:Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 10:06:22 +0100 From: Alberto Zuin - liste To: Franco Lanza On 15/07/15 01:59, Franco Lanza wrote: More than the already know switch from gnome to xcfe4 as the default des

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 10:53:50PM -0700, Isaac Dunham wrote: > On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 02:59:51AM +0200, Franco Lanza wrote: > May I suggest that at this point, changes of this significance should be > planned for the next cycle rather than thrown in at the last moment? Yes, that makes sense. W

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Haines Brown wrote: > As for desktop environment, I assume the option of having none will remain. > With all this talk of xfce, I hope those who use none will be accommodated. Extrememly likely -- the current installer (since Debian jessie alpha 1 ?), which we ar

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 06:55:59AM -0400, Haines Brown wrote: > > May I suggest that at this point, changes of this significance should be > > planned for the next cycle rather than thrown in at the last moment? Well, we are not exactly "at the last moment" as my proposition is that such changes

Re: [DNG] Fw: [ale] ALE-Central Meeting Thursday July 16, 2015 @ 7:30pm

Hi, I always happen to be the grumpy snob involved in something else, when GNU/Fedora quackeries are brought up. This case is no exception: to me, July is the "sleep until noon, complain about the intense heatwave and work on rc hacks" month. -- Teodoro Santoni Something is wrong. I don't wanna

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On Wed, 7/15/15, Franco Lanza wrote: Subject: Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes To: dng@lists.dyne.org Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2015, 6:19 AM > Anyway, for all other pointing on "big changes" and so on, i > don't mean to change anything other than: > > when in debian we have nano and vim-t

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

Hi, On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 02:59:51AM +0200, Franco Lanza wrote: > More than the already know switch from gnome to xcfe4 as the default > desktop and the oblovious change to sysvinit instead of systemd, i would > to propose some other default changes in the standard install: > > nano -> vim I'd

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

- Original Message - > From: "Franco Lanza" > More than the already know switch from gnome to xcfe4 as the default > desktop and the oblovious change to sysvinit instead of systemd, i would > to propose some other default changes in the standard install: > > nano -> vim > exim -> postfix

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

Good time of the day, Peter. On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 10:03:21 +0200 you wrote: > just run "vimtutor" and do what it says... it's only difficult if you > don't know the buttons. There is some magic w/ the buttons: they use keys that are not found on keyboards -- i think it is a software from some pl

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

Good time of the day, Franco. On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 02:59:51 +0200 you wrote: > More than the already know switch from gnome to xcfe4 as the default > desktop and the oblovious change to sysvinit instead of systemd, i > would to propose some other default changes in the standard install: > > nano

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 08:10:15PM +0630, Ста Деюс wrote: > Good time of the day, Franco. > > > On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 02:59:51 +0200 you wrote: > > > More than the already know switch from gnome to xcfe4 as the default > > desktop and the oblovious change to sysvinit instead of systemd, i > > woul

[DNG] Devuan road map

Does Devuan have a place where a road map is tracked/shown? It would be nice to have a central place to plan releases and features. -Rich ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On 15/07/15 15:48, Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 08:10:15PM +0630, Ста Деюс wrote: >> Good time of the day, Franco. >> >> I suggest instead of nano/vim -- mcedit -- the internal text editor, >> coming w/ MC. -- I think that MC is a must for any distro -- for it is >> comfortable to

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 09:35:03AM -0400, Rob Owens wrote: > Which is Devuan intended to be? > > 1) Debian without systemd > 2) A Debian-like distro > Nor 1 or 2. Devuan is intended to be a debian that respect: 1- freedom of choice 2- UNIX philosophy 3- KISS philosophy Of course first of all t

Re: [DNG] Devuan road map

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 10:13:00AM -0400, richard white wrote: > Subject: [DNG] Devuan road map > > Does Devuan have a place where a road map is tracked/shown? > > It would be nice to have a central place to plan releases and features. > > -Rich Not yet enough documented, but the place you are

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

Franco Lanza writes: > when in debian we have nano and vim-tiny installed by default and > $EDITOR pointing to nano, i suggest to remove nano and point $EDITOR to > vim-tiny. +1 for pointing $EDITOR to vim-tiny > When in debian exim is installed as default MTA, we should choose > postfix instea

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

Ста Деюс writes: > coming w/ MC. -- I think that MC is a must for any distro -- for it is > comfortable to manage files/dir.s w/ it. If so, why no to use the On servers where mc is installed and I cannot remove it I always do $ echo alias mc=mv >> ~/.bashrc && . ~/.bashrc I thing mc is useless:

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 16:38:43 +0200 Franco Lanza wrote: > traditionally UNIX has vi, this is why i'm suggesting it. Except that Debian does not have it when a boot prob sends you to the rescue console ;-3( Cheers, Ron. -- Il est plus honteux de se défier de ses amis que d'en ètre tro

