Xfce requires ConsoleKit or ConsoleKit2 and the startup ran with the flag
startxfce --with-ck-launch.
From: iguledermailto:d...@dimakrasner.com
Sent: 8/23/2015 11:48 PM
To: adamdmmailto:ada...@trueleet.com
Cc: dng@lists.dyne.orgmailto:dng@lists.dyne.org
Jaromil, truth be told, I actually hold back in my critique of systemd and the
people who blindly support it. I very well can't publicly say, Anyone who
favors systemd is about as stupid as a pile of horse vomit, and should go play
Russian Roulette with a shotgun in the middle of a busy freeway
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 00:07:36 +0200
From: phi...@posteo.de
To: dng@lists.dyne.org
Subject: Re: [DNG] Linux-related critique [Rant]
Rainer, I'm sorry for posting the wrong quote header in my previous
message. Of course I was quoting DStoicheff, not you.
Best,
Philip
the option, and kill choice. Once systemd is in, it is in.
-Jim
From: T.J. Duchenemailto:t.j.duch...@gmail.com
Sent: 8/15/2015 12:48 PM
To: dng@lists.dyne.orgmailto:dng@lists.dyne.org
Subject: Re: [DNG] Systemd Shims
On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 03:15:50 -0700
James Powell
Thank you.
If people want Devuan with systemd or anything close to it, use Debian aka
CoreOS w/ dpkg.
People came to Devuan to have choice, mainly a choice to avoid systemd at all
costs.
-Jim
From: Nextimemailto:next...@nexlab.it
Sent: 8/16/2015 5:59 AM
To:
While there are packages that can be invisible and unintrusive into the system,
there are some that cannot.
The problem is responsibility.
Who wants to remain responsible for boot scripts? Upstream or vendor?
Who wants responsibility for providing interoperability between projects?
Upstream
My $0.02...
Shims are not needed, or, in my viewpoint, wanted. You're still working with
systemd or pseudo-systemd and either way you see it, it's still systemd. While
the prospect of systemd-shim does allow to separate the API layer and logind
out from the core project, as uselessd allowed
Slackware is maintained by 3 core people with extra help as needed. The rest of
the packages are pushed by the community at large contributing. Devuan doesn't
have to maintain every package possible. That's ludicrous to think so.
Debian got in over its head by allowing this. Thousands upon
@lists.dyne.orgmailto:dng@lists.dyne.org
Subject: Re: [DNG] Devuan and upstream
On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 05:19:25PM -0700, James Powell wrote:
Slackware is maintained by 3 core people with extra help as needed. The rest
of the packages are pushed by the community at large contributing. Devuan
As someone who's background is in Slackware, I know where automatic package
dependency resolution has its good points and bad points.
Pkgtools is very basic. Everything is left to the system administrator to
resolve, but SlackBuilds.org offered a solution. It allows packages to have
certain
-detection of
plugged devices is working for me. I don't want automounting but I
believe it would be easy to setup with udevil!?
/Scooby
On 2015-08-12 12:48, James Powell wrote:
We all know Devuan is going to create a huge ripple in the great big
pond, and join the ranks of the pro-choicers
We all know Devuan is going to create a huge ripple in the great big pond, and
join the ranks of the pro-choicers in regards to software usage.
While I'm following vdev closely, mostly to backport it to another
distribution, Devuan's success will bring success to other choice giving
Subject: Re: [DNG] Excessive bouncing
I just got that message again too. Yes, really annoying . . .
BTW, your inline attachments are not coming through the dng list.
On Tue, 8/11/15, James Powell james4...@hotmail.com wrote:
Subject: [DNG] Excessive
From the look of Mark's website I was a bit disappointed not to find a
link to www.davidicke.com!
But, if the quick'n'dirty pragmatic solution is systemd shims then so be
it as far as I am concerned.
DaveT
On 08/08/15 18:14, Go Linux wrote:
On Sat, 8/8/15, Mark S Bilk
Currently Debian packages contains both systemd units and init scripts.
However, Debian developers refused to support several init systems. So it's
only a matter of time when they remove init scripts from packages.What will
Devuan developers do when it happens? We can use sysvinit and Devuan
Eventually, and I kinda realized this, work may be needed to write a udisks
replacement for vdev that can work off vdev without loosing functionality to
udisks using applications and file managers, especially for non-Linux systems.
Nothing fancy, but as long as it works and allows for some
I seriously doubt Xfce will go fully into systemd since they forked ConsoleKit2
and have been updating it to perform all the work of logind.
