> > That's pretty arrogant. Can you back that up with some actual reasons,
> like
> > others in this discussion are doing? Or is this simply a case of
> "because I
> > said so"
> >
>
> It's not arrogant, it's a fact. There's not even a single release, only
> a dozen or so regular participants, and
> *** We could use mailman's topics for that. When you want to talk about
> development, use the [dev] tag in the Subject, and if you're not
> interested in anything else, simply subscribe to the [dev] topic and
> ignore the rest.
>
The reason the vast majority of projects use separate lists is b
> We do not need another list.
>
That's pretty arrogant. Can you back that up with some actual reasons, like
others in this discussion are doing? Or is this simply a case of "because I
said so"
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>
> The «long standing, wide-ranging implementation pattern» thing is a
> bogus argument. Similar to "Lots of people jump of bridges, care to
> join them?"
>
Thats just uninformed bullshit. "Patterns" are one of the cornerstones of
modern computing architecture - without patterns everybody will be
> should we just retire the mailing list(s) and start using the forum?
>
...I don't even...
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All good points. However, having a -dev list really does have some
significant benefits.
- Firstly, as already mentioned, it allows for the chatter to be separated
from the work.
- Secondly, it allows for aggregating commit and update messages from
gitlab, jenkins, the infrastructure at large etc.
awesome, many thanks!
On 7 April 2015 at 14:11, Jaromil wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Apr 2015, Martijn Dekkers wrote:
>
> >we could perhaps tie the dev list in with notifications from jenkins,
> >gitlab etc to give a good general overview of whats moving
>
> ok, but plea
we could perhaps tie the dev list in with notifications from jenkins,
gitlab etc to give a good general overview of whats moving
On 7 April 2015 at 09:45, Franco Lanza wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 07, 2015 at 09:25:47AM +0300, Martijn Dekkers wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I know this ha
Hi,
I know this has come up a few times in the past, but I would really like to
see a dev specific list, with some strict "dev-only" rules. The
Drama-to-Noise ratio is getting pretty high pretty frequently, and IRC just
doesn't work for many people.
pretty-please? I am happy to donate time, effor
Hey TJ, I'm very sorry to see you go. Yours is an experienced and balanced
voice that this young community needs more of.
On 7 April 2015 at 00:04, T.J. Duchene wrote:
> Anyone wants to contact me is certainly welcome to do so off of the Devuan
> list, on any subject they please.
>
> I’m not try
> When the organization has made a foundational policy decision, so they
> can move forward and implement that policy, yet somebody keeps trying
> to open up that policy to further debate, is that somebody's fire
> really friendly? Are they looking and fighting in the same direction,
> or are they
the day.
On 6 April 2015 at 17:55, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Apr 2015 11:46:45 +0300
> Martijn Dekkers wrote:
>
> > > What really puzzles me is why if you love systemd that much you just
> > > continue arguing about systemd on the ML of a Debian fork
> > &
> > Looks to me like he isn't arguing for systemd, but he is just discussing
> > systems designs and implementation. Also looks to me like he is simply
> > keeping an open mind, and not getting swept away in hate either way
>
> ...while I am getting swept away in hate? :) I admit I like very mu
> What really puzzles me is why if you love systemd that much you just
> continue arguing about systemd on the ML of a Debian fork specifically
> born to throw systemd away. Do you think you might be able to convince
> us that systemd is *good* and *beautiful* and *necessary*? I don't
> want to be
Hey TJ!
> Steve, I'd like to ask you a question from a technical standpoint. I am
> not being sarcastic or condescending in any way whatsoever. If you, in
> your experience, think that perhaps systemd is an attempt to clone a
> Windows desktop, the server side of Linux be damned?
>
There are qu
> Well, it does not sync with the planet scheme, but for example ubuntu logo
> has nothing in common with their code naming scheme
>
The ubuntu logo is pretty much a direct visualisation of the meaning of the
word "ubuntu"
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How is the puppy?!?
