Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 12:05 PM Maxim Nikulin wrote: > There is might be some uncertainty concerning handling of prefixes and > suffixes. However my impression is that even e.g. \cite[p.~7]{key} is > quite rare. For completeness, keys without prefixes, suffixes could be > combined into single

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On 06/05/2021 18:53, Bruce D'Arcus wrote: Your example should just use the default org-cite citation, without any style or sub-style. The rest would be handled by latex/bibtex. Right? Yes, simple \cite{k1,k2} is mostly enough for numeric citations. E.g cases like separated list of

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 7:37 AM Maxim Nikulin wrote: > > For example, do you get that with the default \cite command in latex, > > assuming the right bst file? > > Do you think something is wrong with such citations? No. I asked those questions because the focus now is on org-cite styles, and

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

,ml_cite_org3}. \begin{thebibliography}{9} \bibitem{ml_cite_org3} Nicolas Goaziou. Notes about citations in Org (part 3). \bibitem{ml_cite_status} Bruce D'Arcus. wip-cite status question and feedback. \bibitem{ml_natbib} Nicolas Goaziou. [wip-cite-new] New natbib processor. \end{thebibliography}

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On Wednesday, 5 May 2021 at 13:16, Bruce D'Arcus wrote: > On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 12:59 PM Maxim Nikulin wrote: >> In some fields simple "[3,7]" citations are traditional. > > How do you achieve such output, with which formats, packages, commands? > > For example, do you get that with the default

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 12:59 PM Maxim Nikulin wrote: > > On 04/05/2021 23:59, Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > > > > Is the default \cite{key} command (without any other package) used? I'm > > not sure we should provide it since we are working towards more complete > > solutions. > > In some fields

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On 04/05/2021 23:59, Nicolas Goaziou wrote: Is the default \cite{key} command (without any other package) used? I'm not sure we should provide it since we are working towards more complete solutions. In some fields simple "[3,7]" citations are traditional. A couple of randomly picked

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

Hello, András Simonyi writes: > this is just to indicate that I've started to look into the > wip-cite-new branch with an eye on updating citeproc-org to use the > new API -- everything seems to be working perfectly, thanks again for > this, Nicholas! One issue I also noticed is the separation

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

Hello, "Bruce D'Arcus" writes: > On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 12:59 PM Nicolas Goaziou > wrote: > >> AFAIU, the idea is to use styles from you wiki. However, sub-styles are >> not mentioned. They could be "full" for the starred variants, "caps" for >> the capitalized ones, and "alt" for those

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On Wednesday, 5 May 2021 at 05:37, Bruce D'Arcus wrote: > Does it have any more commands than \cite and \nocite? Vanilla LaTeX has only \cite and \nocite (page 74ff of the original book by Leslie Lamport). -- : Eric S Fraga via Emacs 28.0.50, Org release_9.4.5-503-g501b2a

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

Am 05.05.2021 um 11:37 schrieb Bruce D'Arcus: On Wed, May 5, 2021, 1:48 AM Eric S Fraga > wrote: On Tuesday,  4 May 2021 at 18:59, Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > Is the default \cite{key} command (without any other package) used? Yes, it is.  But I wouldn't

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On Wed, May 5, 2021, 1:48 AM Eric S Fraga wrote: > On Tuesday, 4 May 2021 at 18:59, Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > > Is the default \cite{key} command (without any other package) used? > > Yes, it is. But I wouldn't be able to tell you anything about relative > frequency etc. > Does it have any

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On Tuesday, 4 May 2021 at 21:04, András Simonyi wrote: > One issue I also noticed is the separation of citation > style and bibliography style, which does not exist in CSL. > Accordingly, it would be nice to have ways of specifying a single > style for both of them (both in the Org syntax and in

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On Tuesday, 4 May 2021 at 22:22, Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > I meant: is it useful to even mention it? Is it used at all when other > more complete solutions exist? Actually, to avoid misunderstanding, natbib is not more "complete" than the default LaTeX support. It simply supports a particular

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On Tuesday, 4 May 2021 at 18:59, Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > Is the default \cite{key} command (without any other package) used? Yes, it is. But I wouldn't be able to tell you anything about relative frequency etc. -- : Eric S Fraga via Emacs 28.0.50, Org release_9.4.5-395-g82fbdd

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

"Bruce D'Arcus" writes: > On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 12:59 PM Nicolas Goaziou > wrote: >> Is the default \cite{key} command (without any other package) used? I'm >> not sure we should provide it since we are working towards more complete >> solutions. > > Not ATM. > > The table only has suggested

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

Dear All, this is just to indicate that I've started to look into the wip-cite-new branch with an eye on updating citeproc-org to use the new API -- everything seems to be working perfectly, thanks again for this, Nicholas! One issue I also noticed is the separation of citation style and

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 12:59 PM Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > AFAIU, the idea is to use styles from you wiki. However, sub-styles are > not mentioned. They could be "full" for the starred variants, "caps" for > the capitalized ones, and "alt" for those without parenthesis, so one > could write:

