Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-26 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 26 Mar 2013, at 00:25, Russell Standish wrote: On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 04:59:05PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 24 Mar 2013, at 22:50, Russell Standish wrote: This is true, however real randomness is aavailable, through the very first person ineterminancy phenomenon you mention below,

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-26 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:25 AM, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote: On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 04:59:05PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 24 Mar 2013, at 22:50, Russell Standish wrote: This is true, however real randomness is aavailable, through the very first person ineterminancy

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-26 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 21 Mar 2013, at 13:46, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 6:08 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 19 Mar 2013, at 17:34, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 5:05 PM, Bruno Marchal

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-25 Thread John Clark
No machine can distinguish randomness from the behavior of a more complex machine than herself It's true that in general a machine cannot prove that something is purely random, but a human can't do that either nor can anything else. If the smallest computer program that can generate a string of

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-25 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 24 Mar 2013, at 22:50, Russell Standish wrote: On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 02:05:23PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 21 Mar 2013, at 13:46, Telmo Menezes wrote: I still find it hard to grasp how we could have a creative process without some degree of random exploration. Why random. Pseudo

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-25 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Mar 2013, at 15:47, John Clark wrote: No machine can distinguish randomness from the behavior of a more complex machine than herself It's true that in general a machine cannot prove that something is purely random, but a human can't do that either nor can anything else. If the

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-25 Thread Russell Standish
On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 04:59:05PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 24 Mar 2013, at 22:50, Russell Standish wrote: This is true, however real randomness is aavailable, through the very first person ineterminancy phenomenon you mention below, and evolution doesn't care, it will exploit

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-24 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 21 Mar 2013, at 13:46, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 6:08 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 19 Mar 2013, at 17:34, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 5:05 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: So here the speed is of conceptual importance. If

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-24 Thread Russell Standish
On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 02:05:23PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 21 Mar 2013, at 13:46, Telmo Menezes wrote: I still find it hard to grasp how we could have a creative process without some degree of random exploration. Why random. Pseudo random can be enough, or the natural randomness

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-22 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 21 Mar 2013, at 23:04, Russell Standish wrote: On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 01:46:11PM +0100, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 6:08 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: But still, I tend to bet that creativity, if he can exploit it, is still independent of it. I still

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-22 Thread John Clark
The following article about Quantum Computers was on page one of the business section of today's New York Times: VANCOUVER, British Columbia — Our digital age is all about bits, those precise ones and zeros that are the stuff of modern computer code. But a powerful new type of computer

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-22 Thread Stephen P. King
On 3/22/2013 1:22 PM, John Clark wrote: The following article about Quantum Computers was on page one of the business section of today's New York Times: VANCOUVER, British Columbia — Our digital age is all about bits, those precise ones and zeros that are the stuff of modern

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-21 Thread Telmo Menezes
13195212121 Demonstrating these sorts of exponential speedups only falsifies the proposition that a human mind is an ordinary classical computer (but not COMP). It does not confirm in any way that a human mind operates as a quantum computer, since random oracles are another way of bridging

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-21 Thread Russell Standish
On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 01:46:11PM +0100, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 6:08 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: But still, I tend to bet that creativity, if he can exploit it, is still independent of it. I still find it hard to grasp how we could have a creative

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-21 Thread Stephen P. King
On 3/21/2013 6:04 PM, Russell Standish wrote: On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 01:46:11PM +0100, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 6:08 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: But still, I tend to bet that creativity, if he can exploit it, is still independent of it. I still find it

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 19 Mar 2013, at 23:40, meekerdb wrote: On 3/19/2013 11:00 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 19 Mar 2013, at 18:35, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 19 Mar 2013, at 17:34, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: snip (see the preview post) As an example, I could point you to the Genome Wager between Lewis

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-20 Thread Stephen P. King
On 3/20/2013 6:26 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 19 Mar 2013, at 23:40, meekerdb wrote: I think it likely that the first applications will be providing soldiers with augmented senses and communication. Just as AI research has been funded by the military. Threats of war are often used to

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-20 Thread meekerdb
On 3/20/2013 10:59 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 3/20/2013 6:26 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 19 Mar 2013, at 23:40, meekerdb wrote: I think it likely that the first applications will be providing soldiers with augmented senses and communication. Just as AI research has been funded by the

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-20 Thread Stephen P. King
On 3/20/2013 4:04 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 3/20/2013 10:59 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 3/20/2013 6:26 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 19 Mar 2013, at 23:40, meekerdb wrote: I think it likely that the first applications will be providing soldiers with augmented senses and communication. Just as

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-20 Thread meekerdb
On 3/20/2013 2:19 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 3/20/2013 4:04 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 3/20/2013 10:59 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 3/20/2013 6:26 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 19 Mar 2013, at 23:40, meekerdb wrote: I think it likely that the first applications will be providing soldiers with

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-19 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 18.03.2013 19:39 Bruno Marchal said the following: Hi Roger, On 18 Mar 2013, at 12:48, Roger Clough wrote: Since mind is an MQS or Multiple Quantum Superposition, it can process information at the rate of a quantum computer. Since you seem to talk philosophy, let me translate what you

