Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: A critique

From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [ecolo...@listserv.umd.edu] On Behalf Of William Silvert [cien...@silvert.org] Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 10:38 AM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: Decline in education- student's persp

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: Decline in education- student's perspective

sell" To: Sent: sábado, 23 de Janeiro de 2010 6:20 Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: Decline in education- student's perspective A good friend of mine, an older gentleman who has worked as president for an environmental NGO in the northeast for years, put it to m

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: Decline in education- student's perspective

e people figure out on their own that college isn't for them, hm? - Derek E. Pursell --- On Fri, 1/22/10, Wayne Tyson wrote: From: Wayne Tyson Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: Decline in education- student's perspective To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Date: Friday, January

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: Decline in education- student's perspective

this latter falling largely upon the backs of ecologists, who are trying to keep each other honest. I drink a toast to you all! WT "'Tis friction's . . . brisk rub, that provides the vital spark!" --Alexander Reid Martin - Original Message - From: "

[ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: Decline in education- student's perspective

eaching them and not shoveling in, then purging information. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news > > [mailto:ecolo...@listserv.umd.edu] On Behalf Of Val Smith > > Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 6:14 PM > &

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Fwd: Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all

Martin (I apologize to all list members who might be offended and to the moderator for not being able to express myself more effectively), but it sounds to me like you are suggesting that we "baffle 'em with b.s." If that is how providing help to activists works, then those some people are jus

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: IQ

lege?". Therefore, only the situation faced by top-performing low-income students is relevant. Best, Jane _ > From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news > [ecolo...@listserv.umd.edu] On Behalf Of Jane Shevtsov [jane@gmail.com] > Sent

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Fwd: Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all

It seems to me that many, though not all, posts on this thread are taking a rather narrow view of "communication." When a scientist publishes an article describing his/her research, is this merely broadcasting methods, data, and interpretation? Of course not. Every utterance, spoken or wr

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: IQ

In response to the suggestion that lack of money removes bright students from the college pool Jane Shevtsov wrote: > I don't think this would be a very strong influence. Bright students > with little money get financial aid, sometimes to the point of a free > ride. It may be harder for middle-cla

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: Decline in education

While I agree that all the distractions mentioned are present and available, I don't think they constitute any greater distraction than was available to earlier generations of students. I know that I found ways to lose focus way back in the day, when even Dungeons and Dragons was far in the fu

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: IQ

I don't think this would be a very strong influence. Bright students with little money get financial aid, sometimes to the point of a free ride. It may be harder for middle-class students than for those who are poor, but still, schools compete to get the really good students. Jane On Tue, Jan 19,

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Now I've seen it all: IQ

Luanne et al; I would like to refute the idea that income relates to college attendance or performance.  My family was considered low-income back in the 80s when I first decided to go to college.  I applied for and received some scholarships and financial aid, and probably too many student loans

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: Decline in education

Dave has hit upon a major difference between today's students and those in the past: a strong tendency towards continuous multi-tasking, and failing to focus upon one thing at a time. For the last month or so I have been mentoring an undergraduate at KU who approached me for assistance with h

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: IQ

I have been wondering if the increase in the unequal distribution of wealth and the increased costs of higher education might be causing a large shift towards college students who fall into the middle of the bell curve. I recall reading at least one study which showed no relationship between w

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: Decline in education

Why would this discussion give the impression that students are taking only one ecology course? To earn a bachelor's degree today, you have to take about 120 semester hours. To hear a bachelor's degree in the Archaean (when I was an undergrad), you had to about 120 semester hours. Textbooks

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: Decline in education

y, January 19, 2010 6:14 PM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: Decline in education Just for information's sake, more than a decade ago I helped to create the University of Kansas' Center for Teaching Excellence (http://www.cte.ku.edu), and

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: Decline in education

Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 6:14 PM > To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU > Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: Decline in education > > Just for information's sake, more than a decade ago I helped to create > the University of Kansas' Center for Teaching Excell

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Fwd: Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all

As scientists, we should always consider the accuracy and precision of our work. Science is wondering and testing and sharing, over and over again. Our communication is part of the sharing phase; we must make sure our words convey our messages. Sometimes jargon, baroque phrasing, and other tools a

