Re: [Emu] [saag] Feedback on Salted EAP draft

2015-07-14 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Christian" == Christian Huitema writes: Christian> On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 9:01 AM, Kathleen Moriarty wrote: >> Is there interest in reviewing this draft?  Sam pointed out the >> importance of moving this work forward, it would be helpful to >> have volunteers to review t

Re: [Emu] [saag] Feedback on Salted EAP draft

2015-03-27 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Kathleen" == Kathleen Moriarty writes: Kathleen>I meant to send the link to Dan's draft: Kathleen> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-harkins-salted-eap-pwd-01 Kathleen> Long week... I have briefly reviewed the goals behind this proposal and a sketch of the details but have

Re: [Emu] [abfab] [radext] New Version Notification for draft-winter-radext-populating-eapidentity-00.txt

2014-02-18 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Alan" == Alan DeKok writes: Alan> The idea was to allow *provisioning* of the Alan> Response/Identity. Automatically deriving it from the Alan> method-specific "user identity" is just as bad as Alan> automatically using a 3GPP identity. Unfortunately in contexts like A

Re: [Emu] [radext] New Version Notification for draft-winter-radext-populating-eapidentity-00.txt

2014-02-18 Thread Sam Hartman
Hi. My life has been hectic, and I completely dropped the ball on this! Thanks for doing this. ___ Emu mailing list Emu@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emu

[Emu] Right place for ABFAB ephemeral keying

2013-11-15 Thread Sam Hartman
Hi. At the most recent ABFAB meeting I brought up the idea of adding ephemeral keying to ABFAB. This would provide the following: * Protect the EAP conversation between the peer and NAS (initiator and acceptor in GSS terms) * Provide a key to protect ABFAB negotiations * Prevent the EAP serv

Re: [Emu] RFC 6677: empty attribute lists in Channel Binding responses

2013-09-26 Thread Sam Hartman
>>>>> "Sam" == Sam Hartman writes: Sam> We noticed a situation where our AAA server was generating a Sam> channel binding response that was rejected by our supplicant Sam> code. Sam> We looked into things and determined that the server w

[Emu] RFC 6677: empty attribute lists in Channel Binding responses

2013-09-23 Thread Sam Hartman
We noticed a situation where our AAA server was generating a channel binding response that was rejected by our supplicant code. We looked into things and determined that the server was generating a single octet failure response (code 3) and was including no attributes. After re-reading section 5

Re: [Emu] Martin Stiemerling's Discuss on draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method-07: (with DISCUSS)

2013-09-12 Thread Sam Hartman
>>>>> "Martin" == Martin Stiemerling writes: Martin> Sam, Martin> On 08/24/2013 03:41 PM, Sam Hartman wrote: >>>>>>> "Martin" == Martin Stiemerling >>>>>>> writes: >> Mart

Re: [Emu] Martin Stiemerling's Discuss on draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method-07: (with DISCUSS)

2013-08-24 Thread Sam Hartman
>>>>> "Martin" == Martin Stiemerling writes: Martin> Hi Sam, Martin> On 08/14/2013 10:16 PM, Sam Hartman wrote: >>>>>>> "Joseph" == Joseph Salowey (jsalowey) >>>>>>> writes: >> Jose

Re: [Emu] Some proposed error conditions for draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method

2013-08-24 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Stefan" == Stefan Winter writes: I think this is too detailed. The error codes MAY be used. Full stop. Whether you can is a complex policy and implementation discussion best hidden behind a MAY. ___ Emu mailing list Emu@ietf.org https://www.ietf

[Emu] last call for draft-ietf-abfab-eapapplicability-03

2013-06-03 Thread Sam Hartman
I wanted to make sure that people in emu are aware that the EAP applicability statement update for application authentication is in IETF last call. --Sam --- Begin Message --- The IESG has received a request from the Application Bridging for Federated Access Beyond web WG (abfab) to consider

Re: [Emu] Comments on draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method

2013-03-05 Thread Sam Hartman
OK. Based on your description of how peer and server ID are used, I have no concerns about 3.4. ___ Emu mailing list Emu@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emu

Re: [Emu] Comments on draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method

2013-03-04 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Joseph" == Joseph Salowey (jsalowey) writes: [Joe] THis is a reasonable request. We'll need to make sure there is no ambiguity in the use of the empty message. Should this be covered in RFC 6677? RFC 6677 doesn't talk about how you decide you're going to do channel binding. I had m

