Re: Primitive Awareness and Symmetry

2012-04-03 Thread 1Z
On Apr 3, 3:20 am, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Apr 2, 8:06 pm, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 6:08 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: From blindsight, synesthesia, and anosognosia we know that particular

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-04-03 Thread 1Z
On Apr 2, 9:39 pm, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Apr 2, 2:12 pm, 1Z peterdjo...@yahoo.com wrote: On Apr 2, 6:02 pm, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Apr 2, 12:03 pm, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 4/2/2012 7:14 AM, Craig Weinberg

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-04-03 Thread 1Z
On Apr 2, 9:41 pm, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Apr 2, 1:33 pm, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 4/2/2012 10:02 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Apr 2, 12:03 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net  wrote: On 4/2/2012 7:14 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: If all

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-04-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Apr 2012, at 18:03, meekerdb wrote: On 4/2/2012 7:14 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: If all movement was involuntary in the first place then there would be no significant difference between passively watching yourself move and passively watching yourself not move If we had no

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-04-03 Thread 1Z
On Apr 3, 3:12 am, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Apr 2, 5:05 pm, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: But the experiment didn't show there was more or less free will.  It didn't even show there was any free will.  It just showed that inducing a belief in free will

Re: Theology or not theology (Re: COMP theology)

2012-04-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Apr 2012, at 18:14, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: you've added tons of bells and whistles but for all the complex convolutions you have not added one single bit of additional information about what is likely to happen. On the

Re: Theology or not theology (Re: COMP theology)

2012-04-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Apr 2012, at 18:40, meekerdb wrote: On 4/2/2012 9:14 AM, John Clark wrote: If Everett is right the probability must be derived from the statistics of measurements *as described by the wave evolution*. If Everett is right then you can use the square of the absolute value of the

Re: Primitive Awareness and Symmetry

2012-04-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 03 Apr 2012, at 02:06, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 6:08 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: From blindsight, synesthesia, and anosognosia we know that particular qualia are not inevitably associated with the conditions they usually represent for us, so

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-04-03 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Apr 2, 11:22 pm, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 4/2/2012 7:12 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Apr 2, 5:05 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net  wrote: But the experiment didn't show there was more or less free will.  It didn't even show there was any free will.  It just

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-04-03 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Apr 3, 5:04 am, 1Z peterdjo...@yahoo.com wrote: On Apr 2, 9:39 pm, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Apr 2, 2:12 pm, 1Z peterdjo...@yahoo.com wrote: On Apr 2, 6:02 pm, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Apr 2, 12:03 pm, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-04-03 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Apr 3, 5:07 am, 1Z peterdjo...@yahoo.com wrote: Why not?  If the brain is deterministic then beliefs are deterministic and changing them by external inputs can change performance. The belief is about the power to self determine though. The performance change is evidence that

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-04-03 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Apr 3, 5:27 am, 1Z peterdjo...@yahoo.com wrote: But the experiment didn't show there was more or less free will. It didn't even show there was any free will. It just showed that inducing a belief in free will changed performance. Performance in what though? Readiness to

Re: Primitive Awareness and Symmetry

2012-04-03 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Apr 2, 11:29 pm, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 4/2/2012 7:28 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: I like Julian Jaynes idea that it is a side-effect of using the same parts of the brain for cogitation as are used for perception.  That would be the kind of thing that evolution would

Re: A question for Bruno about Artificial Brains

2012-04-03 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Apr 2, 11:21 pm, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: Dick could have the same doubts about any medical treatment short of total brain replacement. Perhaps taking perindopril for hypertension turns people into zombies. The same doubts?  Really? If philosophical zombies are

Re: A question for Bruno about Artificial Brains

2012-04-03 Thread meekerdb
On 4/3/2012 11:03 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Apr 2, 11:21 pm, Stathis Papaioannoustath...@gmail.com wrote: Dick could have the same doubts about any medical treatment short of total brain replacement. Perhaps taking perindopril for hypertension turns people into zombies. The same doubts?

Re: Primitive Awareness and Symmetry

2012-04-03 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 03.04.2012 02:06 Stathis Papaioannou said the following: On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 6:08 AM, Craig Weinbergwhatsons...@gmail.com wrote: From blindsight, synesthesia, and anosognosia we know that particular qualia are not inevitably associated with the conditions they usually represent for us,

Re: Primitive Awareness and Symmetry

2012-04-03 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 03.04.2012 05:29 meekerdb said the following: On 4/2/2012 7:28 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Apr 2, 9:02 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net wrote: I like Julian Jaynes idea that it is a side-effect of using the same parts of the brain for cogitation as are used for perception. That would be

Re: Primitive Awareness and Symmetry

2012-04-03 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Apr 3, 3:56 pm, Evgenii Rudnyi use...@rudnyi.ru wrote: On 03.04.2012 02:06 Stathis Papaioannou said the following: On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 6:08 AM, Craig Weinbergwhatsons...@gmail.com   wrote:  From blindsight, synesthesia, and anosognosia we know that particular qualia are

Re: Theology or not theology (Re: COMP theology)

2012-04-03 Thread John Clark
On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 8:06 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: The point is that comp predicts white noise. That something else predicts white noise too is not relevant in the proof. So in the setup the screen changes at RANDOM and comp predicts white noise will be the most likely