On 11.5.2013, at 19.47, Daniel Parthey
wrote:
> Timo Sirainen wrote:
>> Kelsey already mentioned that lazy_expunge plugin has similar issues, and
>> nobody has mentioned privacy concerns related to that.. I guess there should
>> be something about it in the wiki. Also mdbox format doesn't physic
Timo Sirainen wrote:
> Kelsey already mentioned that lazy_expunge plugin has similar issues, and
> nobody has mentioned privacy concerns related to that.. I guess there should
> be something about it in the wiki. Also mdbox format doesn't physically
> delete the data until doveadm purge is run (if
On Tue, 2013-05-07 at 09:25 +0200, Axel Luttgens wrote:
> Reading RFCs is kind of an art.
>
That we certainly agree on :)
> Let's have a look at RFC 2119:
>
> Authors who follow these guidelines should incorporate this phrase
> near the beginning of their document:
>
>
Le 6 mai 2013 à 20:45, Kelsey Cummings a écrit :
> On 2013-05-03 19:13, Professa Dementia wrote:
>> When I specify that an email be
>> deleted from the server, I expect that it is *deleted*.
>
> While I see the point you're trying to make, I don't think it is valid. On
> our servers the deleted
Le 7 mai 2013 à 00:24, Noel Butler a écrit :
> On Mon, 2013-05-06 at 15:39 +0200, Axel Luttgens wrote:
>
>> Hmmm...
>> Let's consider the RFC's part related to, for example, the TOP command:
>>
>> If the POP3 server issues a positive response, then the
>> response given is multi-line.
On Mon, 2013-05-06 at 11:45 -0700, Kelsey Cummings wrote:
>
> While I see the point you're trying to make, I don't think it is valid.
> On our servers the deleted message could exist in filesystem snapshots,
> disk->disk backups and on tape.
That's what most people forget - until they ac
On Mon, 2013-05-06 at 15:39 +0200, Axel Luttgens wrote:
> Hmmm...
> Let's consider the RFC's part related to, for example, the TOP command:
>
> If the POP3 server issues a positive response, then the
> response given is multi-line. After the initial +OK, the
> POP3 server sen
On 2013-05-03 19:13, Professa Dementia wrote:
When I specify that an email be
deleted from the server, I expect that it is *deleted*.
While I see the point you're trying to make, I don't think it is valid.
On our servers the deleted message could exist in filesystem snapshots,
disk->disk bac
Le 6 mai 2013 à 01:59, Noel Butler a écrit :
> On Sat, 2013-05-04 at 05:29 -0700, Professa Dementia wrote:
>
>> [...]
>> and enabling this option makes the server non-compliant. The section
>> under "The UPDATE State" is clear about the behavior of the server:
>>
>> "The POP3 server removes al
On Sat, 2013-05-04 at 05:29 -0700, Professa Dementia wrote:
> On 5/3/2013 7:38 PM, Noel Butler wrote:
>
> >
> > Incidentally, the last time I read the pop3 RFC, admittedly some decade
> > or so ago (and yeah it's likely been updated since?) I can not recall
> > there ever being a "MUST" or "SHOU
On 05/05/2013 03:40 PM, Timo Sirainen wrote:
On 5.5.2013, at 22.32, Gedalya wrote:
On 05/05/2013 03:29 PM, Timo Sirainen wrote:
On 5.5.2013, at 22.06, Professa Dementia wrote:
This is fine. The user is informed and makes a choice about the behavior of
the server. The problem I have with
On 5.5.2013, at 22.32, Gedalya wrote:
> On 05/05/2013 03:29 PM, Timo Sirainen wrote:
>> On 5.5.2013, at 22.06, Professa Dementia wrote:
>>
>>> This is fine. The user is informed and makes a choice about the behavior
>>> of the server. The problem I have with the proposed changes by Timo is
On 05/05/2013 03:29 PM, Timo Sirainen wrote:
On 5.5.2013, at 22.06, Professa Dementia wrote:
This is fine. The user is informed and makes a choice about the behavior of
the server. The problem I have with the proposed changes by Timo is that the
user is *not* informed and has no choice. T
On 5.5.2013, at 22.06, Professa Dementia wrote:
> This is fine. The user is informed and makes a choice about the behavior of
> the server. The problem I have with the proposed changes by Timo is that the
> user is *not* informed and has no choice. The user may expect that the
> server beha
On 5/5/2013 11:20 AM, Oscar del Rio wrote:
On 03/05/2013 12:14 PM, Timo Sirainen wrote:
GMail doesn't delete mails when POP3 client issues a DELE command for
it. Instead they just become invisible for future POP3 sessions, but
they still exist for IMAP/webmail. The same could be implemented
pret
On 03/05/2013 12:14 PM, Timo Sirainen wrote:
GMail doesn't delete mails when POP3 client issues a DELE command for it.