Re: [Emu] Last call on draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method

2013-03-01 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Alan" == Alan DeKok writes: Alan> Alan DeKok wrote: >> This is a WG last call on the draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method >> document. Please post reviews, comments, feedback, etc. to this >> list. >> >> The WG last call will last two weeks, until February 26. >>

Re: [Emu] Comments on draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method

2013-03-01 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Jim" == Jim Schaad writes: >> There doesn't seem to be a way for a server to request channel >> binding. If that's true we should probably add the following: >> Since a server cannot indicate a desire for channel binding, >> clients that Jim> have >> channel binding

[Emu] I think draft-ietf-emu-crypto-bind is ready for last call

2013-02-25 Thread Sam Hartman
There's an outstanding comment asking for a change to the ascii art. Besides that I believe we've addressed the comments and generally improved the draft. I think it's ready for last call. I do suspect we'll collect some more comments and have some clarifications after last call, but I suspect la

Re: [Emu] crypto binding: why did I want a survey of methods

2013-02-24 Thread Sam Hartman
Hi. I've included a survey of tunnel methods that have made it to RFC and TEAP. It's quite possible that people want to cover more tunnel methods in the summary (LEAP, PEAP, EAP-TTLS v1). People who want to supply text are welcome to do so. After looking at it, I don't feel comfortable volunteer

[Emu] Comments on draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method

2013-02-23 Thread Sam Hartman
First, the document has been improved a lot in its clarity since the last time I read it. I'd really like to thank the editors, Jim and everyone else who gave comments for some excellent work. TEAP is by far the best EAP method I've ever reviewed, and I think security of EAP conversations would

[Emu] crypto binding: why did I want a survey of methods

2013-02-22 Thread Sam Hartman
So, the current crypto binding draft has empty sections for a survey of tunnel methods and a survey of inner methods. Does anyone have an idea what was going to go in those sections? I'm guessing I put those section headers there, but I cannot remember what I was going to survey for. If there's

Re: [Emu] Review - draft-ietf-emu-crypto-bind-00.txt

2013-02-22 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Jim" == Jim Schaad writes: Jim> As was pointed out to me, the subject message on the message Jim> had the wrong draft name (even if the version number was Jim> right). Thanks for the review. I've addressed all the comments except: 1) I'm asking a co-author to help with your r

Re: [Emu] Tweaking EAP (RFC 3748)

2012-10-25 Thread Sam Hartman
>>>>> "Alper" == Alper Yegin writes: Alper> On Oct 19, 2012, at 5:08 PM, Sam Hartman wrote: >>>>>> "Alper" == Alper Yegin writes: >> Alper> Hi Sam, Please also share this discussion with EAP WG and EMU Al

[Emu] Help reviewing auth48 channel bindings diagrams

2012-07-16 Thread Sam Hartman
I'd appreciate it if someone could review the diagrams in section 5.3 of http://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc6677.txt and confirm that those diagrams match the text. Once I get a confirmation there I think we're ready to approve the channel bindings RFC. ___

Re: [Emu] Comments on draft-hartman-emu-mutual-crypto-bind

2012-07-02 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Jim" == Jim Schaad writes: Jim> Sam et al, Jim> 1. In section 1 after the Classic Tunnel Attack figure, I believe there are Jim> three methods listed as possible mitigation strategies, however I don't Jim> understand how the second one - a sufficiently strong inner method

Re: [Emu] on draft-hartman-emu-mutual-crypto-bind-00

2012-06-28 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Jim" == Jim Schaad writes: Before the outer MSK has been computed, yes. Before the inner MSK (the one you need to attack crypto binding) has been computed no. Also, note that the RADIUS server only knows about the inner method, so it will transport the inner MSK as soon as it believes the

Re: [Emu] New draft on mutual crypto binding problem

2012-06-28 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Hao" == Hao Zhou writes: Hao> Sam: Hao> This is a well thought and well written draft, it covers a lot of background Hao> and aspect of the attacks and mitigations. However, I have few comments: Thanks! You listed a set of drawbacks to EMSK-based crypto binding. Hao> A.

