Re: free will and mathematics

On Wed, May 30, 2012 Bruno Marchal wrote: > The axiom of choice just asserts that an arbitrary product of a family of > non empty set is non empty. > True, but my dictionary says "arbitrary" means "based on a random choice or personal whim". > There is no clue of direct relationship with physi

Re: free will and mathematics

> > Of course it doesn't, nothing real can have anything to do with "free > will" because "free will" is gibberish. > http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/freewill/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send ema

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On 31 May 2012, at 08:02, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 May 2012, at 16:32, Jason Resch wrote: The question I have in mind is "Does a brain produce consciousness, or does the brain filter consciousness? I had some thoughts on th

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On May 31, 1:45 am, Jason Resch wrote: > Craig, > > You mentioned that you can open a remote desktop connection from a > virtualized computer to a real computer (or even the one running the > virtualization). > > This, as Quentin mentioned, requires an interface.  In this case it is > provided by

Re: was Relativity of Existence

On 5/29/2012 11:39 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 May 2012, at 19:27, meekerdb wrote: On 5/29/2012 12:27 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I doubt infinities. I can doubt actual infinities. Not potential infinities, which gives sense to any non stooping program notion. Comp is ontologically finit

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On May 31, 1:54 am, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > 2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > > > On May 30, 6:09 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > > You are defining a 'real computer' in terms in terms that you are > > > > smuggling in from our real world of physics. In a Church-Turing > > > > Matrix, why would the

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > On May 31, 1:54 am, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > 2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > > > > > On May 30, 6:09 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > > > > You are defining a 'real computer' in terms in terms that you are > > > > > smuggling in from our real world of physics. In a Ch

Re: free will and mathematics

Brian, thanks for the excerpt from the Stanford Enc. It is the usual 'scientifically' diluted 'everything', yet includes some supprt for John's quoted phrase. May I add my contribution (not included in the Enc.-txt: In -MY- belief system we are part of that infinite complexity we may call "world"

Re: Church Turing be dammed. (Probability Question)

On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 3:27 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 29 May 2012, at 22:26, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> >> To see this the following thought experience can help. Some guy won a >> price consisting in visiting Mars by teleportatio

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On 5/31/2012 8:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I think there are many tricks the brain employs against itself to aid the selfish propagation of its genes. One example is the concept of the ego (having an identity). Agreed. As I said just above. So having an identity, a unity of thoughts, depends

Re: Free will in MWI

On Wed, May 30, 2012 Craig Weinberg wrote: > You are the source. You cause it to be written > And if nothing caused me to write it, if there was no reason for it, then somebody would have to be a fool to waste their time in reading it. Writing without a reason is gibberish and only a idiot reads

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On May 31, 2:33 am, Jason Resch wrote: > On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > On May 29, 1:45 am, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > So which of the following four link(s) in the logical chain do you take > > > issue with? > > > > A. human brain (and body) comprises matter and ene

Re: free will and mathematics

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Brian Tenneson wrote: >> Of course it doesn't, nothing real can have anything to do with "free >> will" because "free will" is gibberish. >> > > http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/freewill/ > I stopped reading after the first line: “Free Will” is a philosophica

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On May 31, 12:26 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > 2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > > > > > > > > > > > On May 31, 1:54 am, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > 2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > > > > > On May 30, 6:09 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > > > > You are defining a 'real computer' in terms in terms that yo

Re: Free will in MWI

On May 31, 1:10 pm, John Clark wrote: > On Wed, May 30, 2012 Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > You are the source. You cause it to be written > > And if nothing caused me to write it, if there was no reason for it, then > somebody would have to be a fool to waste their time in reading it. Writing > wit

Re: free will and mathematics

On 31 May 2012, at 17:03, John Clark wrote: On Wed, May 30, 2012 Bruno Marchal wrote: > The axiom of choice just asserts that an arbitrary product of a family of non empty set is non empty. True, but my dictionary says "arbitrary" means "based on a random choice or personal whim". It

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > On May 31, 12:26 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > 2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 31, 1:54 am, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > 2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > > > > > > > On May 30, 6:09 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > > > > > >

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On May 31, 1:58 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > 2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > > > > > > > > > > > On May 31, 12:26 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > 2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > > > > > On May 31, 1:54 am, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > > 2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > > > > > > > On May 30, 6:09 pm, Quen

Re: free will and mathematics

On 5/31/2012 10:24 AM, John Clark wrote: On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Brian Tenneson > wrote: >> Of course it doesn't, nothing real can have anything to do with "free will" because "free will" is gibberish. http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/f

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > On May 31, 1:58 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > 2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 31, 12:26 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > 2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > > > > > > > On May 31, 1:54 am, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > > > 2012/