I just wish Xfce would write their own automount utility to replace udisks.
From: Teodoro
CDE is a classic UNIX desktop, but it has long been since viable for modern
usages.
Xfce, in truth, was a modern replacement for it using Xforms since Motif was,
at the time, under a different license. It bears the same classic layout minus
some differences.
However, last I had heard CDE was
default windows manager
On 2015-07-24 20:48, James Powell wrote:
CDE is a classic UNIX desktop, but it has long been since viable for
modern usages.
Xfce, in truth, was a modern replacement for it using Xforms since
Motif was, at the time, under a different license. It bears the same
classic
might be forking the MirDebian WTF to MirDevuan
WTF for Devuan needs...
But I am really not a dev, and I really have spoken enough I believe.
Unless someone has questions, or either T.J Duchene or James Powell
decide to reply to my questions to them, or launch some counter
questions, I'll be looking
There is ConsoleKit2...
From: Vladmailto:2389...@gmail.com
Sent: 7/22/2015 5:49 PM
To: dng@lists.dyne.orgmailto:dng@lists.dyne.org
Subject: [DNG] Multi-seat on Devuan, do we actually need that useless curiosity?
I think that the pretty useless feature which
, James Powell wrote:
D-Bus isn't great, but currently it is still a cross-UNIX IPC in
userspace. BSD uses it, Illumos uses it, and so does GNU/Linux.
Since you would still like it around, in opportunistic or in some other
way that I should call it, I think a question is due.
Can you tell
D-Bus isn't great, but currently it is still a cross-UNIX IPC in userspace. BSD
uses it, Illumos uses it, and so does GNU/Linux.
D-Bus is way down my list of software to steer clear of any more.
From:
The problem with some of these known attacks are the effectiveness of each.
Example:
Last night I was thinking about how it could have happened, but actually during
a system evaluation I did in my head, I actually hit a large wall.
Shadow can use cryptographic algorithms of at least 512-bit
http://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/2015/07/21/hackers-discover-way-to-remotely-control-jeeps/?cmpid=cmty_twitter_fb
It appears, from the looks of things, Ashley Madison isn't the only one getting
hacked.
I'm wondering how this is happening so rampantly recently, but I'm trying hard
not to
Oh wow. I've used Kali for testing security on networking routers and firewalls
myself. I hope they can switch out to Devuan also. Be a real shame to see them
get plagued by systemd.
Often at times I forget how many specialized distributions for RD and testing
are Debian based.
Devuan appears to want to stick to sysvinit for the initial release. Afterwards
however, is debatable, but regardless, sanity in init is going to be probably
prevalent.
I too favor OpenRC as well as it is really a sane way to extend sysvinit.
From: Antonio
The PC-BSD system-BS-D was an April Fools joke.
However, launchd is a completely different beast than systemd is. Launchd is
more akin to SMF on Solaris/Illumos and s6 on GNU/Linux being init and service
supervisors only, which are forward thinking.
They still require other daemons to manage
From: Stephanie Daughertymailto:sdaughe...@gmail.com
Sent: 7/17/2015 2:25 AM
To: dng@lists.dyne.orgmailto:dng@lists.dyne.org
Subject: Re: [DNG] devuan LTS
On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 1:50 AM James Powell james4...@hotmail.com wrote:
There is one thing I would recommend different
I care that my PID1 isn't going to have an instance where it could crash by
doing something it shouldn't, and bloat itself in my virtual memory.
Sent from my Windows Phone
From: KatolaZmailto:kato...@freaknet.org
Sent: 7/17/2015 1:13 AM
To: Gregory
If they don't use systemd dependencies then yes, otherwise, no.
Sent from my Windows Phone
From: Stanley Webbmailto:sw...@cumbytel.com
Sent: 7/17/2015 11:17 AM
To: Dng@lists.dyne.orgmailto:Dng@lists.dyne.org
Subject: [DNG] Mate
Will it be possible to install
/2015 3:45 PM
To: James Powellmailto:james4...@hotmail.com
Cc: KatolaZmailto:kato...@freaknet.org; T.J.