Re: [Emu] on draft-hartman-emu-mutual-crypto-bind-00

2012-06-28 Thread Sam Hartman
> "zhou" == zhou sujing writes: zhou> To my understanding, right prior to finishing tunnel establishement, EAP peer zhou> and EAP Server(print server in the server insertion attack case) should have zhou> exchanged channel binding with integrity protection by key only known to

Re: [Emu] A review Re: [Nea] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nea-pt-eap-02.txt

2012-06-07 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Joe" == Joe Salowey writes: Joe> So, is your concern with using only MSK crypto binding with an inner EAP authentication method used to authenticate an unauthenticated/poorly authenticated tunnel or is it more specific to the nea-pt-eap method? Joe> For the first concern it may

Re: [Emu] A review Re: [Nea] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nea-pt-eap-02.txt

2012-06-06 Thread Sam Hartman
I don't believe that existing crypto binding is adequate for NEA's needs as discussed in draft-hartman-emu-mutual-crypto-binding. Unfortunately, though, I'm not sure that tls-unique helps enough here. If the outer method actually does provide server authentication as deployed, then tls-unique is

Re: [Emu] reference Information about channel binding and crypto binding

2012-06-01 Thread Sam Hartman
> "zhou" == zhou sujing writes: zhou> 3. also in rfc 5247 zhou>TEKs are output from EAP methods and were designed to zhou> secure the channel, couldn't they be used in channel binding zhou> or crypto binding? TEKs can and typically will be used for channel binding. C

Re: [Emu] Updated secdir review of draft-ietf-emu-chbind-15.txt

2012-05-21 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Stephen" == Stephen Hanna writes: Stephen> The changes in draft-ietf-emu-chbind-15.txt satisfactorily Stephen> address almost all of the comments in my April 13, 2012 Stephen> secdir review. I do have one remaining substantive comment Stephen> on this latest draft and two n

Re: [Emu] ð´: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-emu-chbind-15.txt

2012-05-18 Thread Sam Hartman
> "zhou" == zhou sujing writes: I don't really understand how that would be possible. If a fresh MSK and EMSK are generated per session, which we'd expect in a good EAP method, they need to be generated from something. So, I'd need to better understand what was happening if we had an EAP

Re: [Emu] I-D Action: draft-ietf-emu-chbind-15.txt

2012-05-17 Thread Sam Hartman
> "zhou" == zhou sujing writes: zhou> If there is another key available, it will be great, EMSK? It zhou> has been suggested for cryptographic binding. I'm expecting that most EAP methods will use a key internal to their heirarchy above both the MSK and EMSK. For example I'd expect

Re: [Emu] I-D Action: draft-ietf-emu-chbind-15.txt

2012-05-16 Thread Sam Hartman
> "zhou" == zhou sujing writes: zhou> Hi all zhou> In section 9.1 One attractive implementation strategy for zhou> channel binding is to add channel binding support to a tunnel zhou> method which can tunnel an inner EAP authentication. was zhou> expected to introducing

Re: [Emu] I-D Action: draft-ietf-emu-chbind-15.txt

2012-05-14 Thread Sam Hartman
This version includes a large number of changes mostly to respond to the secdir review. I'm not entirely sure that Stephen Hanna will be happy with the changes in section 9, but I'd like to start there and see where we are. I think it's a good idea for WG members to review these changes. __

Re: [Emu] draft-ietf-emu-chbind and username

2012-05-01 Thread Sam Hartman
I have no problemdocumenting why we do not do so as an example of privacy in sec cons -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. Alan DeKok wrote: Sam Hartman wrote: > I'd like to take a step back and ask why you'd ever want to channel-bind > user-n

[Emu] draft-ietf-emu-chbind and username

2012-04-30 Thread Sam Hartman
Steve Hanna did a secdir review of draft-ietf-emu-chbind. One of the issues he raised is a privacy concern with section 8. He points out that we recommend using the user-name attribute in channel binding. The concern is that if a server checks user-name in i2 against user-name in i1, then a NA

Re: [Emu] Comments on draft-hartman-emu-mutual-crypto-bind

2012-03-25 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Jim" == Jim Schaad writes: Jim> 3. 3.2.3 or 3.2.2 - If you had a non EAP method, and it Jim> derived a key (just like a good EAP method). Is there any Jim> reason why you could not do the cryptographic binding? Other Jim> than it is not currently defined in one of the c