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: Decline in education

rubric (tell me what I want to hear) that is "interpreted" by a > GTA. Professorial laziness? > > -Original Message- > From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news > [mailto:ecolo...@listserv.umd.edu] On Behalf Of Val Smith > Sent: Tuesday, January 19,

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: Decline in education

I don't think that students' education level has declined. 20-30 years ago, few high school students went to higher education, but now, having a bachelor degree is almost required for many jobs. In response to the demand for higher education, many universities increased school capacities, inst

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: Decline in education

me what I want to hear) that is "interpreted" by a GTA. Professorial laziness? -Original Message- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ecolo...@listserv.umd.edu] On Behalf Of Val Smith Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 9:28 AM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.E

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: Decline in education

I can't imagine what data could objectively show whether education has gotten worse. Education has changed with changes in both technology and education theory. Even if standardized tests (and the pool of students taking them) had not changed, scores on them probably would, yet those changes in s

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: Decline in education

Try the Socratic Method sometime. I did, for my entire career of 40 years. But, it was not popular, though I was sometimes (and sometimes definitely not) a popular instructor. The general word was that I refused to answer questions (because I responded with questions intended to elicit bette

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: Decline in education

I've been teaching college biology and ecology for more than 20 yrs, and I'm not convinced that this supposed decline in student preparedness and attitudes is real. I've always had a mix of poorly- prepared, bad attitude students and well-prepared, intellectually adventurous ones. Of course,

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: Decline in education

Dave, you are not being unreasonable at all. The responses that you mention stem from intellectual laziness and/or short-term-oriented learning strategies. I, too, have had my students say, "just tell me what I need to know", and it is very clear that they indeed wish to shovel in the informa

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all -- IQ and SAT Scores

Also, SAT/ACT tests as recently as the 1980's were not required by all schools, especially if you had stellar grades. When I applied to undergrad, if you were in the upper 10% you didn't need to take the test. Now, virtually everyone takes it. Seems like you could get an increase as more and mor

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all

they feel a need to assert their status constantly. Those who are self-confident can afford to be more flexible. Bill Silvert - Original Message - From: "David M. Lawrence" To: Sent: segunda-feira, 18 de Janeiro de 2010 21:19 Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it al

Re: [ECOLOG-L] WAS: RE: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all - says Orwell; NOW: origin of foods

ilto:ecolo...@listserv.umd.edu] On Behalf Of William Silvert Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 4:06 PM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all - says Orwell I must take issue with the phrase "one of the few foods native to North America" and would like

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all

I should have chosen my words more carefully and made a distinction between "intelligent" and "educated". I didn't mean that children are becoming more stupid, as in their IQ or mental capacity. I meant that are children are becoming less and less educated. Fewer children are being given adequate o

Re: [ECOLOG-L] WAS: RE: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all - says Orwell; NOW: origin of foods

rries. Are there others? Geoff Henebry -Original Message- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ecolo...@listserv.umd.edu] On Behalf Of William Silvert Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 4:06 PM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I'

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all - says Orwell; NOW: origin of foods

Geoffrey" To: "William Silvert" ; Sent: segunda-feira, 18 de Janeiro de 2010 13:08 Subject: WAS: RE: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all - says Orwell; NOW: origin of foods Bill's mother is certainly correct: Central and South America have yielded many foods now widely

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all

an sitting on the sidewalk with his guitar. Casting his pearls before a crowd increasingly crowded with certified slippers-by . . . I weep in outrage. WT - Original Message - From: "Val Smith" To: Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: Decline in education

I watched my evaluation scores decline when I switched to "active learning." I got tired of lecturing from powerpoints that the students could memorize, regurgitate on tests, and quickly forget. Somehow, it was unreasonable for me to expect the students to show up for the lectures prepared an

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all

I'm well aware of the pressures to write badly -- bad writers who don't realize how bad they are tend to make bad editors who want everyone else to sink to their level. A lot of the conflict is the pressure to maintain the elite priesthood versus one of the alleged purposes of science, i.e., t

