Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 12:41 AM, meekerdb wrote: > On 2/8/2013 2:14 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > > My point is that the only possible write algorithm that doesn't read > information that is already stored is one that starts writing at random in > any position. You could erase or corrupt previou

Re: context, comp, and multiverses

On 08 Feb 2013, at 10:30, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 06 Feb 2013, at 18:02, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 5:01 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 06 Feb 2013, at 12:19, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 6:

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

On 08 Feb 2013, at 13:45, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes Well, while going from Telmo to the cat,

Re: The Plant Teachers

Opinions about this? As allways, excuses for my dyslexic writing. Sometimes I can not avoid it That plants produce physyological and psichological alterations in order to defend themselves from being eaten is a almost evident fact. Domestications of a plant is the effort to enlarge their edibilit

Re: The Plant Teachers

On 09 Feb 2013, at 12:55, Alberto G. Corona wrote: Opinions about this? As allways, excuses for my dyslexic writing. Sometimes I can not avoid it I will come back later, when I have more time, on this. Here I will just assess what you say below: That plants produce physyological and

Re: The Plant Teachers

On 08 Feb 2013, at 21:38, meekerdb wrote: On 2/8/2013 12:31 AM, Kim Jones wrote: Which is a profound problem that we can lay right at the door of LANGUAGE. Language is indeed a self-serving thing. A description of something is a dance of language, not a dance of PERCEPTION. Perception i

Re: The Plant Teachers

On Saturday, February 9, 2013 8:15:21 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 08 Feb 2013, at 21:38, meekerdb wrote: > > On 2/8/2013 12:31 AM, Kim Jones wrote: > > Which is a profound problem that we can lay right at the door of LANGUAGE. > Language is indeed a self-serving thing. A descriptio

Re: The Plant Teachers

On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 3:14 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > On Saturday, February 9, 2013 8:15:21 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 08 Feb 2013, at 21:38, meekerdb wrote: >> >> On 2/8/2013 12:31 AM, Kim Jones wrote: >> >> Which is a profound problem that we can lay right at the door of >

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 ameekerdb wrote: > > > Evolution can only move species to local maxima of fitness. > That is true and is a severe limitation of Evolution, a limitation a mind designed by a intelligence, like a computer, would not have. You seem to be saying that a mind made in a crappy hap

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

On 2/9/2013 1:43 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 12:41 AM, meekerdb > wrote: On 2/8/2013 2:14 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: My point is that the only possible write algorithm that doesn't read information that is already stored is one th

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 Craig Weinberg wrote: > If geometry did not exist. Could you invent it with mathematics alone? > Mathematicians have invented geometries of 5, 6, 7, or even a infinite number of dimensions as in Hilbert space even though they have no tactile experience of such things. They

Re: The Plant Teachers

On Saturday, February 9, 2013 10:10:30 AM UTC-5, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: > > > > On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 3:14 PM, Craig Weinberg > > > wrote: > >> >> >> On Saturday, February 9, 2013 8:15:21 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 08 Feb 2013, at 21:38, meekerdb wrote: >>> >>> On

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Saturday, February 9, 2013 1:31:55 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 Craig Weinberg >wrote: > > > If geometry did not exist. Could you invent it with mathematics alone? >> > > Mathematicians have invented geometries of 5, 6, 7, or even a infinite > number of dimensions as

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Saturday, February 9, 2013 1:31:55 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 Craig Weinberg >wrote: > > > If geometry did not exist. Could you invent it with mathematics alone? >> > > Mathematicians have invented geometries of 5, 6, 7, or even a infinite > number of dimensions as

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

But then doesn't that leave subjectivity fundamentally mysterious? If form/geometry is first and math second (which fits my own understanding at this time) the what is it that is apprehending math? And does it have form? ~Simon On 2/9/13, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > On Saturday, February 9, 201

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Saturday, February 9, 2013 3:32:52 PM UTC-5, Simon Forman wrote: > > But then doesn't that leave subjectivity fundamentally mysterious? > I think that human subjectivity is a range of qualities of experience, some rooted in the sub-personal, some in the super-personal, and some reflected f

Re: HOW YOU CAN BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN IN JUST 4 STEPS.

