Re: Autonomy?

2012-07-03 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 3:21 AM, David Nyman da...@davidnyman.com wrote: On 2 July 2012 17:50, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: And one nanosecond after the copying when one receives sensory impulses that originated in Moscow and the other receives sensory impulses that originated in

Re: Autonomy?

2012-07-03 Thread David Nyman
On 3 July 2012 08:09, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: I'm pretty sure John understands the argument but he prefers to give primacy to the objective/third-person viewpoint. The first-person viewpoint involves an assumption that I am a single person travelling through time in the

Re: Autonomy?

2012-07-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Jul 2012, at 22:17, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: The profound thing is that in Helsinki he does not know which one he will feel to be, so he is confronted with an indeterminacy Suppose I send the same identical Email to both you

Re: what is mechanism?

2012-07-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Jul 2012, at 20:12, meekerdb wrote: On 7/2/2012 7:36 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Do you really not see any difference between tables and chairs and people and numbers, Chairs and people are also mathematical objects, just really complex ones with a large information content. This is

Re: what is mechanism?

2012-07-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Jul 2012, at 20:21, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 1:12 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/2/2012 7:36 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Do you really not see any difference between tables and chairs and people and numbers, Chairs and people are also mathematical

Re: what is mechanism?

2012-07-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Jul 2012, at 21:01, meekerdb wrote: On 7/2/2012 11:21 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 1:12 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/2/2012 7:36 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Do you really not see any difference between tables and chairs and people and numbers,

Re: what is mechanism?

2012-07-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Jul 2012, at 21:08, meekerdb wrote: On 7/2/2012 11:50 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 02.07.2012 20:12 meekerdb said the following: On 7/2/2012 7:36 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Do you really not see any difference between tables and chairs and people and numbers, Chairs and people are

Re: what is mechanism?

2012-07-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Jul 2012, at 23:09, Jason Resch wrote: To summarize our conversation up to this point: BM: Do you really not see any difference between tables and chairs and people and numbers, JR: Chairs and people are also mathematical objects, just really complex ones with a large information

Re: Autonomy?

2012-07-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 03 Jul 2012, at 12:05, David Nyman wrote: On 3 July 2012 08:09, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: I'm pretty sure John understands the argument but he prefers to give primacy to the objective/third-person viewpoint. The first-person viewpoint involves an assumption that I am a

Re: what is mechanism?

2012-07-03 Thread Jason Resch
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 11:55 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/2/2012 6:15 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 5:35 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/2/2012 2:09 PM, Jason Resch wrote: To summarize our conversation up to this point: BM: Do you

Re: what is mechanism?

2012-07-03 Thread Jason Resch
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 02 Jul 2012, at 23:09, Jason Resch wrote: To summarize our conversation up to this point: BM: Do you really not see any difference between tables and chairs and people and numbers, JR: Chairs and people are also

Re: Autonomy?

2012-07-03 Thread John Clark
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Suppose I send the same identical Email to both you and to Craig at the same identical time, you look at your copy and think when John hit the send button on his computer he could not have predicted that I would get this copy of

Re: Autonomy?

2012-07-03 Thread John Clark
On 3 July 2012 Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: I'm pretty sure John understands the argument but he prefers to give primacy to the objective/third-person viewpoint. On the contrary, the first person subjective viewpoint is the most important thing in the universe, or at least

Re: what is mechanism?

2012-07-03 Thread smitra
Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 7/2/2012 6:15 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 5:35 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/2/2012 2:09 PM, Jason Resch wrote: To summarize our conversation up to this point:

Re: Autonomy?

2012-07-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 03 Jul 2012, at 18:02, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Suppose I send the same identical Email to both you and to Craig at the same identical time, you look at your copy and think when John hit the send button on his computer he could not

Re: what is mechanism?

2012-07-03 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 02.07.2012 22:01 meekerdb said the following: On 7/2/2012 12:45 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 02.07.2012 21:08 meekerdb said the following: On 7/2/2012 11:50 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... Where to will you place 'description' in the physicalism? Is this just some excitation of natural

Re: what is mechanism?

2012-07-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 03 Jul 2012, at 16:33, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 02 Jul 2012, at 23:09, Jason Resch wrote: To summarize our conversation up to this point: BM: Do you really not see any difference between tables and chairs and

Re: Autonomy?

2012-07-03 Thread meekerdb
On 7/3/2012 10:46 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: No matter what diary entry I come up with you keep saying it would not disprove your theory because of blah blah point of view blah blah, so I want you to tell me exactly what diary entry WOULD disprove your theory? I will feel to be in W. Confirmed