[Emu] Review of draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method

2012-03-25 Thread Sam Hartman
1) TEAP extends TLS RFC 5077 In section 2, TEAP discusses using phase 2 TLVs to include a TLS session ticket and an associated secret key. RFc 5077 only permits session tickets to be sent using the session ticket message. I believe that this is an extension to TLS that would need to go through

Re: [Emu] New draft on mutual crypto binding problem

2012-03-20 Thread Sam Hartman
Let's meet Monday at lunch. We should try and get a count of interested people. ___ Emu mailing list Emu@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emu

Re: [Emu] New draft on mutual crypto binding problem

2012-03-19 Thread Sam Hartman
Dear Hao: I was pleased to hear your analysis of areas where mutual crypto binding may be tricky to deploy because I would like to accurately describe this problem space. I believe the draft covers most of the points you raise but I will definitely incorporate your feedback. I was a bit frustrate

Re: [Emu] Call for Agenda items

2012-03-14 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Pascal" == Pascal Urien writes: Pascal> Hi Sam EMU meansEAP Method Update. Hi. Thanks for the clarification. It turns out I'm reasonably familiar with the history of the EMU and EAP working groups. I remain confused. If you are ready to publish your draft, why do you need to present

Re: [Emu] Call for Agenda items

2012-03-14 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Pascal" == Pascal Urien writes: Pascal> The goal of the presentation at the IETF 83 in Paris is to Pascal> push this draft as an Informational RFC. Hi. I'm glad you want to publish this work as an RFC because I believe it's valuable and I'd like to see it an archival form. I'm su

Re: [Emu] Call for Agenda items

2012-03-13 Thread Sam Hartman
Hi. I'm confused. I'd like to understand why you'd like to present this draft? What response are you hoping for from the EMU working group? ___ Emu mailing list Emu@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emu

[Emu] Security considerations text for draft-ietf-emu-chbind

2012-03-12 Thread Sam Hartman
Hi. I'm posting a new version of the channel bindings draft in response to AD review comments. I've been requested to develop security considerations text in response to attacks I wrote about on the list. Here's the text I'm including in the new draft. Comments are welcome. I don't know if Sean w

[Emu] New draft on mutual crypto binding problem

2012-03-05 Thread Sam Hartman
Folks, I'd like to draw your attention to a draft we've put together describing the crypto binding interaction with channel binding and other peer-focused EAP services that I posted back in January. Please see draft-hartman-emu-mutual-crypto-bind-00.txt. there are a few rough edges. A couple of

Re: [Emu] draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method 7.6: inadequate for interoperable implementation

2012-02-18 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Jim" == Jim Schaad writes: Jim> There is one other item that is also worrying me about this. Jim> In doing the check of certificates, one should be doing Jim> revocation checking. However if one is trying to get network Jim> access, one cannot independently download the re

[Emu] draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method 7.6: inadequate for interoperable implementation

2012-02-17 Thread Sam Hartman
Hi. I'm writing up a draft on mutual crypto binding. As such, I happened to glance at section 7.6 on server certificate validation. The advice there is entirely inadequate for interoperable implementation and violates the tunnel method requirements: 1) . There's a SHOULD check the server name,

[Emu] IETF 83 agenda request: channel binding implementation

2012-02-06 Thread Sam Hartman
I think that a number of participants will be familiar with some channel binding implementation work by IETF 83 and I think it would be valuable to brienf the WG on lessons learned. At one level, we perhaps don't care about implementation-specific problems or issues that pop up when adding channe

Re: [Emu] Channel Binding: EAP Success handling

2012-02-06 Thread Sam Hartman
>>>>> "Sam" == Sam Hartman writes: Sam> Hi. Sam> EAP has a complex history of success indications over the Sam> years. Some methods have protected success indications; some Sam> don't. Sam> Especially as channel bindings are be

[Emu] Channel Binding: EAP Success handling

2012-02-02 Thread Sam Hartman
Hi. EAP has a complex history of success indications over the years. Some methods have protected success indications; some don't. Especially as channel bindings are being initially deployed it's going to be common to want to send channel bindings and possibly fail if they do not match but not

Re: [Emu] Crypto Binding: MITM and draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method

2012-01-13 Thread Sam Hartman
>>>>> "Alan" == Alan DeKok writes: Alan> Sam Hartman wrote: >> RFc 5281 does not provide cryptographic binding. Alan> Well, then I either misunderstand 5281, or I misunderstand Alan> what crypto binding is. I thought that crypto bindin