Instead they just become invisible for future POP3 sessions, but they still
exist for IMAP/webmail. The same could be implemented pretty easily for Dovecot:
- Add a new sett
On 4.5.2013, at 15.29, Professa Dementia wrote:
>> Incidentally, the last time I read the pop3 RFC, admittedly some decade
>> or so ago (and yeah it's likely been updated since?) I can not recall
>> there ever being a "MUST" or "SHOULD" when it comes to deleting
>> messages (it might have been d
On 5/3/2013 7:38 PM, Noel Butler wrote:
Incidentally, the last time I read the pop3 RFC, admittedly some decade
or so ago (and yeah it's likely been updated since?) I can not recall
there ever being a "MUST" or "SHOULD" when it comes to deleting
messages (it might have been deliberately omitte
On 4.5.2013, at 13.32, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> What happens to quotas in places where it is enforced? Where does the
> undeleted mail go? Does it still count towards the quota?
Good point. It does count towards quota. Worth mentioning also in the setting
docs. The mail isn't really "delete
What happens to quotas in places where it is enforced? Where does the
undeleted mail go? Does it still count towards the quota?
On 3 May 2013 19:14, Timo Sirainen wrote:
> GMail doesn't delete mails when POP3 client issues a DELE command for it.
> Instead they just become invisible for future P
On 4/05/2013 8:10 PM, Axel Luttgens wrote:
Le 4 mai 2013 à 00:44, Timo Sirainen a écrit :
I didn't ask what their main reason for this was, but for me it
would be: "Oops, I accidentally configured my new email client as
POP3 instead of IMAP, and now it deleted everything from my INBOX."
With la
Le 4 mai 2013 à 00:44, Timo Sirainen a écrit :
> I didn't ask what their main reason for this was, but for me it would be:
> "Oops, I accidentally configured my new email client as POP3 instead of IMAP,
> and now it deleted everything from my INBOX." With lazy_expunge the user
> would have to e
timo
thank you very much for your wonderful work on dovecot
the new feature that you are thinking about is very useful
this is an excellent solution and is used by a quite a few large isps /
mailing providers like rediff. And i believe blackberry also does
something similar. ie if configure the
On Sat, 2013-05-04 at 00:06 +0200, Simon Brereton wrote:
>
> The EU laws not withstanding, I think this is a good thing. The world
> didn't revolve around the EU anymore than it does the US.
Actually you may be wrong there, Australia and IIRC New Zealand, seem to
follow suite with the EU. and
On 05/03/2013 10:13 PM, Professa Dementia wrote:
On 5/3/2013 3:44 PM, Timo Sirainen wrote:
On 4.5.2013, at 1.27, Kelsey Cummings wrote:
On 2013-05-03 09:14, Timo Sirainen wrote:
GMail doesn't delete mails when POP3 client issues a DELE command for
it. Instead they just become invisible for f
On Fri, 2013-05-03 at 12:40 -0700, Professa Dementia wrote:
>
> Google has already admitted that they do not delete email, even when
Google does many may many non compliant things.
> those emails are deleted from the Trash. Google states that emails may
> be archived for a minimum of 2 mo
On 5/3/2013 3:44 PM, Timo Sirainen wrote:
On 4.5.2013, at 1.27, Kelsey Cummings wrote:
On 2013-05-03 09:14, Timo Sirainen wrote:
GMail doesn't delete mails when POP3 client issues a DELE command for
it. Instead they just become invisible for future POP3 sessions, but
they still exist for IMAP
On 2013-05-03 15:44, Timo Sirainen wrote:
I didn't ask what their main reason for this was, but for me it would
be: "Oops, I accidentally configured my new email client as POP3
instead of IMAP, and now it deleted everything from my INBOX." With
lazy_expunge the user would have to explicitly go an
On 4.5.2013, at 1.27, Kelsey Cummings wrote:
> On 2013-05-03 09:14, Timo Sirainen wrote:
>> GMail doesn't delete mails when POP3 client issues a DELE command for
>> it. Instead they just become invisible for future POP3 sessions, but
>> they still exist for IMAP/webmail. The same could be impleme
On 2013-05-03 09:14, Timo Sirainen wrote:
GMail doesn't delete mails when POP3 client issues a DELE command for
it. Instead they just become invisible for future POP3 sessions, but
they still exist for IMAP/webmail. The same could be implemented
pretty easily for Dovecot:
How does the usage cas
On 3 May 2013 18:14, "Timo Sirainen" wrote:
>
> GMail doesn't delete mails when POP3 client issues a DELE command for it.
