Re: [DNG] Systemd as tragedy

2019-02-02 Thread Alessandro Selli
On 02/02/19 at 03:41, Steve Litt wrote: > Of course, with cars, this complexity is partially > necessary because to raise MPG (Miles Per Gallon) you need a computer > to micromanage timing and amount of spark, air, fuel, and how they > interact. I know of no similar necessity with computers.  

Re: [DNG] Systemd as tragedy

2019-02-01 Thread Hendrik Boom
On Fri, Feb 01, 2019 at 08:49:34PM +0100, Alessandro Selli wrote: > On 01/02/19 at 11:19, KatolaZ wrote: > > [about 100 lines cut off] > > >   Jeez, that many?  My wife was right that I got to bed too late > yesterday night!  😄 > > > > Are you willing to help with enabling s6/s6-rc in Devuan? >

Re: [DNG] Systemd as tragedy

2019-02-01 Thread Steve Litt
On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 14:56:45 +0300 Dmitrii Kashin wrote: > I'd like to notice that Benno just repeats systemd's propaganda. All > these theses were considered in 2014 by Jude Nelson. > > Here's the link: > http://judecnelson.blogspot.com/2014/09/systemd-biggest-fallacies.html > > And (if someo

Re: [DNG] Systemd as tragedy

2019-02-01 Thread Steve Litt
On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 13:07:37 + Simon Hobson wrote: > It's clear that systemd isn't the right implementation. And it's > clear that Poettering isn't the right person to be doing it. But I'd > suggest that many of us "systemd - just say no" folks aren't > fundamentally opposed to improvements

Re: [DNG] Systemd as tragedy

2019-02-01 Thread Steve Litt
On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 16:38:28 -1000 Joel Roth via Dng wrote: > On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 12:19:44AM +0100, Alessandro Selli wrote: > > Might interest someone: > > > > https://lwn.net/Articles/777595/ > > > > [Front] Posted Jan 28, 2019 20:05 UTC (Mon) by corbet > > > > His attempt to cast that s

Re: [DNG] Systemd as tragedy

2019-02-01 Thread Alessandro Selli
[Time references are from the video on https://judecnelson.blogspot.com/2014/09/systemd-biggest-fallacies.html ] On 31/01/19 at 12:56, Dmitrii Kashin wrote: > В Чт, 31/01/2019 в 00:19 +0100, Alessandro Selli пишет: [...] > I'd like to notice that Benno just repeats systemd's propaganda.   A

Re: [DNG] Systemd as tragedy

2019-02-01 Thread Alessandro Selli
On 01/02/19 at 11:19, KatolaZ wrote: > [about 100 lines cut off]   Jeez, that many?  My wife was right that I got to bed too late yesterday night!  😄 > Are you willing to help with enabling s6/s6-rc in Devuan?   Oh my, that means I'll have to upgrade to Beowulf!  And spend lots of time tuning

Re: [DNG] Systemd as tragedy

2019-02-01 Thread Dmitrii Kashin
В Чт, 31/01/2019 в 00:19 +0100, Alessandro Selli пишет: > Might interest someone: > > https://lwn.net/Articles/777595/ Thx. As this article must be interesting to people subscribed to this list, I attach a free link: https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/777595/8f021897f452e5b4/ I'd like to notice tha

Re: [DNG] Systemd as tragedy

2019-02-01 Thread KatolaZ
On Fri, Feb 01, 2019 at 12:33:32AM +0100, Alessandro Selli wrote: > On 31/01/19 at 03:38, Joel Roth via Dng wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 12:19:44AM +0100, Alessandro Selli wrote: > >> Might interest someone: > >> > >> https://lwn.net/Articles/777595/ > >> > >> [Front] Posted Jan 28, 2019 20:

Re: [DNG] Systemd as tragedy

2019-01-31 Thread Joel Roth via Dng
Alessandro Selli wrote: > On 31/01/19 at 03:38, Joel Roth via Dng wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 12:19:44AM +0100, Alessandro Selli wrote: > >> Might interest someone: > >> > >> https://lwn.net/Articles/777595/ > >> > >> [Front] Posted Jan 28, 2019 20:05 UTC (Mon) by corbet > >> > >> His attem

Re: [DNG] Systemd as tragedy

2019-01-31 Thread Simon Hobson
Alessandro Selli wrote: >> Hard to believe I listened to the same talk Corbet >> is describing. What I heard was a propaganda piece, >> finding reasons to sell the systemd approach >> to BSD conference attendees. > > Not really. He points out there were good reasons to want a new init, > that

Re: [DNG] Systemd as tragedy

2019-01-31 Thread Alessandro Selli
On 31/01/19 at 03:38, Joel Roth via Dng wrote: > On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 12:19:44AM +0100, Alessandro Selli wrote: >> Might interest someone: >> >> https://lwn.net/Articles/777595/ >> >> [Front] Posted Jan 28, 2019 20:05 UTC (Mon) by corbet >> >> His attempt to cast that story for the >> pleasure

Re: [DNG] Systemd as tragedy

2019-01-31 Thread lpb+devuan
On 1/31/19 7:50 AM, Martin Steigerwald wrote: > Simon Hobson - 31.01.19, 14:07: >> Massimo Coppola wrote: > […] >> It's clear that systemd isn't the right implementation. And it's clear >> that Poettering isn't the right person to be doing it. But I'd >> suggest that many of us "systemd - just s

Re: [DNG] Systemd as tragedy

2019-01-31 Thread Clarke Sideroad via Dng
On 2019-01-31 1:22 a.m., Rick Moen wrote: As I'm (like you) an LWN.net subscriber, I can furnish a 'subscriber link' for the benefit of Dng readers. Enjoy. https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/777595/c64f9542bdd40595/ Thanks Rick, I appreciate this. Reading it was like reading the incomplete logic