Re: [Emu] Crypto Binding: MITM and draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method

2012-01-12 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Joe" == Joe Salowey writes: Joe> Back when we were looking at the crypto binding problem, a MITM Joe> in the infrastructure was not part of the threat model. We had Joe> some discussion of this, but we decided were able to get away Joe> with just using the MSK and that thi

Re: [Emu] Crypto Binding: MITM and draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method

2012-01-12 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Hannes" == Hannes Tschofenig writes: Hannes> Hi Sam, let us start with the problem description: You claim Hannes> that EAP peer implementations use PK-based authentication Hannes> but do not do certificate validation. This obviously Hannes> introduces attacks (regardless of

Re: [Emu] Crypto Binding: MITM and draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method

2012-01-12 Thread Sam Hartman
>>>>> "Alan" == Alan DeKok writes: Alan> Sam Hartman wrote: >> Then, assuming we're using TTLSv1, the client will do crypto >> binding. Intuitively you'd kind of think that crypto binding >> would help here; I'll discu

[Emu] Crypto Binding: MITM and draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method

2012-01-11 Thread Sam Hartman
I'd like to thank Margaret Wasserman for coming up with a series of proposed attacks that lead to the following comments. In the context of implementing channel binding and a system that takes advantage of it, I've been focusing on MITM attacks. I'd like to give a example of the sorts of attacks

Re: [Emu] I-D Action: draft-ietf-emu-chbind-13.txt

2012-01-10 Thread Sam Hartman
Hi, folks, at the chairs request I made a couple of changes 1) Replaced MUST not with MUST NOT in one instance 2) Added a reference to Bernard's radext-wlan draft. There was already textual reference, but not an xref tag. While doing that I noticed that there was a missing against in the sesente

Re: [Emu] I-D Action: draft-ietf-emu-chbind-12.txt

2012-01-03 Thread Sam Hartman
The chairs asked me to prepare a new version with the following changes: 1) collapse the registrations in the lower layer type registry as requested by Sean. 2) Add a paragraph to the beginning of Appendix A. I believe I've made these changes. If folks are happy with these two minor changes I

Re: [Emu] Appendices in draft-ietf-emu-chbind-11

2011-12-14 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Joe" == Joe Salowey writes: Joe> I think the following appendices of the channel binding Joe> document are no longer supported by the rest of the text and Joe> defined attributes. I think they are out of date and should be Joe> removed: A.3. Downgrading attacks A.4. Bogu

Re: [Emu] Numbering of EAP Lower Layers Registry

2011-11-14 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Sean" == Sean Turner writes: Sean> Sam, Is there a reason that the registry values aren't 1-9? I Sean> know there were other values there originally and they were Sean> dropped, just curious why they weren't renumbered. First, sorry for coming so late to the meeting. That was

Re: [Emu] REMINDER: WGLC for draft-ietf-emu-chbind-09

2011-10-25 Thread Sam Hartman
So, chairs, can I go forward with Joe's suggestions, include the ERP text and attempt to resolve Jim's comments if I can manage to find time before the cutoff? ___ Emu mailing list Emu@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emu

Re: [Emu] REMINDER: WGLC for draft-ietf-emu-chbind-09

2011-10-23 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Jim" == Jim Schaad writes: Responding only to things I can respond to without reading the document. I''m in the middle of another document. I'll get to the rest sometime next week. Jim> * In section 5.1 (para 3) - The following sentence does not Jim> make sense to me. Message i2 i

[Emu] Where I think we are after the channel binding last call

2011-10-23 Thread Sam Hartman
Hi. Here are my notes as editor on where I think things stand: 1) waiting for chairs to confirm that we have WG consensus to address Alan's comments in the way we did 2) Waiting for the chairs to judge consensus or lead a discussion on the contents of the EAP lower layers table. We should speci

Re: [Emu] Submitted 10

2011-10-21 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Jim" == Jim Schaad writes: Jim> I want to make sure that we have distinguished between the two Jim> statements 1. The server says that I don't support these Jim> specific attributes Jim> and 2. The server does not tell me that it Jim> did or did not do matching of s