Duchenemailto:t.j.duch...@gmail.com;
dng@lists.dyne.orgmailto:dng@lists.dyne.org
Subject: Re: [DNG] dng@lists.dyne.org
On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 03:19:06PM -0700, James Powell wrote
@lists.dyne.orgmailto:dng@lists.dyne.org
Subject: Re: [DNG] dng@lists.dyne.org
On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 12:06:59PM -0700, James Powell wrote:
It's not just that, but why are there so many broken down packages? -bin,
-dev, -meta, -src, -lib, -doc, etc. my God do we need this many? Many
distributions use just one all
If the goal of Devuan is Debian sans-systemd, then no changes other than
rebuilding packages to exclude systemd support is needed.
No changes need to be made to anything other than the init couplings.
There is no debating vi or nano. That's just B.S. What we should be concerned
with is what to
POV too. Since they are switching to
Systemd, no one is maintaining the S5 scripts, so in all likelihood they
will be dropped in the future. I don't blame them for that, but it is
unfortunate. Systemd still has some annoyances.
On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 9:08 PM, James Powell james4...@hotmail.com
It's about sanity really and keeping things as simple as possible, but as sane
as possible in the long term. Read that right... The long term.
Sent from my Windows Phone
From: Gregory Nowakmailto:g...@gregn.net
Sent: 7/16/2015 10:44 PM
To:
Calculated up:
I use systemd and like it: 624 (36%)
I use systemd and dislike it: 214 (12%)
I am not using systemd and plan to use it: 87 (5%)
I am not using systemd and plan to avoid it: 600 (35%)
Other: 203 (12%)
That means roughly only 711 people like and want to use systemd.
That also
I don't care about the context of the formatting, as my mobile can receive any
type of email and I never use a client on my computer other than a web browser,
but I do care for the message itself and it's content.
But I'll revamp what my points were:
1. GNU is an operating system, and Linux is
. Duchenemailto:t.j.duch...@gmail.com
Sent: 7/8/2015 11:06 AM
To: 'James Powell'mailto:james4...@hotmail.com;
'dng'mailto:dng@lists.dyne.org
Subject: RE: [DNG] systemd in wheezy, was: Re: bummer
From: James Powell [mailto:james4...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2015 12:27 PM
To: T.J. Duchene
Having this news brings us many steps closer to a full udev replacement.
One step closer to shattering the stranglehold of udev forever. I just wish I
could be at the Linux Conference when vdev goes RTM and completely shatters the
hopes and dreams of systemd. I'd be, or try to be, the first to
Me either, but I just got the notice also. What are bounces anyway? Dead email
addresses?
Sent from my Windows Phone
From: Antomailto:arya...@chello.at
Sent: 7/5/2015 1:50 PM
To: dng@lists.dyne.orgmailto:dng@lists.dyne.org
Subject: [DNG] Testing - Please
Hey guys. I know this is out of the norm, and yes I know all about the CDDL,
Btrfs, and other things, but I'm working with ZFS and need some help.
I'm try to get my root file system which is at mountpoint=legacy with zpool
ztank/linux/root dataset able to boot with the kernel.
I have spl and
Then this without a doubt is clear evidence that kdbus is in fact a systemd
proprietary IPC. Has anyone heard of any software otherwise that will use kdbus
at all, even in the least?
Lennart is desperate to get kdbus in, but is making a critical error in
judgment with this. No distribution has
...@in2p3.fr
Sent: 6/20/2015 2:49 AM
To: dng@lists.dyne.orgmailto:dng@lists.dyne.org
Subject: Re: [DNG] We Must be Prepared
Le 20/06/2015 11:06, James Powell a écrit :
Then this without a doubt is clear evidence that kdbus is in fact a
systemd proprietary IPC. Has anyone heard of any software
The problem is, kdbus isn't just an IPC, it's proprietary to systemd, and is
the only software capable of utilizing it.
Greg Hartman as the lead-takeover for Linus? Hell no. He'd give it to Lennart
and Kay without batting an eye, and then shut out every developer save their
own.
Dare I say
DRM is provided by libhal.so. Many people have used a special Hal package
called halflash over a Slackware. It works with
Freshplayerplugin(libpepflashplayer) and FlashPlayer-Plugin.
Sent from my Windows Phone
From: Jude Nelsonmailto:jud...@gmail.com
Sent:
I think this might be the best option...
Have firmware only for networking devices and scsi/sata/ide controllers on the
net installation disk. At least let the system support vectors be 100% or as
close to 100% compatible as possible. If it is needed post-install the have it
offered.
Why?
Polkit, Eudev, and dbus should be okay to install.