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 17:00:24 +0200 Micky Del Favero wrote: > Real men don't eat quique. No, they (bake and) eat quiche... Cheers, Ron. -- Il est plus honteux de se défier de ses amis que d'en ètre trompé. -- Duc de Larochefoucault

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On 15/07/15 17:00, Micky Del Favero wrote: > > I thing mc is useless: Real men don't eat quique. Each to their - the wonder of choice. I always did wonder why I never liked quiche though. Clearly I'm not a real man. Must remember to tell my wife and sons ;-) signature.asc Description: OpenPG

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Am Mi den 15. Jul 2015 um 16:06 schrieb Renaud OLGIATI: > On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 16:38:43 +0200 > Franco Lanza wrote: > > > traditionally UNIX has vi, this is why i'm suggesting it. > > Except that Debian does not have it when a boot prob sends you t

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On 15/07/15 17:14, Klaus Ethgen wrote: > > mc respectible mcedit is also a pain in the a... How often did I loose > stuff due to the editor.. I have to damit that I used it sometimes 25 > years ago when I start with linux but i learned pretty fast that it > makes you just slow and not to use it...

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

- Original Message - > From: "Franco Lanza" > On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 09:35:03AM -0400, Rob Owens wrote: >> Which is Devuan intended to be? >> >> 1) Debian without systemd >> 2) A Debian-like distro >> > > Nor 1 or 2. > Devuan is intended to be a debian that respect: > 1- freedom of ch

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 09:32:40 +0100 KatolaZ wrote: > On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 04:20:36AM -0400, Renaud OLGIATI wrote: > > On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 10:03:21 +0200 > > Peter Maloney wrote: > > > > > just run "vimtutor" and do what it says... it's only difficult if > > > you don't know the buttons. > >

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On 07/15/2015 06:39 PM, Steve Litt wrote: > I'm pretty sure oldschool vi *is* included in the basic install and > always has been. It usually is http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/vi.html http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/ and nano is not. But the fewer chan

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 16:38:43 +0200 Franco Lanza wrote: > Devuan is intended to be a debian that respect: > 1- freedom of choice > 2- UNIX philosophy > 3- KISS philosophy > > Of course first of all those 3 points make systemd unacceptable. I'd say the second and third points also make systemd u

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 02:59:51 +0200 Franco Lanza wrote: > More than the already know switch from gnome to xcfe4 as the default > desktop and the oblovious change to sysvinit instead of systemd, i > would to propose some other default changes in the standard install: > > nano -> vim > exim -> post

[DNG] I wan't it my way

I like linux because i can have it my way and you can have it your way. What do you think apt-get install is for? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Am Mi den 15. Jul 2015 um 16:27 schrieb John Crisp: > On 15/07/15 17:14, Klaus Ethgen wrote: > > > > mc respectible mcedit is also a pain in the a... How often did I loose > > stuff due to the editor.. I have to damit that I used it sometimes 25 > >

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 11:44:03AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > Devuan is intended to be a debian that respect: > > 1- freedom of choice > > 2- UNIX philosophy > > 3- KISS philosophy > > > > Of course first of all those 3 points make systemd unacceptable. > > I'd say the second and third points a

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Am Mi den 15. Jul 2015 um 1:59 schrieb Franco Lanza: > exim -> postfix Why not nullmailer? nullmailer is fine for most beginners and for more you want to choose yourself. I personally do not like pestfix. It has some drawbacks: - - It is good for

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On Wed, 7/15/15, Klaus Ethgen wrote: Subject: Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes To: dng@lists.dyne.org Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2015, 11:02 AM -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Am Mi den 15. Jul 2015 um 16:27 schrieb John Crisp: > On 15/07/15 17:14, Klaus Ethgen wrot

[DNG] Answering in the list

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Hi guys, is it to much to ask not to include me in the To: when answering my posts? Obviously I read the list so the discussion should stay here. And another plea, please don't post TOFU[0]. Regards Klaus [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

- Original Message - From: "KatolaZ" To: "Franco Lanza" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 4:29 AM Subject: Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 02:59:51AM +0200, Franco Lanza wrote: More than the already know switch from gnome to xcfe4 as the default desktop

Re: [DNG] Answering in the list

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 05:29:22PM +0100, Klaus Ethgen wrote: > Hi guys, > > is it to much to ask not to include me in the To: when answering my > posts? Obviously I read the list so the discussion should stay here. > > And another plea, please don't post TOFU[0]. > > Regards >Klaus > Well

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On Wed, 2015-07-15 at 02:59 +0200, Franco Lanza wrote: > More than the already know switch from gnome to xcfe4 as the default > desktop and the oblovious change to sysvinit instead of systemd, i would > to propose some other default changes in the standard install: > > nano -> vim > exim -> postfi

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 11:29:26AM -0400, Rob Owens wrote: > In that case, my next question would be "Do we want to cater to those who > are new to Linux/Unix?" If yes, then nano is a good choice. If no, then > vi is a good choice. Well, in my personal opinion devuan should not focus on new u

[DNG] Why neither vi nor emacs make good default start-up editors

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 04:34:57PM +0200, John Crisp wrote: > On 15/07/15 15:48, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 08:10:15PM +0630, Ста Деюс wrote: > >> Good time of the day, Franco. > > >> > >> I suggest instead of nano/vim -- mcedit -- the internal text editor, > >> coming w/ MC.