Re: [Emu] REMINDER: WGLC for draft-ietf-emu-chbind-09

2011-10-21 Thread Sam Hartman
>>>>> "Dan" == Dan Harkins writes: Dan> On Thu, October 20, 2011 5:48 am, Sam Hartman wrote: >> Ultimately the chairs are going to have to decide what the table >> entries are; I think that's beyond what I can do as an editor. Dan&g

Re: [Emu] Submitted 10

2011-10-21 Thread Sam Hartman
I'll respond to the question of channel binding support now. I think the current text permits an EAP method to not send channel binding if it knows the server fails to support it. If your method can discover that and optimistically avoid sending channel binding that's fine. I think we discussed

Re: [Emu] REMINDER: WGLC for draft-ietf-emu-chbind-09

2011-10-20 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Yoshihiro" == Yoshihiro Ohba writes: Yoshihiro> Hi Sam, Please see my comments below. Yoshihiro> sense. Sending channel bindings in the secure Yoshihiro> association protocol can work even with ERP [RFC5296] in Yoshihiro> which previously established EAP key material is us

Re: [Emu] Submitted 10

2011-10-20 Thread Sam Hartman
>>>>> "Glen" == Glen Zorn writes: Glen> On 10/20/2011 3:09 AM, Sam Hartman wrote: >> > > I believe I've addressed all of Alan's comments with the exception of >> removing the RADIUS diagram from 5.3. Glen> Great, so w

Re: [Emu] REMINDER: WGLC for draft-ietf-emu-chbind-09

2011-10-20 Thread Sam Hartman
>>>>> "Yoshihiro" == Yoshihiro Ohba writes: Yoshihiro> Hi Sam, Yoshihiro> (2011/10/20 21:48), Sam Hartman wrote: >>>>>>> "Yoshihiro" == Yoshihiro Ohba >>>>>>> writes: >> Yos

Re: [Emu] Comments on the eap-tunnel-method-00 draft

2011-10-20 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Hao" == Hao Zhou writes: Hao> Rereading the updated chbind draft, it has already defined the Hao> mechanism for two way communication and tunnel EAP draft just Hao> defined a TLV container to carry the Channel binding data Hao> defined in Section 5.3, so we should be ok. N

Re: [Emu] REMINDER: WGLC for draft-ietf-emu-chbind-09

2011-10-20 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Yoshihiro" == Yoshihiro Ohba writes: Yoshihiro> Hi Sam, Since authorization and accounting with the use Yoshihiro> of the pre-authentication may be different from those Yoshihiro> with the use of normal authentication, it would be good Yoshihiro> to differentiate pre-auth a

Re: [Emu] Comments on the eap-tunnel-method-00 draft

2011-10-19 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Jim" == Jim Schaad writes: >> > Section 4.2.10 - How can I know if the server does or does not >> process > the channel binding TLV? This may be part of my policy >> as a peer > depending on circumstances. >> > >> [HZ] Currently, the Channel-binding TLV is an optional TL

[Emu] Submitted 10

2011-10-19 Thread Sam Hartman
I believe I've addressed all of Alan's comments with the exception of removing the RADIUS diagram from 5.3. Thanks Alan for the comments! --Sam ___ Emu mailing list Emu@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emu

Re: [Emu] REMINDER: WGLC for draft-ietf-emu-chbind-09

2011-10-19 Thread Sam Hartman
Hi. I've added PANA (pre-authentication). I wonder about the whole lower layer table. Why is it important to distinguish PANA with pre-auth from pana without pre-auth? Why is it important to distinguish 802.11 wpa, wpa2 and wpa2 with pre-auth? I'd appreciate it if someone who cared about network

Re: [Emu] [abfab] GSS-EAP: do we ned an identity request

2011-10-19 Thread Sam Hartman
>>>>> "Rafa" == Rafa Marin Lopez writes: Rafa> Hi Sam: El 18/10/2011, a las 18:55, Sam Hartman escribió: >>>>>>> "Rafa" == Rafa Marin Lopez writes: >> Rafa> Hi Sam: El 18/10/2011, a las 17:35, Sam Hartman escr

Re: [Emu] [abfab] GSS-EAP: do we ned an identity request

2011-10-18 Thread Sam Hartman
>>>>> "Rafa" == Rafa Marin Lopez writes: Rafa> Hi Sam: El 18/10/2011, a las 17:35, Sam Hartman escribió: >> I think I may have been unclear in what I was proposing. I'm >> proposing that the peer send its identity in the first message