Re: [DNG] Systemd as tragedy

2019-01-31 Thread hal
On 1/31/19 12:22 AM, Rick Moen wrote: As I'm (like you) an LWN.net subscriber, I can furnish a 'subscriber link' for the benefit of Dng readers. Enjoy. https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/777595/c64f9542bdd40595/ Thanks, Rick. Interesting read. Regarding systemd..If it were as grand as the su

Re: [DNG] Systemd as tragedy

2019-01-31 Thread Martin Steigerwald
Simon Hobson - 31.01.19, 14:07: > Massimo Coppola wrote: […] > It's clear that systemd isn't the right implementation. And it's clear > that Poettering isn't the right person to be doing it. But I'd > suggest that many of us "systemd - just say no" folks aren't > fundamentally opposed to improveme

Re: [DNG] Systemd as tragedy

2019-01-31 Thread Simon Hobson
Massimo Coppola wrote: > But I guess there's no need either to list all technical systemd issues here, > or accept the unsound logic that unkind developers are the only reason of > systemd criticism. With all the hot air, I suspect that many people have lost sight of the distinction between a

Re: [DNG] Systemd as tragedy

2019-01-31 Thread mett
On 2019年1月31日 15:22:57 JST, Rick Moen wrote: >Quoting Alessandro Selli (alessandrose...@linux.com): > >> Might interest someone: >> >> https://lwn.net/Articles/777595/ >> >> [Front] Posted Jan 28, 2019 20:05 UTC (Mon) by corbet >> >> Tragedy, according to Wikipedia, is "a form of drama based o

Re: [DNG] Systemd as tragedy

2019-01-31 Thread Massimo Coppola
Hi all, I don't contribute often to the list, but I really found irritating that after setting a cuckoo egg in the nest someone comes and start telling everyone how much nice is the deviant bird. I think Lars Noodén already pointed out, the news is that the target of systemd propaganda is the

Re: [DNG] Systemd as tragedy

2019-01-31 Thread al3xu5 / dotcommon
Il giorno mercoledì 30/01/2019 18:57:05 -0600 goli...@dyne.org ha scritto: > On 2019-01-30 17:19, Alessandro Selli wrote: > > Might interest someone: > > > > https://lwn.net/Articles/777595/ > > > > [Front] Posted Jan 28, 2019 20:05 UTC (Mon) by corbet > > > > Tragedy, according to Wikipedia,

Re: [DNG] Systemd as tragedy

2019-01-31 Thread Lars Noodén via Dng
On 1/31/19 4:38 AM, Joel Roth via Dng wrote: > On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 12:19:44AM +0100, Alessandro Selli wrote: >> Might interest someone: >> >> https://lwn.net/Articles/777595/ >> >> [Front] Posted Jan 28, 2019 20:05 UTC (Mon) by corbet >> >> His attempt to cast that story for the >> pleasure of

[DNG] Systemd as tragedy

2019-01-30 Thread Edward Bartolo via Dng
Whether systemd is a tragedy or not, I will not say, but whenever I tried it, I was always greeted with OS crashes. At first, I tried to use it for a media player but, needless to state, the OS crashed for no reason. With an SD card as the storage medium this becomes a nuisance as one has to take o

Re: [DNG] Systemd as tragedy

2019-01-30 Thread Rick Moen
Quoting Alessandro Selli (alessandrose...@linux.com): > Might interest someone: > > https://lwn.net/Articles/777595/ > > [Front] Posted Jan 28, 2019 20:05 UTC (Mon) by corbet > > Tragedy, according to Wikipedia, is "a form of drama based on human > suffering that invokes an accompanying cathar

Re: [DNG] Systemd as tragedy

2019-01-30 Thread Joel Roth via Dng
On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 12:19:44AM +0100, Alessandro Selli wrote: > Might interest someone: > > https://lwn.net/Articles/777595/ > > [Front] Posted Jan 28, 2019 20:05 UTC (Mon) by corbet > > His attempt to cast that story for the > pleasure of his audience resulted in a sympathetic and nuanced

Re: [DNG] Systemd as tragedy

2019-01-30 Thread Bruce Ferrell
On 1/30/19 4:57 PM, goli...@dyne.org wrote: On 2019-01-30 17:19, Alessandro Selli wrote: Might interest someone: https://lwn.net/Articles/777595/  [Front] Posted Jan 28, 2019 20:05 UTC (Mon) by corbet Tragedy, according to Wikipedia, is "a form of drama based on human suffering that invokes a

Re: [DNG] Systemd as tragedy

2019-01-30 Thread Arnt Karlsen
On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 18:57:05 -0600, goli...@dyne.org wrote in message <810d7588b1d19b97a367da1d027b7...@dyne.org>: > On 2019-01-30 17:19, Alessandro Selli wrote: > > Might interest someone: > > > > https://lwn.net/Articles/777595/ > > > > [Front] Posted Jan 28, 2019 20:05 UTC (Mon) by corbet >

Re: [DNG] Systemd as tragedy

2019-01-30 Thread golinux
On 2019-01-30 17:19, Alessandro Selli wrote: Might interest someone: https://lwn.net/Articles/777595/ [Front] Posted Jan 28, 2019 20:05 UTC (Mon) by corbet Tragedy, according to Wikipedia, is "a form of drama based on human suffering that invokes an accompanying catharsis or pleasure in audie

[DNG] Systemd as tragedy

2019-01-30 Thread Alessandro Selli
Might interest someone: https://lwn.net/Articles/777595/ [Front] Posted Jan 28, 2019 20:05 UTC (Mon) by corbet Tragedy, according to Wikipedia, is "a form of drama based on human suffering that invokes an accompanying catharsis or pleasure in audiences". Benno Rice took his inspiration from tha