On 31 March 2015 at 06:20, Jude Nelson wrote:
> Hey everyone,
>
> I don't have as much to report this week as I usually do, since I spent
> half my weekend dealing with a pet medical emergency (TL;DR: ibuprofen is
> toxic to puppies, and puppies can chew through child-proof l
I'm going with "early april fools joke"
On 30 March 2015 at 14:39, Vlad <2389...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This would IMO be a good thing, as it will limit the interaction between
> Poettering OS and normal Linux, and they would have to fix the bugs they
> create themselves, rather than bitch and moan
> I got tired of cron on my Wheezy box (long story), so I created my own
> cron system in Python. It reads its (almost compatible) crontab file,
> checks the current time, and does the called-for commands, then sleeps
> for 31 seconds and does it all over again. I can run it in a terminal
> and wat
> IMHO s6/daemontools and similar tools are just a helpers.
>
That is *exactly* what they are.
> They help to run as a unix daemon a program which is not written to be
> a unix daemon.
>
No, sorry, you are wrong. They are supervisors, and as such they ensure any
long-running job keeps running whe
Hey Poitr,
s6 advertises itself as init replacement.
>
No, S6, runit, daemontools, etc advertise as supervisor tools. Some of
these, like S6, are also a sane init replacement, should you want to go
this way.
> I'm not using s6 or daemontools. I do not need them.
Some people do need them. We do
Have a look at this excellent comparison for supervisor / init tools:
http://skarnet.org/software/s6/why.html
S6 is the bees' knees
On 28 March 2015 at 01:32, Steve Litt wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm managing more and more of my daemons with daemontools. This is
> currently happening on my sysvinit
> What are the security problems with IRC? I use it to chat in ASCII and
> make a log. Evidently it has other, more dangerous capabilities I'm
> not aware of.
>
https://www.google.com/search?q=irc+client+exploit
Are there any drawbacks to naming the root account something other
> than 'root'? P
>
> > Puppy Linux is interesting. I used it for awhile and liked that it was
> fast,
> > and fun. A bit lacking in software, but with the Slacko packages you can
> > make it better. My main concern about it was that it logs you in as root
> > (without even a password). A lot of people have expresse
> https://lwn.net/Articles/629259/ covers the most recent flare-up when
> somebody wanted to make the AST of GCC accessible.
>
> > This is not the first post in which this spamgourmet account is
> > spreading FUD. We may need to react to this beyond argumenting.
>
> I don't see anything I said on t
Ста Деюс wrote:
>
> Oh NO! No deal w/ the criminal groups!
>>
>
> Well, that just leaves (IBAN) credit transfers.
> Cheques where abolished in 2000. Postal money orders in 2002.
> Apparently some banks process some US cheques, but they charge
> extortionate fees.
>
> ... and they are also crimina
My personal opinion is that right now, working code and a deployable,
reviewable distro will do significantly more for the furtherance of the
project than any kind of policy statement.
On 13 March 2015 at 18:56, T.J. Duchene wrote:
> Thank you, Jaromil, I appreciate the specific mention.
>
> My
> Just to clarify... *Java will run* with a grsecurity hardened kernel,
> with pax enabled. It just needs mprotect disabled for the specific programs
> that need it disabled. (and also many other things need this... python,
> kdeinit4, skype, kscreenlocker_greet, thunderbird, firefox,
> plugin-con
apt-get install linux-headers-$(uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,') virtualbox
On 8 March 2015 at 03:39, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Sat, 7 Mar 2015 02:11:35 +0100
> Jaromil wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > This is the initial release of the Alpha series, base-system stripped
> > at minimum and distri
I am not sure I follow - is the plan for Devuan to be default
hardened/grsec, or is it supposed to be an optional choice somehow? As was
already pointed out, java won't run. Lots and lots of server workloads run
Java
On 7 March 2015 at 12:42, Jaromil wrote:
>
> dear Neo Futur and other membe
http://linux.slashdot.org/story/15/03/06/1448247/ubuntu-to-officially-switch-to-systemd-next-monday
Interesting discussion on slashdot, especially about the Ubuntu Release
Schedule
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**Looks around**
Full moon tonight?