Re: [Emu] [abfab] GSS-EAP: do we ned an identity request

2011-10-18 Thread Sam Hartman
I think I may have been unclear in what I was proposing. I'm proposing that the peer send its identity in the first message (*) and that the server gets to respond with type 4 or greater (a specific EAP method). I'm proposing dropping the identity request, not the identity response. (*) There's

Re: [Emu] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-emu-chbind-09

2011-10-18 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Alan" == Alan DeKok writes: Alan> For me, echoing a copy of an attribute (value and all) means Alan> that the server validated the attribute. Echoing nothing Alan> means that the server doesn't know what to do with the Alan> attribute. Echoing an attribute with an empty

Re: [Emu] REMINDER: WGLC for draft-ietf-emu-chbind-09

2011-10-18 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Yoshihiro" == Yoshihiro Ohba writes: Yoshihiro> [1] As far as I understand, the method-based channel Yoshihiro> binding is not applicable to ERP. For completeness of Yoshihiro> the specification it may be good to add some text to Yoshihiro> clarify this. I'd welcome sugge

[Emu] GSS-EAP: do we ned an identity request

2011-10-18 Thread Sam Hartman
[EMU copied for EAP input] Here in ABFAB, we're designing a new EAP lower layer for applications to use for authentication. We're using the GSS-API (RFC 2743) as our application integration point. Currently, our lower layer is kind of chatty. The peer sends a first message that roughly says "Hi,

Re: [Emu] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-emu-chbind-09

2011-09-28 Thread Sam Hartman
I'm happy to make changes regarding your comments; a couple of them were not directly actionable but I can make best guesses. Most of them were directly actionable and I agree the changes improve the text. I'd appreciate comments from the groups on whether we start codes at 2 or 1. My default wil

[Emu] Channel Bindings: Ready for Last Call?

2011-09-18 Thread Sam Hartman
Hi. I've just submitted a draft that I think is ready for last call. Changes include: * Figures, thanks Katrin ! * Text stolen from Bernard's draft for the eap lower layer attribute * IANA considerations for the eap lower layer attribute * Removal of the 802.11-specific text per WG discussion i

Re: [Emu] server unauthenticated provisioning mode

2011-08-25 Thread Sam Hartman
Dan: 1) My desire to use GPSK with anonymous server authentication is more or less unrelated to any other part of this discussion. I want to be able to do it because I think I might deploy it and I don't want the spec to forbid a deployment I consider reasonable. There is no security justificatio

Re: [Emu] server unauthenticated provisioning mode

2011-08-24 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Dan" == Dan Harkins writes: Dan> In fact, if you have the ability to to provision 128-bit (or Dan> greater) blobs in disparate places then you have the ability to Dan> provision a certificate or something that makes EAP-GPSK Dan> pointless. If, on the other hand, you real

Re: [Emu] server unauthenticated provisioning mode

2011-08-24 Thread Sam Hartman
>>>>> "Dan" == Dan Harkins writes: Dan> On Wed, August 24, 2011 12:15 pm, Sam Hartman wrote: >>>>>>> "Dan" == Dan Harkins writes: >> Dan> and MUST support EAP-pwd [RFC 5931] as a phase 2 method. >>

Re: [Emu] server unauthenticated provisioning mode

2011-08-24 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Dan" == Dan Harkins writes: Dan> and MUST support EAP-pwd [RFC 5931] as a phase 2 method. I support all of dan's changes regarding unauthenticated server mode with the exception of the quoted text above. I do not generally support a down-reference to an informational document in a c

Re: [Emu] Channel Binding attributes

2011-08-10 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Joe" == Joe Salowey writes: Joe> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-aboba-radext-wlan-13) - this Joe> is an draft attribute designed to indicate the EAP lower layer. Joe> It contains several values to cover many of the EAP lower Joe> layers. IT does cover IKEv2 and PANA. I

Re: [Emu] Agenda items IETF Meeting 81

2011-07-07 Thread Sam Hartman
I'm not actually sure channel bindisgs will need time this round. I think I've done exactly what I said I'd do on the list. I think one get the diagrams and a review or lack of review on the 802.11 information, we should be ready for last call. ___ Emu