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 12:59 PM Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > "Bruce D'Arcus" writes: ... > > I guess the question at this stage is how to iterate this. > > > > I already added a change or two based on feedback from Joost, and it > > does make sense to add a new column for latex. > > > > It seems

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

"Bruce D'Arcus" writes: > On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 11:46 AM Eric S Fraga wrote: > >> I wonder whether it might be good to have a default LaTeX column as >> well, i.e. not natbib, a column that represents what LaTeX supports out >> of the box which is only the \cite{key} command. > > Makes sense

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 11:46 AM Eric S Fraga wrote: > I wonder whether it might be good to have a default LaTeX column as > well, i.e. not natbib, a column that represents what LaTeX supports out > of the box which is only the \cite{key} command. Makes sense to me. I guess the question at this

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On Tuesday, 4 May 2021 at 11:20, Bruce D'Arcus wrote: > I'm attaching the tentative style/command and shortcut mapping I came > up with, with help from Eric and Joost. Thank you for this. I wonder whether it might be good to have a default LaTeX column as well, i.e. not natbib, a column that

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

I'm attaching the tentative style/command and shortcut mapping I came up with, with help from Eric and Joost. HTH. I do have \autocite as default for biblatex. Joost can weigh in if he thinks this is a problem. Bruce org-cite-styles.org Description: Binary data

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

Sorry, just to be crytal clear ... On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 9:21 AM Bruce D'Arcus wrote: > > It is possible to include sub-styles, e.g., > > I agree it would be better to allow variants ... I should have written "sub-styles"; as in, I agree with Nicolas. Also agree on shortcuts, which I've

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 9:15 AM Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > Also, what styles (including shortcuts if necessary) names could we > chose? Asterisk is not allowed in the citation style (but that could > change, if necessary). I'll let the bibtex folks speak to that perspective, but ... > E.g., > >

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

Eric S Fraga writes: > On Tuesday, 4 May 2021 at 07:58, Bruce D'Arcus wrote: >> Perhaps the bibtex/biblatex folks can help with those details? > > For natbib, there is a good summary at > > http://merkel.texture.rocks/Latex/natbib.php Thanks. Naive question: it doesn't say how to print the

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On Tuesday, 4 May 2021 at 07:58, Bruce D'Arcus wrote: > Perhaps the bibtex/biblatex folks can help with those details? For natbib, there is a good summary at http://merkel.texture.rocks/Latex/natbib.php I only ever typically use "Author (year)" (\citet{key}) and "(Author, year)" (\citep{key})

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On Tuesday, 4 May 2021 at 06:11, Bruce D'Arcus wrote: > It should be trivial to map this to latex; cite/text -> \citet and such. Indeed. -- : Eric S Fraga via Emacs 28.0.50, Org release_9.4.5-395-g82fbdd

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On Tuesday, 4 May 2021 at 12:10, Joost Kremers wrote: > Pedantic nit-pick: they *should* be expecting and using biblatex. (But > perhaps that is what you meant already. :-) ) Well, luckily, in my field most of the journals allow submissions in LaTeX and provide style files. The bibliography is

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 6:48 AM Bruce D'Arcus wrote: > It seems like those interested in this could collaborate on a table of > style/command mappings for the above export processors. > > Anyone interested in working on this? > > If yes, how/where? I added a wiki page on the bibtex-actions site

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 2:47 AM Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > "Bruce D'Arcus" writes: > > And if the processor is citeproc-org, where does one put the "foo.csl" > > style? > > That may be orthogonal. If you use a given "foo.csl", does it still make > sense to provide styles to print_bibliography

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 6:29 AM Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > The branch provides an API to develop citation processors. The goal is > not to ultimately use "oc-basic.el", but to activate more specialized > processors, like, for example "oc-citeproc.el", but also > "oc-biblatex.el" or "oc-natbib.el",

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

Am 04.05.2021 um 12:10 schrieb Joost Kremers: On Tue, May 04 2021, Eric S Fraga wrote: Question for the longer term: for LaTeX export, I will be wanting to have the [cite:] constructs export to BiBTeX code. Will this be possible in due course? For other targets (ODT, HTML), what has been

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

Hello, Eric S Fraga writes: > Question for the longer term: for LaTeX export, I will be wanting to > have the [cite:] constructs export to BiBTeX code. Will this be > possible in due course? For other targets (ODT, HTML), what has been > done in this branch is fantastic but, for LaTeX,

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On Tue, May 4, 2021, 5:51 AM Eric S Fraga wrote: > On Tuesday, 4 May 2021 at 11:33, Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > > Done. > > Thank you. Seems to work just fine. > > Question for the longer term: for LaTeX export, I will be wanting to > have the [cite:] constructs export to BiBTeX code. Will this

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On Tue, May 04 2021, Eric S Fraga wrote: > Question for the longer term: for LaTeX export, I will be wanting to > have the [cite:] constructs export to BiBTeX code. Will this be > possible in due course? For other targets (ODT, HTML), what has been > done in this branch is fantastic but, for

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On Tuesday, 4 May 2021 at 11:33, Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > Done. Thank you. Seems to work just fine. Question for the longer term: for LaTeX export, I will be wanting to have the [cite:] constructs export to BiBTeX code. Will this be possible in due course? For other targets (ODT, HTML), what

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

Nicolas Goaziou writes: > Oops. I'll fix it in a few hours. I need to treat LaTeX-derived > back-ends specially in the context of BibTeX files. > > I'll let you know when it's done. Done.

