Re: STEP 3

On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 3:16 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > On 7/24/2019 4:28 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > Note that the personal identity is not a transitive notion. Step 3 >> actually illustrates well this. I recall he cut and copy itself from

Re: Observation versus assumption

On Wednesday, July 24, 2019 at 8:24:46 PM UTC-5, Russell Standish wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 03:57:14AM -0700, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > > > On Wednesday, July 24, 2019 at 5:34:38 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > > > > The concept of “Matter” is never used in any paper

Re: STEP 3

On 7/24/2019 4:28 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Note that the personal identity is not a transitive notion. Step 3 actually illustrates well this. I recall he cut and copy itself from Helsinki (H) in both Washington (W) and Moscow (M). With the definition of the personal identity

Re: STEP 3

On Wednesday, July 24, 2019 at 1:28:34 PM UTC+2, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 24 Jul 2019, at 01:02, Bruce Kellett > > wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 1:06 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > >> On 23 Jul 2019, at 06:45, Bruce Kellett > >> wrote: >> >> On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 2:30 PM Stathis

Re: Observation versus assumption

On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 03:57:14AM -0700, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > On Wednesday, July 24, 2019 at 5:34:38 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > The concept of “Matter” is never used in any paper in physics, only in > materialist philosophy.  > > > >

Re: Observation versus assumption

Von Neumann's project was the physical realization of Alan Turing's Universal Machine, *a theoretical construct* invented in 1936. https://gizmodo.com/how-to-build-turing-s-universal-machine-5891399 turing did design this, whicj was built.

Re: Historical contingency and the futility of reductionism

I bet that biology is reducible to physics and the belief, since that is what it is, a belief, is one reason we have missed the boat on the life sciences apparently. We still can' (won't) bring basic physical elements and from this create organisms. My suspicion that since the days or Urey,

Re: Observation versus assumption

Le mer. 24 juil. 2019 à 21:57, John Clark a écrit : > On 23 Jul 2019, at 20:16, Philip Thrift wrote: > > *> In 1972, Washington University professors Wesley Clark and Bob Arnzen >> likely made the first physical version of Turing's machine.* > > > I think that estimate is off by at least

Re: Observation versus assumption

On 23 Jul 2019, at 20:16, Philip Thrift wrote: *> In 1972, Washington University professors Wesley Clark and Bob Arnzen > likely made the first physical version of Turing's machine.* I think that estimate is off by at least fifteen orders of magnitude, not counting stuff that may be on other

Re: Observation versus assumption

On 7/24/2019 11:31 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Wed, Jul 24, 2019, at 17:41, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/23/2019 11:52 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Tue, Jul 23, 2019, at 17:33, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/23/2019 4:50 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Hi

Re: Observation versus assumption

On Wednesday, July 24, 2019 at 1:24:37 PM UTC-5, telmo wrote: > > > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2019, at 18:08, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, July 24, 2019 at 8:18:09 AM UTC-5, telmo wrote: > > > Brent argues that the consciousness problem will be solved by building AIs > that behave in such

Re: Observation versus assumption

On Wed, Jul 24, 2019, at 17:41, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: > > > On 7/23/2019 11:52 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jul 23, 2019, at 17:33, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: > >> > >> On 7/23/2019 4:50 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > >>> Hi Brent, > >>> > >>> On

Re: Observation versus assumption

On Wed, Jul 24, 2019, at 18:08, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > On Wednesday, July 24, 2019 at 8:18:09 AM UTC-5, telmo wrote: >> >> Brent argues that the consciousness problem will be solved by building AIs >> that behave in such a way as to convince us they are conscious. My point is >> that

Re: Observation versus assumption

On 7/24/2019 2:50 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 23 Jul 2019, at 00:12, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: On 7/22/2019 7:28 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: The only one I know for a fact to exist. Nobody can know that a world exist. You would

Re: Observation versus assumption

On Wednesday, July 24, 2019 at 8:18:09 AM UTC-5, telmo wrote: > > > Brent argues that the consciousness problem will be solved by building AIs > that behave in such a way as to convince us they are conscious. My point is > that our relation to an AI tells us nothing about consciousness. > >

Re: Observation versus assumption

On 7/23/2019 11:52 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Tue, Jul 23, 2019, at 17:33, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/23/2019 4:50 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Hi Brent, On Fri, Jul 19, 2019, at 22:04, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/19/2019 4:49 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:

Re: Observation versus assumption

On Wed, Jul 24, 2019, at 07:58, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 5:25 PM Telmo Menezes wrote: >> __ >> On Wed, Jul 24, 2019, at 07:08, Bruce Kellett wrote: >>> On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 4:52 PM Telmo Menezes >>> wrote: I attended a presentation the other day of a

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

> On 23 Jul 2019, at 20:26, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, July 23, 2019 at 9:23:45 AM UTC-5, telmo wrote: > > > On Tue, Jul 23, 2019, at 14:15, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> On Tuesday, July 23, 2019 at 8:56:07 AM UTC-5, telmo wrote: >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 23, 2019, at 13:45,

Re: STEP 3

> On 24 Jul 2019, at 01:02, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 1:06 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > On 23 Jul 2019, at 06:45, Bruce Kellett > wrote: >> On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 2:30 PM Stathis Papaioannou >

Re: Observation versus assumption

> On 23 Jul 2019, at 20:16, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, July 23, 2019 at 10:57:51 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 10:28 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > > > > When you have a Turing universal machinery, you have a Turing machine, > > You don't unless the

Re: Observation versus assumption

> On 23 Jul 2019, at 17:57, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 10:28 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > > >>> Which World? > > >>The only one I know for a fact to exist. > > > Nobody can know that a world exist. > > Does anybody know what "exists" means?