[Emu] Proposed changes for Channel Binding draft

2011-06-28 Thread Sam Hartman
Over the past couple of days I've been organizing proposed edits for the channel binding document. First, I could really use some help producing some ascii art diagrams. I think I have non-ascii-art diagrams for the packets involved; is anyone willing to step forward and help with this? Secondl

Re: [Emu] Results of consensus call on tunnel method document

2011-05-16 Thread Sam Hartman
Based on the answers to my questions, I strongly support allocation of a new EAP type code . I think using the existing type code will significantly disadvantage implementations that want to implement the IETF spec but not eap-fast v1. I believe that is highly undesirable. ___

[Emu] Some questions about eap type code and the tunnel method

2011-05-16 Thread Sam Hartman
I'd like to confirm my understanding. The current text proposes the use of eap type code 43. I'd like to confirm that code is in use both by implementations of eap-fast v1 and v2. Does the current text mandate support for eap-fast v1 as well as v2? Is it expected that most implementations wil

Re: [Emu] Results of consensus call on tunnel method document

2011-05-14 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Alan" == Alan DeKok writes: Alan> Glen Zorn wrote: >> There seem to be two issues here: renaming the draft & allocating >> a new EAP type. For which one are opinions being solicited? Alan> Allocating a new EAP type. My opinion is that we have two options: 1) Allocate

Re: [Emu] Channel Binding Consensus Call

2011-04-28 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Alan" == Alan DeKok writes: Alan> There is plenty of BSD-licensed code available for packing Alan> and unpacking RADIUS attributes. There should be little cost Alan> to re-using that, and a larger cost in writing a new attribute Alan> packer. Assuming RADIUS is basical

Re: [Emu] Channel Binding Consensus Call

2011-04-28 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Alan" == Alan DeKok writes: Alan> Stefan Winter wrote: >> Attribute parsing should be easier with this option 1 - Length >> can always serve as a pointer to the next attribute, with >> explicit namespace ID. With option 2, attribute delimiters are >> only within NS-Spec

Re: [Emu] Consensus call on EAP Tunneled method

2011-04-18 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Glen" == Glen Zorn writes: Glen> On 4/16/2011 2:21 AM, Stephen Hanna wrote: >> I agree with Katrin's count for the email poll. When combined >> with the count from the meeting in Prague (since Alan asked for >> only folks who didn't attend the EMU WG meeting in Prague),

[Emu] Really no proposals submitted so far?

2011-03-03 Thread Sam Hartman
I just want to confirm I haven't missed mail. It's my understanding that the call for proposals for tunnel methods closes March 7 and that so far we've seen no submissions. Is that correct? ___ Emu mailing list Emu@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/

Re: [Emu] Call for agenda items for IETF

2011-02-28 Thread Sam Hartman
I'd very much like to discuss the changes to the channel binding draft. The highest level item is whether we're going in the right direction. I'd also like to come to closure on Alan's comment about whether we want each AVP split out or whether we want to reuse more of the RADIUS/whatever encoding

Re: [Emu] Channel Bindings: RADIUS or Diameter namespace

2011-02-10 Thread Sam Hartman
I considered retaining namespace-specific packing. my concern is that in the channel binding response you want to remove values. This ends up being a bit namespace specific because of VSAs but seems to argue for the channel binding logic ending up getting stuck with a fair bit of namespace specif

[Emu] draft-ietf-emu-chbind-07 submitted

2011-02-09 Thread Sam Hartman
The major difference in this version is that I've thrown together a candidate protocol based on the discussions of the last few days. I think this should give us something concrete to discuss. While I think the text includes the necessary information, there are three places where packet diagrams

Re: [Emu] Channel Bindings: RADIUS or Diameter namespace

2011-02-08 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Alan" == Alan DeKok writes: >> 2) Have multiple namespaces for attributes we support. This may >> remove a lot of the overhead savings for RADIUS over Diameter; in >> the obvious implementation I'd expect we would waste a byte per >> AVP. Alan> I'm not sure what you

[Emu] Channel Bindings: RADIUS or Diameter namespace

2011-01-10 Thread Sam Hartman
At the last IETF, Glen proposed that rather than using diameter's namespace for channel binding AVPs we use the RADIUS namespace. There were two aspects to this concern. One is that diameter has a larger length value for attributes. If we're routinely exceeding 253-octets for values that are part

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