Re: free will and mathematics

On 5/31/2012 10:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: it even has something to do with intelligence. When Alan Turing designed the first stored program electronic digital computer, the Manchester Mark 1, he insisted it have a hardware random number generator incorporated in it because he felt that pseudo

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On 5/31/2012 12:10 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On May 31, 1:45 am, Jason Resch wrote: Craig, You mentioned that you can open a remote desktop connection from a virtualized computer to a real computer (or even the one running the virtualization). This, as Quentin mentioned, requires an interface

Re: was Relativity of Existence

On 31 May 2012, at 18:13, meekerdb wrote: On 5/29/2012 11:39 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 May 2012, at 19:27, meekerdb wrote: On 5/29/2012 12:27 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I doubt infinities. I can doubt actual infinities. Not potential infinities, which gives sense to any non stoop

Re: Church Turing be dammed. (Probability Question)

On 31 May 2012, at 18:29, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 3:27 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 May 2012, at 22:26, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: To see this the following thought experience can help. Some guy won a price co

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On 31 May 2012, at 18:56, meekerdb wrote: On 5/31/2012 8:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I think there are many tricks the brain employs against itself to aid the selfish propagation of its genes. One example is the concept of the ego (having an identity). Agreed. As I said just above. S

Re: Church Turing be dammed. (Probability Question)

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 31 May 2012, at 18:29, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 3:27 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> >> On 29 May 2012, at 22:26, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> >>>

Re: free will and mathematics

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 2:20 PM, meekerdb wrote: > > If they are "rational agents" then it's rational and if it's rational > then there is a reason behind it and if there is a reason behind it then > it's deterministic. > > > That's not logically the case. People who believe in 'free will' think

Re: Church Turing be dammed. (Probability Question)

On 5/31/2012 12:38 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Bruno Marchal > wrote: On 31 May 2012, at 18:29, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 3:27 AM, Bruno Marchal mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be>> wrote: On 29 May 2012, at 2

Re: Free will in MWI

On Thu, May 31, 2012 Craig Weinberg wrote: > Does that mean that anyone who quotes Lewis Carroll's gibberish is an > idiot? > There were reasons behind Lewis Carroll's writings and so what he wrote was nonsense not gibberish; "I do six impossible things before breakfast" is nonsense, "sdfgsaiywj

Re: free will and mathematics

On 5/31/2012 12:39 PM, John Clark wrote: On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 2:20 PM, meekerdb > wrote: > If they are "rational agents" then it's rational and if it's rational then there is a reason behind it and if there is a reason behind it then it's deterministic.

Re: Free will in MWI

On May 31, 3:49 pm, John Clark wrote: > There were reasons behind Lewis Carroll's writings and so what he wrote was > nonsense not gibberish; "I do six impossible things before breakfast" is > nonsense, "sdfgsaiywjevry66baq" is gibberish, as is "free will". Except that sdfgsaiywjevry66baq is not

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On May 31, 2:22 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > To know what an interface is... how 2 programs communicate. The way you > talk is like "hey dude it's in the OS !"... like the operating system was > not a software... No, I'm saying it's all software, except for the hardware. That has been my point f

Re: Free will in MWI

On 5/31/2012 1:41 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On May 31, 3:49 pm, John Clark wrote: There were reasons behind Lewis Carroll's writings and so what he wrote was nonsense not gibberish; "I do six impossible things before breakfast" is nonsense, "sdfgsaiywjevry66baq" is gibberish, as is "free will"

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On May 31, 2:29 pm, "Stephen P. King" wrote: > >      It seems that we might be glossing over the difference between > hardware and software... > Hi Stephen, Yes, that seems to be the case a lot. I guess it can be confusing, but I'm not sure why. If a cat can pee on it, then it's hardware. Cra

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > On May 31, 2:22 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > To know what an interface is... how 2 programs communicate. The way you > > talk is like "hey dude it's in the OS !"... like the operating system was > > not a software... > > No, I'm saying it's all software, except for

Re: Free will in MWI

On May 31, 5:12 pm, meekerdb wrote: > On 5/31/2012 1:41 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > On May 31, 3:49 pm, John Clark  wrote: > > >> There were reasons behind Lewis Carroll's writings and so what he wrote was > >> nonsense not gibberish; "I do six impossible things before breakfast" is > >> nonse

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On May 31, 5:15 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > 2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > > > > > > > > > > > On May 31, 2:22 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > To know what an interface is... how 2 programs communicate. The way you > > > talk is like "hey dude it's in the OS !"... like the operating system was >

Re: Free will in MWI

Following the last couple of weeks of exchange between Craig and John Clark... Interesting. I would say John has the edge. And I have some comments... Does a Free Willer believe they willed themselves into existence in this Universe? They seem to think this free will has some ability to manipu