Re: Observation versus assumption

On Wednesday, July 24, 2019 at 5:34:38 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > The concept of “Matter” is never used in any paper in physics, only in > materialist philosophy. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02062-0 *Strange topological materials are popping up everywhere

Re: Historical contingency and the futility of reductionism

"Brain" is just an idea in consciousness. If your question is "Can anything be known without a consciousness knowing it?", then again, consciousness can only know itself. On Monday, 22 July 2019 16:26:17 UTC+3, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Monday, July 22, 2019 at 5:46:25 AM UTC-5, Cosmin

Re: Observation versus assumption

> On 23 Jul 2019, at 13:50, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > Hi Brent, > > On Fri, Jul 19, 2019, at 22:04, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: >> >> >> On 7/19/2019 4:49 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: >>> I share their perplexity. The idea of immaterialism is natural (and >>> arises thousands of

Re: Historical contingency and the futility of reductionism

On Wednesday, July 24, 2019 at 4:59:35 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > Biology is certainly different from physics, but that does not mean that > terrestrial biology is not conceptually reducible to physics. > > Like with mechanism, physics remains different from arithmetic and > computer

Re: Historical contingency and the futility of reductionism

> On 22 Jul 2019, at 22:33, spudboy100 via Everything List > wrote: > > I would say that physics is diff from inorganic chemistry and biological > science, in the sense that how academics observe and measure phenomena. Its a > Venn diagram in which the circles or ovals align one on top of

Re: Historical contingency and the futility of reductionism

> On 22 Jul 2019, at 19:36, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Monday, July 22, 2019 at 8:31:35 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 22 Jul 2019, at 11:44, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Why chemistry (and biology) is not physics >> >>

Re: Observation versus assumption

> On 23 Jul 2019, at 00:12, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 7/22/2019 7:28 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> The only one I know for a fact to exist. >> >> Nobody can know that a world exist. You would know that you are consistent, >> making you inconsistent. > > A

Re: Observation versus assumption

> On 23 Jul 2019, at 01:17, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 10:03 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > > >> Yes you can implement lambda expressions physically but it's not "more > >> simple" because the "basic physical substitution" always comes back to a >

Re: Observation versus assumption

> On 23 Jul 2019, at 00:32, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 4:15 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > > >> I don't care if you assume "primary matter" or not regardless of what that > >> piece of philosophical gobbledygook happens to mean today. I am just >

Re: Observation versus assumption

> On 22 Jul 2019, at 19:56, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 4:08 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > > >> You keep confusing stuff that can *do* things from stuff that can not > > > You keep assuming that such things exists. > > You keep assuming existence

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On Wednesday, July 24, 2019 at 3:05:16 AM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan wrote: > > Keep in mind that "matter" is just an idea in consciousness. > > On Tuesday, 23 July 2019 16:45:29 UTC+3, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> Keep in mind there is no consciousness without matter. >> > But even given that the

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

You talk of life as if is some kind of mechanism, which is not. Life is a product of consciousness. So your entire analysis is beyond meaninglessness. On Tuesday, 23 July 2019 22:07:05 UTC+3, smitra wrote: > > On 23-07-2019 04:10, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: > > On 7/22/2019 3:55

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

Keep in mind that "matter" is just an idea in consciousness. On Tuesday, 23 July 2019 16:45:29 UTC+3, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > Keep in mind there is no consciousness without matter. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To

Re: Observation versus assumption

On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 5:25 PM Telmo Menezes wrote: > On Wed, Jul 24, 2019, at 07:08, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 4:52 PM Telmo Menezes > wrote: > > > I attended a presentation the other day of a psychologist who is > investigating the sort of relationships that people

Re: Observation versus assumption

On Wed, Jul 24, 2019, at 07:08, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 4:52 PM Telmo Menezes wrote: >> >> I attended a presentation the other day of a psychologist who is >> investigating the sort of relationships that people develop with voice >> assistants such as Alexa. She told

Re: Observation versus assumption

On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 4:52 PM Telmo Menezes wrote: > > I attended a presentation the other day of a psychologist who is > investigating the sort of relationships that people develop with voice > assistants such as Alexa. She told the story of a woman who admits to being > emotionally attached

Re: Observation versus assumption

On Tue, Jul 23, 2019, at 17:33, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: > > > On 7/23/2019 4:50 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > Hi Brent, > > > > On Fri, Jul 19, 2019, at 22:04, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: > >> > >> On 7/19/2019 4:49 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > >>> I share their

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On Tue, Jul 23, 2019, at 18:26, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > On Tuesday, July 23, 2019 at 9:23:45 AM UTC-5, telmo wrote: >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 23, 2019, at 14:15, Philip Thrift wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, July 23, 2019 at 8:56:07 AM UTC-5, telmo wrote: On Tue, Jul 23,