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-19 Thread Bruno Marchal
13195212121 Demonstrating these sorts of exponential speedups only falsifies the proposition that a human mind is an ordinary classical computer (but not COMP). OK. It does not confirm in any way that a human mind operates as a quantum computer, since random oracles are another way

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-19 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 19 Mar 2013, at 10:48, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 18.03.2013 19:39 Bruno Marchal said the following: Hi Roger, On 18 Mar 2013, at 12:48, Roger Clough wrote: Since mind is an MQS or Multiple Quantum Superposition, it can process information at the rate of a quantum computer. Since you

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-19 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 19.03.2013 12:39 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 19 Mar 2013, at 10:48, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 18.03.2013 19:39 Bruno Marchal said the following: ... 1) show me a human as good as a quantum computer for finding a needle in a haystack. Could you show me a quantum computer that

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-19 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 19 Mar 2013, at 15:27, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 19.03.2013 12:39 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 19 Mar 2013, at 10:48, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 18.03.2013 19:39 Bruno Marchal said the following: ... 1) show me a human as good as a quantum computer for finding a needle in a

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-19 Thread Telmo Menezes
) Factorize 13195212121 Demonstrating these sorts of exponential speedups only falsifies the proposition that a human mind is an ordinary classical computer (but not COMP). It does not confirm in any way that a human mind operates as a quantum computer, since random

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-19 Thread Bruno Marchal
as a quantum computer, since random oracles are another way of bridging computational complexity classes. We only need one idiot-savant to demonstrate this. By contrast, being unable to demonstrate this scaling means - well nothing at all, actually. I agree with Russell here. More generally

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-19 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 19.03.2013 16:38 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 19 Mar 2013, at 15:27, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 19.03.2013 12:39 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 19 Mar 2013, at 10:48, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 18.03.2013 19:39 Bruno Marchal said the following: ... 1) show me a human as

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-19 Thread Telmo Menezes
classical computer (but not COMP). It does not confirm in any way that a human mind operates as a quantum computer, since random oracles are another way of bridging computational complexity classes. We only need one idiot-savant to demonstrate this. By contrast, being unable to demonstrate

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-19 Thread Bruno Marchal
the proposition that a human mind is an ordinary classical computer (but not COMP). It does not confirm in any way that a human mind operates as a quantum computer, since random oracles are another way of bridging computational complexity classes. We only need one idiot-savant to demonstrate

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-19 Thread John Clark
Factorize 13195212121 Rain Man? Even Rain Man couldn't figure out that 2^57885161 -1 is a prime number as a conventional computer did about a month ago, the number has 17,425,170 digits. This is the sort of problem that quantum computers would be

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-19 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 19 Mar 2013, at 17:34, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 19.03.2013 16:38 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 19 Mar 2013, at 15:27, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 19.03.2013 12:39 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 19 Mar 2013, at 10:48, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 18.03.2013 19:39 Bruno Marchal

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-19 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 19 Mar 2013, at 18:13, John Clark wrote: Factorize 13195212121 Rain Man? Even Rain Man couldn't figure out that 2^57885161 -1 is a prime number as a conventional computer did about a month ago, the number has 17,425,170 digits. This is the sort

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-19 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 19 Mar 2013, at 18:35, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 19 Mar 2013, at 17:34, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: snip (see the preview post) As an example, I could point you to the Genome Wager between Lewis Wolpert and Rupert Sheldrake http://www.sheldrake.org/DC/controversies/genomewager.html

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-19 Thread Russell Standish
On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 05:05:25PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 19 Mar 2013, at 16:52, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 2:06 AM, Russell Standish as a quantum computer, since random oracles are another way of bridging computational complexity classes. My point to Russell

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-19 Thread meekerdb
On 3/19/2013 11:00 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 19 Mar 2013, at 18:35, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 19 Mar 2013, at 17:34, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: snip (see the preview post) As an example, I could point you to the Genome Wager between Lewis Wolpert and Rupert Sheldrake

The mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-18 Thread Roger Clough
Hi michael haaheim Since mind is a MQS or Multiple Quantum Superposition, it can process information at the rate of a quantum computer. Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 3/18/2013 Coincidences are God's way of remaining anonymous. - Albert Einstein - Receiving the following content -

Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-18 Thread Roger Clough
Since mind is an MQS or Multiple Quantum Superposition, it can process information at the rate of a quantum computer. - Roger Clough Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 3/18/2013 Coincidences are God's way of remaining anonymous. - Albert Einstein -- You received this message because you are

Re: The mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-18 Thread Richard Ruquist
Roger, Even faster. Instantly from a human perspective, otherwie the universe cannot be holographic. Richard On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 7:44 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi michael haaheim Since mind is a MQS or Multiple Quantum Superposition, it can process information at the

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi Roger, On 18 Mar 2013, at 12:48, Roger Clough wrote: Since mind is an MQS or Multiple Quantum Superposition, it can process information at the rate of a quantum computer. Since you seem to talk philosophy, let me translate what you say for our friends the scientists. If we assume

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-18 Thread Russell Standish
these sorts of exponential speedups only falsifies the proposition that a human mind is an ordinary classical computer (but not COMP). It does not confirm in any way that a human mind operates as a quantum computer, since random oracles are another way of bridging computational complexity classes