[DNG] Proposed editor change

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 11:29:26AM -0400, Rob Owens wrote: > - Original Message - > > From: "Franco Lanza" > > On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 09:35:03AM -0400, Rob Owens wrote: > >> Which is Devuan intended to be? > >> > >> 1) Debian without systemd > >> 2) A Debian-like distro > >> > > > > N

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

Having nano available (doesn't matter if it's default) on base installs is critical for me. I never ever use vi unless I'm using a distro with nano/pico not being available. I expect nano to be available in a base install with no DE. so having a 'sys admin' version without nano seems odd. overall

Re: [DNG] Answering in the list

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Am Mi den 15. Jul 2015 um 17:36 schrieb Franco Lanza: > On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 05:29:22PM +0100, Klaus Ethgen wrote: > > is it to much to ask not to include me in the To: when answering my > > posts? Obviously I read the list so the discussion shoul

Re: [DNG] Answering in the list

Precedence had nothing to do with replies, it has to do with delivery and queuing. Long ago, some MTAs would try to deliver personal mail first at peak times, and defer list mail until there was sister capacity. Those times are fine, but the header field remains. Arnt ___

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 +1 for not changing the defaults at this time. I feel this could start a multitude of little holy wars (editor, mta, etc.) which we don't need right now that the first goal - "Debian, but without systemd" - is within grasp. Expert users can adapt fr

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On 07/15/2015 11:52 AM, Steve Litt wrote: With the benefit of hindsight, having read everyone's responses, I now vote like this: When in doubt, change nothing! I'd leave well enough alone, and revisit this question after Devuan goes stable and we're planning the next version. SteveT SteveT,

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 17:08:35 +0100 Klaus Ethgen wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA512 > > Am Mi den 15. Jul 2015 um 1:59 schrieb Franco Lanza: > > exim -> postfix > > Why not nullmailer? I'd leave things the way they are. If there's a way to have nullmailer, in the absen

Re: [DNG] systemd in wheezy, was: Re: bummer

On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 18:45:19 +0200 Didier Kryn wrote: > That said, I fully agree with you that udev is the major weapon > the systemd team is using to lock themselves in the place, and > breaking udev monopoly with vdev is the answer. > > Didier I did a lot of work with Gentoo over

[DNG] I am not using systemd and plan to avoid it

I just cast my vote on http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20150713#poll. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

Svante Signell writes: > Please don't exchange nano for vim. If you install vim as default you > should also install emaacs-nox for those not comfortable with > vim. nano is a simple editor good enough to edit e.g. configuration > files and to enable installation of vim/emacs/whatever if needed.

Re: [DNG] systemd in wheezy, was: Re: bummer

- Original Message - > From: "Steve Litt" > On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 18:45:19 +0200 > Didier Kryn wrote: > > >> That said, I fully agree with you that udev is the major weapon >> the systemd team is using to lock themselves in the place, and >> breaking udev monopoly with vdev is the a

Re: [DNG] systemd in wheezy, was: Re: bummer

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 02:40:49PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: taste. They even have those wonderful "Predictable Network Interface Names" (http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/). Silly me, I thought eth0 was predictable. If you only have one NIC, yes

Re: [DNG] systemd in wheezy, was: Re: bummer

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 03:07:46PM -0400, Rob Owens wrote: > I am of the belief that sysvinit isn't all that bad, and I'd rather use > it than learn something new. But I've found OpenRC relatively easy to > understand and work with. OpenRC actually uses sysvinit; it replaces sysv-rc (the boot sc

Re: [DNG] Answering in the list

On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 17:29:22 +0100 Klaus Ethgen wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA512 > > Hi guys, > > is it to much to ask not to include me in the To: when answering my > posts? Obviously I read the list so the discussion should stay here. > > And another plea, please do

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

> > exim -> postfix > I'd like to suggest that Debian' use of a lightweight EXIM (not the full EXIM) remain the default over Postfix. I've managed and programmed Postfix servers before. It is not a trivial task, nor do I believe that Postfix makes a best replacement. Postfix has several long

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 07:16:25PM +0200, Michael Bütow wrote: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > +1 for not changing the defaults at this time. > > I feel this could start a multitude of little holy wars (editor, mta, > etc.) which we don't need right now that the first goa