On 5 March 2015 at 19:51, wrote:
> I want to add my thoughts and feelings to this conversation.
>
> But since this is my first message to this list, here're a few links of
> my tips, user-to-user (I'm not an expert and I'm just a fraction of a
> programmer if
> these sketches by xiep are sweet, but I wouldn't like to follow up on
> the monkey metaphore.
>
Also, Ximian already did the monkey thing...
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can we keep politics off this list please.
On 4 March 2015 at 23:29, Tom Collins wrote:
> Ста Деюс: As a royssian what do you think of the murder of
> Boris? Do you like Vladimir Putin. And what do you make of this:
>
> "Snowden ‘working exhaustively’ with US to secure terms of trial"
>
> Why d
...CTF?
On 1 March 2015 at 20:20, envite wrote:
> As some of you know, I'm in the CTF.
>
> Being here, I wonder:
>
> Can Devuan be a security-aware, privacy-aware distro?
>
> Er Envite
>
>
> Enviado de Samsung Mobile
>
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> Dng@li
> A few months ago, the festival accès)s( in Pau (France) invited the
> audience to
> take a critical look at the idea of a techno-driven progress, at a
> propaganda
> machine that promise that new 'advances' in information and communication
> technologies will solve our problems and fulfill the dr
>
> this coming from the person that has the initials for "shut the hell up"
> as their signature.
>
"sthu" is actually how you would spell "Ста" in Latin - he is simply
singing off with his first name, like a normal person.
"С" = "S" in English
"т" = "th" phonetically in English
"а" = "u" phonet
> OFFLIST
>
Glad it was not OFFLIST - it shows true colors.
> I'd suggest we not discuss the meaning or connotation of "kickass"
> anymore. The guy who originally had the hissy-fit, Ста Деюс, had been on
> the list one whole day (with three basically non-contributory posts)
> when he decided to
>
> So, i see for protection two ways: technical, like minimalism for easy
> forking, and community driven development of the project.
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_by_committee
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> >
> > http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/
> >
>
> some computers need a partition table on the usb-stick to boot.
>
>
unetbootin should take care of that
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> > > for example
> > > dd if=/home/daffyduck/download/devian.iso of=/dev/sde
>
> Did that.
>
> Wouldn't boot.
>
http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/
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> Martijn seems to have a solution for polls, let's do that instead.
> > FWIW.
>
> yes that is a kind offer. I do believe surveys help to choose things the
> LEAN way, keeping in touch with the general sense, so yes Martijn we'll
> use it.
>
>
My pleasure, I will run something up tomorrow (packed d
who are "the general population"?
On 26 February 2015 at 14:59, Nuno Magalhães
wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 12:14 PM, Martijn Dekkers
> wrote:
> > If this is something we are going to be doing more often, I can deploy
> > https://opinahq.com/ or https://www.lim
If this is something we are going to be doing more often, I can deploy
https://opinahq.com/ or https://www.limesurvey.org/en/ (or whatever else
people prefer)
On 26 February 2015 at 13:54, Jaromil wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Feb 2015, Linuxito wrote:
>
> >Thanks Jaromil,
> >
> >We outpassed the
>
> I think of another side of the medal: how the just starting project. w/
> a lot of work to be done ahead, is going to be protected in the future
> -- to share not the fate of «Debian»?
> [...]
> But, at the first, what is planned to perform to protect «Devuan» from
> the guys, that got hold of
>
> But we have to be realistic here: in the last 15 years the
> requirements for a "minimal" install of a GNU/Linux system have
> enormously expanded in size, number and variety of packages. No distro
> can currently install a working system for less than about 1 GB, even
> without X, and this is
Concerning dbus, there is a need for publisher/subscriber communication on
> the desktop. But I wonder why people have developped dbus instead of using
> a ready-made, well-tested, lightweight, language-agnostic middleware? Yes
> it exsts; there's at least one, ZeroMQ.