Re: [ECOLOG-L] WAS: RE: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all - says Orwell; NOW: origin of foods

Geoffrey, certainly pecans and hickories and their variants originated in the US. I assume that all of those western berries like salmon berries, logan berries, etc. did too, just as we have wild blackberries all over the south. The small native persimmon also is good to eat. Blueberries as ment

Re: [ECOLOG-L] WAS: RE: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all - says Orwell; NOW: origin of foods

Are there others? Geoff Henebry -Original Message- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ecolo...@listserv.umd.edu] On Behalf Of William Silvert Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 4:06 PM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all -

[ECOLOG-L] Testing Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all

inates the thinking process, diverting intelligence into ruts rather than giving it room to soar. It is the iron grip of CULTURE overwhelming the QUEST. WT - Original Message - From: "Derek Pursell" To: Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 2:14 AM Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I'

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all -- IQ and SAT Scores

Jane Shevtsov wrote: On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Alyson Mack wrote: the sad truth is, our children ARE becoming more stupid every year. The fact Do you have any evidence for this claim? IQ scores have been rising pretty steadily for a century. (Look up the Flynn effect

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all

Jane Shevtsov wrote: Yes, it would be interesting to see some scans of the book, although somebody who has actually taken a college-level health class would be better positioned than I am to compare the book to modern ones. ... And here are Orwell's prescriptions: "(i) Never use a metaphor, simi

[ECOLOG-L] WAS: RE: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all - says Orwell; NOW: origin of foods

thers? Geoff Henebry -Original Message- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ecolo...@listserv.umd.edu] On Behalf Of William Silvert Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 4:06 PM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all - says Orwe

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all - says Orwell; NOW: origin of foods

dn't have come from North America. And don't try to tell an Italian that pomodori are not native to Italy! Bill Silvert - Original Message - From: "Henebry, Geoffrey" To: "William Silvert" ; Sent: segunda-feira, 18 de Janeiro de 2010 13:08 Subject: WAS:

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: Decline in education

On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 2:04 PM, Val Smith wrote: > I lay much of this decline at the feet of their parents, who seem to care > progressively less and less about knowledge. I recall a particularly > notable incident from over a decade ago, when my youngest daughter's grade > school Principal ret

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Fwd: Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all

make sure that person clearly understood everything I said. David McNeely On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 8:08 PM, David M. Lawrence wrote: Forwarded at Henshel's request... Original Message Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all

From: David M. Lawrence Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 1:44 PM As a scientist AND a journalist, I would say that Orwell is right, and that you seem to be sorely misguided.  There is nothing wrong with writing

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all

vert - Original Message - From: "Cara Lin Bridgman" To: Sent: domingo, 17 de Janeiro de 2010 10:16 Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all Orwell, via Jane Shevsov, makes excellent points. These are points I keep trying to make to my students who are Taiwanese, b

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all

eventually forced to use the generic names "species A" and "species B". Bill Silvert - Original Message - From: "David M. Lawrence" To: Sent: domingo, 17 de Janeiro de 2010 18:44 Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all As a scientist AND

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all

At age 60, I estimate that I personally have taught, advised, and mentored more than 2,500 college undergraduates over a period of 37 years. From 2007-2009, I also served as Interim Director of KU's Undergraduate Biology Program, the single largest undergraduate teaching unit at the University

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all

From: malcolm McCallum Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 19:11:47 -0600 At what point does the scientific community realize that the current surge in patent medicines and nonsense medical devices are seriously eroding the nation's confidence in science? This is not directly related to ecology, but ecology

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all

bject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all I'm shocked to find myself defending the general public, but I do think that you are grossly overstating the issue. The American understanding of advertising is complex. Individual's reactions are not simply based on what they are told, espe

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all - says Orwell

Geoff Henebry -Original Message- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ecolo...@listserv.umd.edu] On Behalf Of William Silvert Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 11:09 AM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all - says Orwell It i

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all - says Orwell

ilable for sale. Even for those who are not foodies, there is some material of ecological interest as well. Bill Silvert - Original Message - From: "Henebry, Geoffrey" To: "William Silvert" ; Sent: domingo, 17 de Janeiro de 2010 19:24 Subject: RE: [ECOLOG-L] now