On 2/9/2013 6:16 AM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: If you make evolution set the standard, then you have to buy the darker side of its theology: "Good Tsunami, asteroid, CO2, mass extinctions of life forms; as these shocks will create a stronger forcing function on populations and individuals t

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

On 2/9/2013 7:52 AM, John Clark wrote: On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 ameekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: > Evolution can only move species to local maxima of fitness. That is true and is a severe limitation of Evolution, a limitation a mind designed by a intelligence, like a computer, wo

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 08 Feb 2013, at 13:45, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > 2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes > >> >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> 2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes >>> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11

Re: HOW YOU CAN BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN IN JUST 4 STEPS.

On Saturday, February 9, 2013 5:03:58 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > On 2/9/2013 6:16 AM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: > > If you make evolution set the standard, then you have to buy the darker > side of its theology: "Good Tsunami, asteroid, CO2, mass extinctions of > life forms; as these sho

Re: HOW YOU CAN BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN IN JUST 4 STEPS.

On 2/9/2013 3:08 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: Evolution would have no need for generating values, since values are a subjective motivation. "Subjective motivation" is just a quantitative value seen from the inside. All evolution would have to do is simply impose a script that assigns a high prio

Re: HOW YOU CAN BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN IN JUST 4 STEPS.

On Saturday, February 9, 2013 6:29:54 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > On 2/9/2013 3:08 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > Evolution would have no need for generating values, since values are a > subjective > > motivation. > > "Subjective motivation" is just a quantitative value seen from the inside. >

Re: HOW YOU CAN BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN IN JUST 4 STEPS.

On 2/9/2013 3:39 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, February 9, 2013 6:29:54 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 2/9/2013 3:08 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > Evolution would have no need for generating values, since values are a subjective > motivation. "Subjective motivation" is just

Re: The Plant Teachers

What an extraordinarily interesting idea, Craig! I'll have to let Brian Eno know about this. Eno was recently talking about the possibilities of a new kind of "inaudible music". Actually, John Cage already "invented" that in the '50s with his infamous piece "4'.33" " - where the pianist walks to

Re: HOW YOU CAN BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN IN JUST 4 STEPS.

On Saturday, February 9, 2013 6:52:46 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > On 2/9/2013 3:39 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > On Saturday, February 9, 2013 6:29:54 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >> >> On 2/9/2013 3:08 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> > Evolution would have no need for generating values, since valu

Re: HOW YOU CAN BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN IN JUST 4 STEPS.

On 2/9/2013 4:39 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, February 9, 2013 6:52:46 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 2/9/2013 3:39 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, February 9, 2013 6:29:54 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 2/9/2013 3:08 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > Evolution wou

Re: The Plant Teachers

On Saturday, February 9, 2013 6:54:38 PM UTC-5, Kim Jones wrote: > > What an extraordinarily interesting idea, Craig! I'll have to let Brian > Eno know about this. Eno was recently talking about the possibilities of a > new kind of "inaudible music". Actually, John Cage already "invented" that

Re: HOW YOU CAN BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN IN JUST 4 STEPS.

On Saturday, February 9, 2013 7:57:03 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > On 2/9/2013 4:39 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > On Saturday, February 9, 2013 6:52:46 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >> >> On 2/9/2013 3:39 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, February 9, 2013 6:29:54 PM UTC-5, Brent

Re: HOW YOU CAN BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN IN JUST 4 STEPS.

On 2/9/2013 5:13 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: It's how I recognize intelligence - and so do you. No, I recognize intelligence by experiencing learning. If there were an Elvis impersonator who was so good that you could not tell the difference between a film of him performing and one of Elv

Re: HOW YOU CAN BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN IN JUST 4 STEPS.

On Saturday, February 9, 2013 9:07:50 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > On 2/9/2013 5:13 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > >> It's how I recognize intelligence - and so do you. >> > > No, I recognize intelligence by experiencing learning. If there were an > Elvis impersonator who was so good that you

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> You are convinced that computers and other machines >> don't have consciousness, but you can't say what test you will apply >> to them and see them fail. > > > I'm convinced of that because I understand why there is no reason why they > wou

Science is a religion by itself.

How to describe the Universe as it really is ? =. In his " Scientific Autobiography" Max Planck wrote : ' The outside world is something independent from man, something absolute, and the quest for the laws which apply to this absolute appeared to me as the most sublime scientific pursuit in

Re: Science is a religion by itself.

On 2/9/2013 10:46 PM, socra...@bezeqint.net wrote: How to describe the Universe as it really is ? =. In his " Scientific Autobiography" Max Planck wrote : ' The outside world is something independent from man, something absolute, and the quest for the laws which apply to this absolute