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On Monday, 3 May 2021 at 09:58, Bruce D'Arcus wrote: >> 2. the suppressed author case does not seem to work. > > He removed the suppress author variant on the individual cited items, > so I think the same effect he means to achieve with the "year" style. Makes sense. Thank you. -- : Eric S

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On Monday, 3 May 2021 at 18:48, Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > I don't know how to do that cleanly. However, I think this is already > too smart a feature for "basic" back-end. So, I'd like to punt on this > one. Point taken. Reasonable approach. Thank you. -- : Eric S Fraga via Emacs 28.0.50, Org

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

Hi, Am 04.05.2021 um 08:47 schrieb Nicolas Goaziou: Hello, "Bruce D'Arcus" writes: On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 12:42 PM Nicolas Goaziou wrote: Anyway, I suggest to let it nil, and select it at the document level instead, with #+cite_export: basic bibstyle citestyle What is the

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

Hello, "Bruce D'Arcus" writes: > On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 12:42 PM Nicolas Goaziou > wrote: > >> Anyway, I suggest to let it nil, and select it at the document level >> instead, with >> >> #+cite_export: basic bibstyle citestyle > > What is the significance of the last two items? These are

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 12:42 PM Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > Anyway, I suggest to let it nil, and select it at the document level > instead, with > > #+cite_export: basic bibstyle citestyle What is the significance of the last two items? In a CSL implementation like citeproc-el, both are defined

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

FYI, I implemented support for the org-cite syntax and the core styles that I think will likely end up in citeproc-org, on the `org-cite` branch, represented by this PR. https://github.com/bdarcus/bibtex-actions/pull/113 So if you run the 'bibtex-actions-insert-citations' command and select one

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

Hello, Eric S Fraga writes: > I've had a short play with this. Looks nice! Thank you! > A few points: > > 1. if the BiBTeX entry has, for instance, \& to escape the & for use >with LaTeX, org translates the \ to $\backslash$ and then the & >causes a problem compiling the resulting

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

Hello, "Bruce D'Arcus" writes: > So if I want to add to that mini-init file the config so that the > basic processor is correctly setup, what am I doing wrong here? > > (setq org-cite-activate-processor 'basic > org-cite-follow-processor 'basic > org-cite-export-processor 'basic)

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

Hi Eric, On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 9:47 AM Eric S Fraga wrote: > 2. the suppressed author case does not seem to work. He removed the suppress author variant on the individual cited items, so I think the same effect he means to achieve with the "year" style. Bruce

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

Hello all, I've had a short play with this. Looks nice! A few points: 1. if the BiBTeX entry has, for instance, \& to escape the & for use with LaTeX, org translates the \ to $\backslash$ and then the & causes a problem compiling the resulting LaTeX. 2. the suppressed author case does

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On Sun, May 2, 2021 at 3:32 PM Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > Make sure to checkout "wip-cite-new". Once there, you run "make". > > Then, the following mini-init.el file should be enough. Perfect; thank you! So if I want to add to that mini-init file the config so that the basic processor is

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

Hello, "Bruce D'Arcus" writes: > I was thinking maybe it would complete the key. That can be for other > developers to add. You missed the "basic" part in "oc-basic.el". ;) You can write a function for creating citations with completion outside of the oc API. > Would it be possible for you,

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On Sun, May 2, 2021 at 10:51 AM Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > `org-open-at-point' will try to find key "a" in the current > bibliography. Got it. I was thinking maybe it would complete the key. That can be for other developers to add. Would it be possible for you, or someone else on the list, to

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

Hello, "Bruce D'Arcus" writes: > Nicolas - just a little question on one detail: > > On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 10:06 AM Nicolas Goaziou > wrote: > >> On a citation key, "follow" capability moves point to the >> corresponding entry in the current bibliography. Elsewhere on the >> citation, it

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

Nicolas - just a little question on one detail: On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 10:06 AM Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > On a citation key, "follow" capability moves point to the > corresponding entry in the current bibliography. Elsewhere on the > citation, it asks the user to follow any of the keys cited

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

Hi Nicolas, Nicolas Goaziou writes: > This post is an update about "wip-cite-new" branch, which I rebased > a few minutes ago. I'm attaching a call for help to this thread so that more people can test this before we merge it into master. Thanks again for this important work! -- Bastien

Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 10:06 AM Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > ... at this point, I would suggest to spend energy porting "citeproc-org" or > "org-ref" to > this API instead. +1 Thanks for the update, and the work, Nicolas! I agree any remaining details are best worked out in the process of

Notes about citations in Org (part 3)

Hello, This post is an update about "wip-cite-new" branch, which I rebased a few minutes ago. It introduces changes that make previous reports obsolete. In particular, the "demo" I wrote in the previous thread is no longer applicable directly, even though the ideas developed there still hold.