>
Something something conte
> I would say +1 for everything that is written with this e-mail and above.
> However, there's one thing here,
> there are more people running servers than people running linux on their
> desktops, so IMHO devuan should first focus on the servers.
>
I strongly believe that if we manage to pull tog
>
> The thing that scares me because I suspect it's just not as well
> debugged as the software that used to run a car only a few years ago?
>
>
You overestimate the amount of debugging that goes into in-car software. I
once had an Alfa Romeo with a buggy implementation for it's tiptronic
gearbox.
> Well said KatolaZ. If they want eye-candy and software that
> incorporates human confusion, they should use Windows or Mac. For the
> person who hasn't resigned himself to being an idiot, Linux has
> Openbox, Windowmaker, LXDE, and a whole bunch of other straightforward
> user interfaces.
>
>
For
> Just for fun, try Openbox with custom key-combos, including an easy to
> hit key-combo to run dmenu. You might like to customize dmenu so its
> menu displays down the screen instead of across the top (-L).
>
> Do these things and you just might like Linux desktopping again.
>
>
Never had an issue
Agree. That's exactly why, IMHO, we should focus on what GNU/Linux
> does better, and refrain from gladly and blindly embracing the last
> miscarriage-piece-of-software "for the good of the large masses of
> desktop users". Simply put, there are no large masses of desktop
> users, and IMHO never wi
Nice post, thanks!
My €0.02 - About the time that MS introduced "Software Assurance" (2002 or
so?) I headed up a team to develop an "Enterprise Linux Desktop", and we
had great success. Although we didn't manage to fully execute on our
mission (deploy to 10.000 workstations for organization I was
Can we make some option with a "ban this user" link at the bottom of
emails, and when enough listusers click the link, a message is flagged for
review?
On 11 February 2015 at 20:41, Usspookes Lovesystemd <
usspookslovesyste...@muchomail.com> wrote:
> Nothing is completely secure, there is always
Hi,
The reason why RedHat develops and enforces systemd is clear to me: they
> have customers paying for a ready-made system that RedHat would maintain.
> They want to increase their productivity by introducing tools which
> automate things as much as possible, plus security-related features -- a
I have come to the conclusion that they are basically re-inventing *nix -
the ultimate "Not Invented Here" implementation
On 2 February 2015 at 19:22, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Feb 2015 13:02:51 +0200
> Martijn Dekkers wrote:
>
> > http://ma.ttias.be/whats
I found this an interesting read:
* read ahead implementation dropped: in the age of SSDs the benefit is not
big enough to have this. All systemd developers have SSDs and no more
spinning disks, nobody could/wanted to support this anymore. The idea was
to read-ahead the bits needed during the boot
http://ma.ttias.be/whats-new-systemd-2015-edition/
tl;dr everything, including the kitchensink.
Some of the listed stuff looks/sounds pretty cool, I just have serious
reservations of all this stuff belonging to one team. I find it very hard
to see how any kind of quality can be maintained when de
http://linux.slashdot.org/story/15/01/14/2030259/systemd-gains-new-networking-features
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On 5 January 2015 at 07:47, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult <
enrico.weig...@gr13.net> wrote:
> On 05.01.2015 00:40, Jude Nelson wrote:
>
> >> In VAX/VMS there was a feature that could in theory be useful,
> >> though I've never seen it actually used. Fila permissions could
> >> forbid the root
Yep, also Poettering is a big fan and supporter of TPM, and stated on a
recent podcast (that was linked in this list I think) something along the
lines of "Once we all run systemd, TPM will finally work properly." TPM of
course is the continuation of the Clipper Chip, but dolled up to get the
hard
Who let Ruben off the leash?
On 21 December 2014 at 01:37, Ruben Safir wrote:
>
> Goliath Timeline
>
> All emphasis below ours
>
> October 17, 2013: Torrent index site Isohunt shuts down after losing a
> $110 million legal battle with MPAA. The MPAA effort was led by lawyer
> Steven Fabrizio.
>
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