Re: 2x2 tables in epi. Why Fisher test?

2001-05-14 Thread Ronald Bloom
In sci.stat.math Herman Rubin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In article <9dpcei$qcf$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > Ronald Bloom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>In sci.stat.edu Herman Rubin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> In article <9deiug$l0h$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, >>> Ronald Bloom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>

Re: 2x2 tables in epi. Why Fisher test?

2001-05-14 Thread Herman Rubin
In article <9dpcei$qcf$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ronald Bloom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >In sci.stat.edu Herman Rubin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> In article <9deiug$l0h$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, >> Ronald Bloom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>2.) The two row (col)marginals are treated as independent; and

Re: 2x2 tables in epi. Why Fisher test?

2001-05-14 Thread Ronald Bloom
In sci.stat.edu Herman Rubin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In article <9deiug$l0h$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > Ronald Bloom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>2.) The two row (col)marginals are treated as independent; and the >>observed table under the null hypothesis is regarded as >>being the result of two

Re: 2x2 tables in epi. Why Fisher test?

2001-05-14 Thread Elliot Cramer
In sci.stat.math Juha Puranen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: : Hhen N is small this is not true. Here a small example By Survo the example is irreelevaant; there are different tests of the same hypothesis eg do a t test with only the first 10 observations. Both tests are valid, the large n test is

Re: 2x2 tables in epi. Why Fisher test?

2001-05-14 Thread Juha Puranen
Elliot Cramer wrote: > > In sci.stat.consult Juha Puranen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > :> > :> Please clarify what is meant by "the distribution does not > :> involve [the fixed marginals]". I am not clear on this: > :> the Fisher test statistic (hypergeometric upper tail probability) > :> cert

Re: 2x2 tables in epi. Why Fisher test?

2001-05-13 Thread Elliot Cramer
In sci.stat.consult Juha Puranen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: :> :> Please clarify what is meant by "the distribution does not :> involve [the fixed marginals]". I am not clear on this: :> the Fisher test statistic (hypergeometric upper tail probability) :> certainly *does* depend on the fixed ma

Re: 2x2 tables in epi. Why Fisher test?

2001-05-10 Thread Juha Puranen
Ronald Bloom wrote: > > In sci.stat.consult Elliot Cramer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > In sci.stat.consult Ronald Bloom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Herman as usual is absolutely correct; the validity of the Fisher test is > > analagous to the validity of regression tests which are derived >

Re: 2x2 tables in epi. Why Fisher test?

2001-05-10 Thread David Duffy
In sci.stat.edu Ronald Bloom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It has become the custom, in epidemiological reports > to use always the hypergeometric inference test -- > The Fisher Exact Test -- when treating 2x2 tables > arising from all manner of experimental setups -- e.g. Only for tables with s

Re: 2x2 tables in epi. Why Fisher test?

2001-05-10 Thread Elliot Cramer
In sci.stat.consult Ronald Bloom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Herman as usual is absolutely correct; the validity of the Fisher test is analagous to the validity of regression tests which are derived conditional on x but, since the distribution does not involve x, are valid unconditionally even if t

Re: 2x2 tables in epi. Why Fisher test?

2001-05-10 Thread Rich Ulrich
- I offer a suggestion of a reference. On 10 May 2001 17:25:36 GMT, Ronald Bloom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [ snip, much detail ] > It has become the custom, in epidemiological reports > to use always the hypergeometric inference test -- > The Fisher Exact Test -- when treating 2x2 tables >

Re: 2x2 tables in epi. Why Fisher test?

2001-05-10 Thread Ronald Bloom
In sci.stat.consult Elliot Cramer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In sci.stat.consult Ronald Bloom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Herman as usual is absolutely correct; the validity of the Fisher test is > analagous to the validity of regression tests which are derived > conditional on x but, since the

Re: 2x2 tables in epi. Why Fisher test?

2001-05-10 Thread Ronald Bloom
In sci.stat.edu Herman Rubin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>Each one of these probability setups 1-3 gives rise to a somewhat >>different small-sample inferential test. In particular, >>the schemes (1),(2),(3) give rise to distributions conditioned >>on 3, 2, and 1 fixed parameters respectively.

Re: 2x2 tables in epi. Why Fisher test?

2001-05-10 Thread Herman Rubin
In article <9deiug$l0h$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ronald Bloom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Significance tests for 2x2 tables require that the single observed >table be regarded as if it were, (under the null hypothesis of >"uniformity" or "independence") but a single instance drawn at >random from a