[ECOLOG-L] Fwd: Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all

Forwarded at Henshel's request... Original Message Subject:Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 20:56:25 -0500 From: Diane S. Henshel To: David M. Lawrence CC: ECOLOG-L@listserv.umd.edu Thank you David, I agree with

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all - says Orwell

and the removal of expectations that a given statement is the end rather than the beginning of communication. WT - Original Message - From: "William Silvert" To: Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all - says Orwell

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all (lengthy)

colo...@listserv.umd..edu Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 7:11:47 PM Subject: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all At what point does the scientific community realize that the current surge in patent medicines and nonsense medical devices are seriously eroding the nation's confidence in scienc

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all

: Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all > Is it really oversimplification and is it really a problem? I agree > that things 8th graders were reading 100 years ago are things college > students struggle with now. Take children's literature, such as Alice > in Wonderland (whi

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all

As a scientist AND a journalist, I would say that Orwell is right, and that you seem to be sorely misguided. There is nothing wrong with writing CLEARLY. Active voice, fewer syllables, etc., etc., do absolutely nothing to lower reading comprehension among the masses. It does absolutely nothi

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all - says Orwell

Hemingway, and that is good too. But when the general public can only read Hemingway, we are in real trouble. Bill Silvert - Original Message - From: "Jane Shevtsov" To: Sent: domingo, 17 de Janeiro de 2010 4:57 Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all And here ar

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all

On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Alyson Mack wrote: > the sad truth is, our children ARE becoming more stupid every year. The fact Do you have any evidence for this claim? IQ scores have been rising pretty steadily for a century. (Look up the Flynn effect

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all

You make a really good point and I appreciate that you are bringing up this important issue. I am an environmental educator and have worked with hundreds of students from across the country over the past few years. Here is a shocking fact I learned during my graduate studies: most of what children

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all

I'm shocked to find myself defending the general public, but I do think that you are grossly overstating the issue. The American understanding of advertising is complex. Individual's reactions are not simply based on what they are told, especially in an advertisement. If this were true, you would f

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all

Is it really oversimplification and is it really a problem? I agree that things 8th graders were reading 100 years ago are things college students struggle with now. Take children's literature, such as Alice in Wonderland (which does not present a wordy style) or What Katy Did Next (which is

[ECOLOG-L] Culture Against Society not to metion ecology Example Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all

, choose, "sensibly" not to rock the boat. WT *Perhaps it could become a fabric? ----- Original Message - From: "Jane Shevtsov" To: Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 2:19 PM Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all Let me play devil's advocate on this one.

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all

>>>> even PhD that your mentor appreciates your thinking capabilities and not >>>> your "knowledge". >>>> >>>>  What can we expect after 20 years of indoctrination in school ? and that´s >>>> for the ones that manage to

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all

t;> SKYPE: adealba55 >> >>  Tel: (465) 95-801-67, & 801-86 ext. 126, FAX ext 102 >> alternate: dealba.abra...@inifap.gob.mx >> cel: 449-157-7070 >> >> >> From: malcolm McCallum >> To: ecolo...@listserv.u

Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all

abellón Arteaga, 20660 > Aguascalientes, MEXICO > > > > SKYPE: adealba55 > >  Tel: (465) 95-801-67, & 801-86 ext. 126, FAX ext 102 > alternate: dealba.abra...@inifap.gob.mx > cel: 449-157-7070 > > > From: malcolm McCallum > To: ec

[ECOLOG-L] Marketing Extinction RE: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all

tion, both from scientists and non scientists, if we want to change things around. Sarah Frias-Torres, Ph.D. Marine Conservation Biologist http://independent.academia.edu/SarahFriasTorres > Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 19:11:47 -0600 > From: malcolm.mccal...@herpconbio.org > Subject: [ECOLOG-L] n

[ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all

At what point does the scientific community realize that the current surge in patent medicines and nonsense medical devices are seriously eroding the nation's confidence in science? This is not directly related to ecology, but ecology is science and if people misuse science to sell products that ar