Re: [DNSOP] Followup Discussion on TCP keepalive proposals

2015-01-24 Thread Paul Vixie
Mark Andrews mailto:ma...@isc.org Thursday, January 22, 2015 6:29 PM In message 32707.1421975...@dash.isi.edu, John Heidemann writes: ... I'm confused. I thought we agreed the installed base doesn't do TCP pipelining basically ever. The installed base has supported pipelining forever.

Re: [DNSOP] Followup Discussion on TCP keepalive proposals

2015-01-24 Thread Mark Andrews
In message 54c40d28.7050...@redbarn.org, Paul Vixie writes: Mark Andrews mailto:ma...@isc.org Thursday, January 22, 2015 6:29 PM In message 32707.1421975...@dash.isi.edu, John Heidemann writes: ... I'm confused. I thought we agreed the installed base doesn't do TCP pipelining

Re: [DNSOP] Followup Discussion on TCP keepalive proposals

2015-01-24 Thread Paul Vixie
Mark Andrews mailto:ma...@isc.org Saturday, January 24, 2015 2:44 PM In message 54c40d28.7050...@redbarn.org, Paul Vixie writes: Pipeling over UDP has been standard practice between nameservers for 25 years. Why are we even worrying about whether it should be permitted over TCP? because

Re: [DNSOP] Followup Discussion on TCP keepalive proposals

2015-01-24 Thread Paul Vixie
Mark Delany mailto:f...@november.emu.st Saturday, January 24, 2015 2:09 PM On 24Jan15, Paul Vixie allegedly wrote: could violate older implementations' reasonable-at-the-time assumptions, against the burden of choosing a non-interfering signal pattern, like a new port number, or a new

Re: [DNSOP] Followup Discussion on TCP keepalive proposals

2015-01-24 Thread Mark Delany
On 24Jan15, Paul Vixie allegedly wrote: could violate older implementations' reasonable-at-the-time assumptions, against the burden of choosing a non-interfering signal pattern, like a new port number, or a new protocol verb. Does it have to be that drastic? Wouldn't an EDNS option I

Re: [DNSOP] Followup Discussion on TCP keepalive proposals

2015-01-24 Thread Paul Vixie
Tony Finch mailto:d...@dotat.at Friday, January 23, 2015 10:35 AM Paul Vixie p...@redbarn.org wrote: why aren't we preferring a TCP/80 (and perhaps TCP/443) solution Inefficient encoding - wastes battery - greater serialization latency i see your point about battery, and i hadn't

Re: [DNSOP] Followup Discussion on TCP keepalive proposals

2015-01-24 Thread Tony Finch
Paul Vixie p...@redbarn.org wrote: i don't think there's any real time (measurable) difference in serialization (and deserialization) latency. Sorry, I was being too terse. I meant extra latency due to the time taken to transmit all that redundant data. Tony. -- f.anthony.n.finch

Re: [DNSOP] Followup Discussion on TCP keepalive proposals

2015-01-24 Thread Mark Andrews
In message 20150124220926.82207.qm...@f5-external.bushwire.net, Mark Delany writes: On 24Jan15, Paul Vixie allegedly wrote: could violate older implementations' reasonable-at-the-time assumptions, against the burden of choosing a non-interfering signal pattern, like a new port number,

Re: [DNSOP] Followup Discussion on TCP keepalive proposals

2015-01-24 Thread Mark Andrews
In message 54c424f2.4020...@redbarn.org, Paul Vixie writes: Mark Delany mailto:f...@november.emu.st Saturday, January 24, 2015 2:09 PM On 24Jan15, Paul Vixie allegedly wrote: could violate older implementations' reasonable-at-the-time assumptions, against the burden of choosing a

Re: [DNSOP] Followup Discussion on TCP keepalive proposals

2015-01-24 Thread Mark Andrews
In message 54c4267a.9030...@redbarn.org, Paul Vixie writes: Mark Andrews mailto:ma...@isc.org Saturday, January 24, 2015 2:44 PM In message 54c40d28.7050...@redbarn.org, Paul Vixie writes: Pipeling over UDP has been standard practice between nameservers for 25 years. Why are we even

[DNSOP] P2PNames Draft 04: we're adding MORECOWBELL

2015-01-24 Thread hellekin
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Dear list members, today the French newspaper Le Monde published information on a secret NSA program, MORECOWBELL [0], that reveals the agency has been using the DNS infrastructure to monitor host and website activity across the Internet. This

Re: [DNSOP] P2PNames Draft 04: we're adding MORECOWBELL

2015-01-24 Thread Paul Ferguson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 1/24/2015 7:15 AM, hellekin wrote: today the French newspaper Le Monde published information on a secret NSA program, MORECOWBELL [0], that reveals the agency has been using the DNS infrastructure to monitor host and website activity across

Re: [DNSOP] P2PNames Draft 04: we're adding MORECOWBELL

2015-01-24 Thread Stephane Bortzmeyer
On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 07:29:27AM -0800, Paul Ferguson fergdawgs...@mykolab.com wrote a message of 47 lines which said: I have not found delved into the MCB documents in depth, but from the cursory description, this sound like nothing more than Passive DNS monitoring, No, MoreCowBell

Re: [DNSOP] P2PNames Draft 04: we're adding MORECOWBELL

2015-01-24 Thread Paul Ferguson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 1/24/2015 7:58 AM, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 07:29:27AM -0800, Paul Ferguson fergdawgs...@mykolab.com wrote a message of 47 lines which said: I have not found delved into the MCB documents in depth, but from the