Instead they just become invisible for future POP3 sessions, but they still
exist for IMAP/webmail. The same could be implemented pretty easily for
Dovecot:
>
> - Add a new se
On 05/03/2013 04:00 PM, lst_ho...@kwsoft.de wrote:
But for simply leave mail on server with POP3 most MUAs have this
feature anyway today, no? So at least for Thunderbird and Outlook this
couldn't be the only use-case. Most requests i have seen where because of
- Misguided user using POP3 on dif
On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Timo Sirainen wrote:
> I'll add a comment to the setting that enabling it may violate (EU)
> privacy laws.
Please consider a stronger, broader statement saying that enabling it may
violate user's expectations of privacy.
I'm not in a position to cite chapter and
Zitat von Timo Sirainen :
On 3.5.2013, at 20.30, Tom Hendrikx wrote:
On 03-05-13 18:49, lst_ho...@kwsoft.de wrote:
Zitat von Timo Sirainen :
GMail doesn't delete mails when POP3 client issues a DELE command for
it. Instead they just become invisible for future POP3 sessions, but
they sti
On 3.5.2013, at 22.40, Professa Dementia wrote:
> Be careful about adding features just for the sake of adding features.
> Dovecot is already a powerful, but quite complex. This would make it even
> more complex and non-standard. POP and IMAP clients do not expect this
> behavior from the se
On 5/3/2013 11:36 AM, Timo Sirainen wrote:
On 3.5.2013, at 19.55, Robert Schetterer wrote:
Am 03.05.2013 18:14, schrieb Timo Sirainen:
GMail doesn't delete mails when POP3 client issues a DELE command for it.
Instead they just become invisible for future POP3 sessions, but they still
exist
On 3.5.2013, at 19.55, Robert Schetterer wrote:
> Am 03.05.2013 18:14, schrieb Timo Sirainen:
>> GMail doesn't delete mails when POP3 client issues a DELE command for it.
>> Instead they just become invisible for future POP3 sessions, but they still
>> exist for IMAP/webmail. The same could be
On 3.5.2013, at 20.30, Tom Hendrikx wrote:
> On 03-05-13 18:49, lst_ho...@kwsoft.de wrote:
>>
>> Zitat von Timo Sirainen :
>>
>>> GMail doesn't delete mails when POP3 client issues a DELE command for
>>> it. Instead they just become invisible for future POP3 sessions, but
>>> they still exist f
On 03-05-13 18:49, lst_ho...@kwsoft.de wrote:
>
> Zitat von Timo Sirainen :
>
>> GMail doesn't delete mails when POP3 client issues a DELE command for
>> it. Instead they just become invisible for future POP3 sessions, but
>> they still exist for IMAP/webmail. The same could be implemented
>> pre
imap
sometimes.
> From: t...@iki.fi
> Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 19:14:19 +0300
> To: dovecot@dovecot.org
> Subject: [Dovecot] Idea: POP3 deletion as a flag
>
> GMail doesn't delete mails when POP3 client issues a DELE command for it.
> Instead they just become invisible for futur
Am 03.05.2013 18:14, schrieb Timo Sirainen:
> GMail doesn't delete mails when POP3 client issues a DELE command for it.
> Instead they just become invisible for future POP3 sessions, but they still
> exist for IMAP/webmail. The same could be implemented pretty easily for
> Dovecot:
>
> - Add a
Zitat von Timo Sirainen :
GMail doesn't delete mails when POP3 client issues a DELE command
for it. Instead they just become invisible for future POP3 sessions,
but they still exist for IMAP/webmail. The same could be implemented
pretty easily for Dovecot:
- Add a new setting to enable
On 5/3/2013 6:14 PM, Timo Sirainen wrote:
GMail doesn't delete mails when POP3 client issues a DELE command for it.
Instead they just become invisible for future POP3 sessions, but they still
exist for IMAP/webmail. The same could be implemented pretty easily for Dovecot:
- Add a new setting
I can certainly see this being very useful in certain environments where
asking the client to be responsible is not an option (ISP).
Whether or not the flag affects IMAP clients should be configurable.
On 05/03/2013 12:14 PM, Timo Sirainen wrote:
GMail doesn't delete mails when POP3 client iss
GMail doesn't delete mails when POP3 client issues a DELE command for it.
Instead they just become invisible for future POP3 sessions, but they still
exist for IMAP/webmail. The same could be implemented pretty easily for Dovecot:
- Add a new setting to enable this: pop3_deleted_flag = $POP3Del
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