Sent from my Windows Phone
From: Edward Bartolomailto:edb...@gmail.com
Sent: 6/4/2015 11:49 PM
To: dngmailto:dng@lists.dyne.org
Subject: [Dng] Need some advice to compile consolekit2 for amd64
I am trying to
From my limited knowledge on licensing agreements, I think as long as there
are no restrictions on redistribution from the original people who provide the
firmware, it can be freely redistributed as long as the firmware isn't
decompiled or disassembled.
I don't know, off hand, of any
If the firmware aids in compatibility and driver support then yes, include it.
Sent from my Windows Phone
From: Arnt Gulbrandsenmailto:a...@gulbrandsen.priv.no
Sent: 6/3/2015 1:50 AM
To: dng@lists.dyne.orgmailto:dng@lists.dyne.org; Daniel
I agree that there should be a scan ran to inform the system user that binary
firmware is needed at boot, but likewise, if the system needs it, it should be
an offered option at installation time also, just not offered by default as
enabled. The user must at least select the option to
manager
James Powell wrote:
Doesn't udevil have a port on BSD? Off kilter question but
if the answer is yes, then I can expand the idea I have.
A Google search turned up this:
http://ftp4.se.freebsd.org/pub/ubuntu/pool/universe/u/udevil/
Not sure if that is what you're looking for. Hope
Doesn't udevil have a port on BSD? Off kilter question but if the answer is
yes, then I can expand the idea I have.
Sent from my Windows Phone
From: Rob Owensmailto:row...@ptd.net
Sent: 6/1/2015 10:30 AM
To: shraptormailto:shrap...@bahnhof.se
Cc:
https://github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/master/NEWS
It seems udev is getting split up between several projects within systemd and
GNOME. It seems gudev is being handed off in the future to GNOME and parts of
udev are being pushed deeper into systemd.
I'm not surprised at this, since kdbus
One concern I have is how GNOME will manage gudev. One thing I don't want to
think about is them creating some dependency upon systemd in some way
preventing portability to extracted udev or something that is udev compatible
like vdev requiring gudev to be either heavily patched or redeveloped,
Though I do have to admit, someone should edit in that Jude Nelson was
developing vdev and Slackware was still against the adoption and just recently
got a full import of OpenRC on the SBo for further hilarity.
All in good fun guys.
-Jim
From: james4...@hotmail.com
To: phi...@posteo.de;
Automounting is strictly done via udisks and udisks2 which work with udev
(udev-classic, eudev, or systemd-udev) with modern DEs. There are scripts than
can automount devices using the classic method that can be inserted into the
startup routine of a WM though, or you can assign them to be
SMF is more akin to uselessd, s6, and runit. It's an init system only. I think
even launchd is only an init system as well.
Sent from my Windows Phone
From: Dragan FOSSmailto:dragan.f...@gmx.com
Sent: 5/23/2015 3:42 PM
To: Nuno
Mediocre developers who are arrogant end up in the unemployment lines...
Beautiful phrase.
Sent from my Windows Phone
From: Steve Littmailto:sl...@troubleshooters.com
Sent: 5/23/2015 3:17 PM
To: dng@lists.dyne.orgmailto:dng@lists.dyne.org
Subject: [Dng] The
] Slackware systemd creepin in maybe?
On 23/05/2015 05:18, James Powell wrote:
True, but developers are banding together to resist this as well, and fork
projects as needed.
But what happens when one has to fork everything from Firefox to Enkive
to Hadoop to Tryton?
I've forgotten what I installed
Remember Lennart's remarks about BSD?
BSD isn't relevant anymore. It's a toy OS.
Sent from my Windows Phone
From: Hendrik Boommailto:hend...@topoi.pooq.com
Sent: 5/23/2015 7:02 PM
To: dng@lists.dyne.orgmailto:dng@lists.dyne.org
Subject: Re: [Dng] Slackware
slacking.
- Original Message -
From: James Powell james4...@hotmail.com
To:Anto arya...@chello.at, yve...@tpg.com.au, dng@lists.dyne.org
Cc:
Sent:Tue, 19 May 2015 14:18:40 -0700
Subject:RE: [Dng] Slackware systemd creepin in maybe?
Hey guys, let me clarify the Slackware position
Jude, when vdev gets mature enough, could you submit an init script to the
OpenRC project, please?
Thanks,
Jim
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
systems are much easier to add to uncontaminated distros
like Slackware and Devuan.
