I hope you all know this old chestnut has been updated for Python:
You shoot yourself in the foot and everything goes so smoothly that you go
ahead and shoot yourself in the other foot, then your leg, then your torso,
and then your head.
http://linux.sgms-centre.com/howto/shootfoot.php
At 07:2
JZ> OK, OK, I'm somewhat busted. My background in AI has caused me to become
JZ> better in LISP than your average bear, but I would never claim to be a
JZ> "real LISP programmer." The absolute truth of the matter is that I once
JZ> _was_ a real Prolog programmer. If you really want to expand your
Arthur wrote:
> John writes -
>
>
>>Of course implementing something like a queue which has state
>>(side-effects) is not pure functional programming, but real LISP
>>programmers don't worry too much about that.
>
>
> John sounds like a real LISP programmer (he's being hiding that from us
>
John writes -
>Of course implementing something like a queue which has state
>(side-effects) is not pure functional programming, but real LISP
>programmers don't worry too much about that.
John sounds like a real LISP programmer (he's being hiding that from us
until now ;) - and I am interpret
Toby Donaldson wrote:
> On 5/6/05 8:47 PM, "John Zelle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>For the record, it's very easy in LISP to implement a Queue using a
>>cons-pair with car pointing to the front of a linked list and cdr
>>pointing to the back. Using such a structure, constant time enqueue an
On 5/6/05 8:47 PM, "John Zelle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Toby Donaldson wrote:
For instance, to write an efficient queue data structure (where adding
and removing form the queue are always constant-time operations) in
LISP/Scheme requires using arrays.
>>>
>>> Hi Toby,
>
Toby Donaldson wrote:
>>>For instance, to write an efficient queue data structure (where adding
>>>and removing form the queue are always constant-time operations) in
>>>LISP/Scheme requires using arrays.
>>
>>Hi Toby,
>>
>>I don't think this is a valid criticism. If the point of using a queue i
On 4/30/05, Dan Crosta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In fact, the only areas I think Python is *not* suitable are low-level
> architecture-dependent programming. Our architecture class does
> CPU/memory stress testing using C, and our operating systems classes
> should also probably use it.
There i
>> For instance, to write an efficient queue data structure (where adding
>> and removing form the queue are always constant-time operations) in
>> LISP/Scheme requires using arrays.
>
>Hi Toby,
>
>I don't think this is a valid criticism. If the point of using a queue is
>to teach how to write an
> For instance, to write an efficient queue data structure (where adding
> and removing form the queue are always constant-time operations) in
> LISP/Scheme requires using arrays.
Hi Toby,
I don't think this is a valid criticism. If the point of using a queue is
to teach how to write an efficie
>>I've spoken to a few teachers at a school that tried the Scheme-first
>>approach, and the students generally *hated* it. I've talked to students
>>who
>>took a CS2 data structures and algorithms course in LISP, and they claimed
>>to *hate* the course --- while at the same time saying "LISP was l
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Toby Donaldson
> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 7:37 PM
> To: edu-sig@python.org
> Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] Python for CS101
>
> I've spoken to a few teachers at a schoo
> I also find it interesting that most of us here are considering it as an
> alternative to either C++ or Java, but aren't mentioning Scheme (which has
> been an intro CS language at MIT for some time).
I love Scheme and LISP, and I actually considered using it as a CS1/CS0
language a few years ag
> Let's hypothecate that C# might look a lot more like Python had it not had
> that particular design requirement.
>
It's somewhat inherent that compiled languages have this "no source code
needed" option. Python is the same way on Windows; this giant DLL in
c:\windows\system, compiled from C.
Arthur wrote:
>
[Snip]
> In an educational setting the answer is easier, and Python is fully
> self-sufficient without the .Net add-on. Except to the extent the
> educational mandate is related to introduction to the tools specific to
> closed source programming. To what extent does that need to
> -Original Message-
> From: Kirby Urner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: 'Arthur'; edu-sig@python.org
> Subject: RE: [Edu-sig] Python for CS101
>
> > Not arguing against closed source - per se. But if that is important to
> > industry,
> Not arguing against closed source - per se. But if that is important to
> industry, let industry bear the training costs.
>
>
> Art
I don't yet have a clear grasp of what parts of the .NET architecture would
be closed to a Python developer. Good question though.
In the case of Mono, the .
> -Original Message-
> From: Kirby Urner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; edu-sig@python.org
>
> I'm not sure why you think doing Python on top of .NET is a move towards
> cookie-cutter training-for-industry style programming. It's pretty much
> the
> same Python, in t
> I don't think it unreasonable to try to keep alive the notion that
> at least certain kinds of academic institutions
> would and should remain a degree removed from idea of
> training, and a degree committed to the idea of
> stimulating the development of more abstract skills
> by way of a less g
Hello Kirby,
Wednesday, May 4, 2005, 4:11:32 AM, you wrote:
KU> I like CS courses which sample (in my freshman CS course a Princeton, we
KU> played with SNOBOL, APL, PL/1, FORTRAN, and no doubt some others I've
KU> forgotten). That being said, you also need an "anchor" or "home base"
KU> languag
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>Also, down the road, I can see a CS curriculum which is pretty .NET centric,
>
>
> To me, the spirit of Python and .Net are quite unaligned.
>
[Snip...]
>
> It is also no small thing to me to feel inhibited
> from mentioning Ted's entry and hoping to stimulate some
>Also, down the road, I can see a CS curriculum which is pretty .NET centric,
To me, the spirit of Python and .Net are quite unaligned.
It seems that many of us who feel aligned with Python
feel aligned with it in spirit, more than in anything in
particular in its syntax and semantics.
If we in
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Dan Crosta
> Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 12:46 PM
> To: edu-sig@python.org
> Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] Python for CS101
> In fact, the only areas I think Python is *not* s
Of course, I believe that Python is the ideal language for CS101.
Otherwise, I would probably not be so interested in this list ;-)
Here are some arguments that I have not seen (except for the first one)
in the current thread.
1. Python is often described as "executable pseudocode".
2. Python
Dan Crosta wrote:
> the current language (at Swat, currently C, but transitioning to Java)
> is used in the intro course? Certainly C at least is a language worth
> knowing as a computer scientist, but need it be introduced to students
> who've never used anything other than Windows or Mac OS? Pr
As a follow up note to my earlier comments, it might be worth
considering why the current language (at Swat, currently C, but
transitioning to Java) is used in the intro course? Certainly C at least
is a language worth knowing as a computer scientist, but need it be
introduced to students who've ne
[ "Douglas S. Blank" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ]
---
| I am proposing that we move our intro courses at Bryn Mawr College to
| Python. Although I have been using Python for a few years, and have
| used it in the upper-level courses for teaching robotics,
First of all, I'm glad to see that some places are beginning to pick up
Python as an introductory language, Doug. Here at Swarthmore, as you may
know, the department just revamped the intro course layout to teach Java
from the get-go, which I tried as much as an undergrad could, to prevent
for
The faq says:
8. What impact will this have on the following courses?
In upper-level courses, we wouldn't be able to assume that the
students know Java, C++, or C. We are planning on teaching memory
management and compiling issues in our Programming Paradigms course.
9. What about the AP exams?
Edu-sig members,
I am proposing that we move our intro courses at Bryn Mawr College to
Python. Although I have been using Python for a few years, and have
used it in the upper-level courses for teaching robotics, I haven't
taught an intro course with it.
I am now responding to my colleagues' ques
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