Re: [DNG] Systemd support in util-linux

On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 10:20:31 +0100 KatolaZ wrote: > > > I think it is a very good thing to have config scripts checking for > the existence of systemd. This means that developers still consider > systemd a non standard component of a GNU/Linux system, like a library > that you can have in your s

Re: [DNG] I am not using systemd and plan to avoid it

Very interesiting data at this moment. I use systemd and like it: 607 (37%) I use systemd and dislike it: 208 (13%) I am not using systemd and plan to use it: 82 (5%) I am not using systemd and plan to avoid it:560 (34%) Other: 200 (12%) So, now is 37% vs 34% (better than what

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 04:38:43PM +0200, Franco Lanza wrote: > On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 09:35:03AM -0400, Rob Owens wrote: > > Which is Devuan intended to be? > > > > 1) Debian without systemd > > 2) A Debian-like distro > > > > Nor 1 or 2. > Devuan is intended to be a debian that respect: > 1-

Re: [DNG] I am not using systemd and plan to avoid it

Look at the number who use it and dislike it... Sent from my Windows Phone From: Alberto Zuin - liste Sent: ‎7/‎15/‎2015 2:14 PM To: dng@lists.dyne.org Subject: Re: [DNG] I am not using systemd and plan to avo

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On Wed, 2015-07-15 at 21:04 +0200, Micky Del Favero wrote: > Svante Signell writes: > > > Please don't exchange nano for vim. If you install vim as default you > > should also install emaacs-nox for those not comfortable with > > vim. nano is a simple editor good enough to edit e.g. configuration

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On 16/07/15 04:40, Franco Lanza wrote: On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 11:29:26AM -0400, Rob Owens wrote: In that case, my next question would be "Do we want to cater to those who are new to Linux/Unix?" If yes, then nano is a good choice. If no, then vi is a good choice. Well, in my personal opinio

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 09:04:03PM +0200, Micky Del Favero wrote: > Svante Signell writes: > > > Please don't exchange nano for vim. If you install vim as default you > > should also install emaacs-nox for those not comfortable with > > vim. nano is a simple editor good enough to edit e.g. config

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

Le 15/07/2015 18:02, Klaus Ethgen a écrit : Even though mc is something good for beginners but debian or devuan is not focusing on beginners and even devuan is focusing on "veteran unix admins" so vi(m) would be the only proper choice.:-D I remember 30 years ago, there was an admin in my lab

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

Le 15/07/2015 21:04, Micky Del Favero a écrit : I vote to put vi as default editor in devuan because vi is the default editor in every unix since ever and every unix user has to know how to use vi! Micky, First the argument that we should do this because it has always been like that is

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On 07/15/2015 07:41 PM, Didier Kryn wrote: > If the gurus use vim and dislike nano, since they are > gurus, they can change the default themselves and leave the ordinary > people with a limited but usable editor. > *** Totally agree: why put a burden on the profane when it takes two seconds for an

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On 07/15/2015 01:40 PM, Franco Lanza wrote: > > Well, in my personal opinion devuan should not focus on new users, as > nor debian does. > > For new users there are plenty of distros, most notable ubuntu, and we > should not compete with it. > *** I STRONGLY oppose this view, and you already know

[DNG] Devuan without salt

Following the discussion on defaults and a couple of recent remarks from Jaromil regarding audio ("for professionals") and Franco's opinion to ignore new users and "focus on intermediate users", I'd like to make a point: if Devuan is supposed to incarnate the legacy of Debian (as is mentioned in th

Re: [DNG] Devuan without salt

On 16/07/15 12:52, hellekin wrote: Following the discussion on defaults and a couple of recent remarks from Jaromil regarding audio ("for professionals") and Franco's opinion to ignore new users and "focus on intermediate users", I'd like to make a point: if Devuan is supposed to incarnate the le

Re: [DNG] I am not using systemd and plan to avoid it

I wonder what sparked the survey subject? Interesting and as of this time the results are looking even worse for systemd. The Distrowatch world is obviously crying out for the release of Devuan. (-: I can foresee an abrupt change once the word gets out and the need for "astroturfing" becomes

Re: [DNG] I am not using systemd and plan to avoid it

Calculated up: I use systemd and like it: 624 (36%) I use systemd and dislike it: 214 (12%) I am not using systemd and plan to use it: 87 (5%) I am not using systemd and plan to avoid it: 600 (35%) Other: 203 (12%) That means roughly only 711 people like and want to use systemd. That also mea

Re: [DNG] I am not using systemd and plan to avoid it

dng-requ...@lists.dyne.org wrote on 16/07/15 03:39: > Re: [DNG] I am not using systemd and plan to avoid it Happy to say that after I voted it was 633 users "for" and 634 "against" (not planning to use it). Due to the construction of the poll, the "plan to avoid" figure includes those of us who wi