SteveT
Steve Litt
May 2015 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business
http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz
On Wed, 20 May 2015 21:25:51 +
James Powell james4...@hotmail.com wrote:
Currently work
From: Jude Nelsonmailto:jud...@gmail.com
Sent: 5/14/2015 12:33 AM
To: James Powellmailto:james4...@hotmail.com
Cc: dng@lists.dyne.orgmailto:dng@lists.dyne.org
Subject: Re: [Dng] [dng] vdev status update (2015-05-03)
Hi James,
On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 12:04 AM, James
Unfortunately the moderators at LinuxQuestions have closed off discussing the
Devuan stance topic that had been open and participate in over the repeated
squabbling, though honestly, very little was done other than the people who
seemed offended by the choice of Devuan's developers lack of
As a co-submission, the Runit-for-LFS project over at Bitbucket is freely
available. We also have a subproject called init-shim which duplicates many of
the sysvinit software.
https://bitbucket.org/ReaperX7/runit-for-lfs
If Devuan can find it useful, by all means clone and redevelop as needed.
And on the other side, anything actually committed by the author means
it is part of/a fix for eudev development alone. Here's an example of
such a commit:
https://github.com/gentoo/eudev/commit/93fc111c3c701a588f6ba7c39e514f8ffec425a4
Fix builds on gcc 4.5? Yeah, I can see systemd
Practically every part of systemd has been modularized or supplemented out.
Some of which aren't needed at all.
systemd-init - uselessd cloned the entire init and service supervisor. Other
init programs of a similar nature include
sysvinit/sinit+perp/runit/s6/daemontools-encore, runit
...@realitysend.com
Sent: 5/7/2015 7:46 PM
To: dng@lists.dyne.orgmailto:dng@lists.dyne.org
Subject: Re: [Dng] Which source version fo systemd are you stripping code from?
On 05/07/2015 09:59 PM, James Powell wrote:
Etcnet was very involved with scripts which was always a problem for
Red Hat. Many
I actually like netplug myself. Although it duplicates ifup/ifdown and acts as
a dhcp/static IP client and is fairly autonomous, it's a very sane project that
does it's job, does it well, and isn't intrusive.
Sent from my Windows Phone
From: Isaac
Etcnet was very involved with scripts which was always a problem for Red Hat.
Many Red Hat scripts have been known for being substandard in quality and
reliability, possibly a reason why they wanted systemd so bad.
However, any daemon can work well if proper scripting is applied and mistakes
When it comes to building packages, you can always run rm with an option
against the temporary directory where the packer is targeting to remove any
files related to systemd, use sed or patches against existing scripts or import
custom scripts and configurations, and then allow the packager to
Yes. Eudev should be the target goal for now until Jude can get vdev
stabilized. There's also the aspect of using Busybox-mdev (mdev-like-a-boss
project has a lot of insight on this for generalized usages) though this would
forgo any allowances of evdev drivers for input devices and require the
Yes, we need another MacroShaft screwing us over a barrel... NOT.
Sent from my Windows Phone
From: Laurent Bercotmailto:ska-de...@skarnet.org
Sent: 5/5/2015 3:21 PM
To: dng@lists.dyne.orgmailto:dng@lists.dyne.org
Subject: Re: [Dng] [dng] vdev status updates
On
Sorry, for my input here, but the title says nothing but laughable bullshit.
There is no evidence anywhere scientific or not that being anti-systemd makes
you a woman hater. I'm anti-systemd and have been happily married for 12 years.
This seems more of a spin mastering by radicals wanting to
is quite strange.
Nik
Am Donnerstag, 30. April 2015 schrieb James Powell:
From my personal knowledge, having built LFS a few times, though this
doesn't compare with other distributions as the purposes of /(root), /usr,
/opt, and /usr/local have changed over the years:
/(root
The discussion has not been favorable towards the adoption from current reading
on LKML. Past tests have not proven reliability, nor any significant increase
of speed of messaging across the IPC. Linus seems to be of no love for it.
IMO from the collective discussion, kdbus doesn't seem to be
Having watched other systems transitioning to systemd, I wouldn't be surprised
if they did, or the projects get pushed into forced deprecation as ConsoleKit
did before it was revived.
-Jim
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 08:19:25 -0400
From: hend...@topoi.pooq.com
To: dng@lists.dyne.org
Subject:
Thanks for the update Jude. I'm still experimenting with vdev with an LFS build
as well as a Slackware build. Really hoping we can finally cut off udev
eventually for something compatible.
Thanks for the update Jude. Keep up the great work.
Sent from my Windows Phone
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