I enjoyed Andrew's comment that Barry can be played like a kazoo, but it is
Barry who thinks he is making the music. So true! Why is it some people, like
Barry, get so blinded by their own reflection that they then assume they are so
much smarter than everyone else? I see it happen again and
I'll expand on that. TM was SOLD as a non-denominational technique
when obviously it is something else, but you can still practise it
without knowing where it all comes from, as I do. I think they should
come out of the closet and declare their religious heritage, I always
thought it
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'll expand on that. TM was SOLD as a non-denominational technique
when obviously it is something else, but you can still practise it
without knowing where it all comes from, as I do. I think they should
come out of the
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hugheshugo
richardhughes103@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@
wrote:
What if someone claims to be doing TM but is only
doing it once a day?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hugheshugo
richardhughes103@ wrote:
do you think the Dalai lama looks that different
to an independent observer?
Actually, yes, I do. He gets a much different
type of
Perhaps if the Dalai Lama made claims that his meditation could lower
crime rates, improve the weather, end war, make nations invincible
and bring about a new age of enlightenment etc etc, then maybe he
could achieve such ridicule and obscurity.
--Some statistics in US show 52 percent of
In my case TM seems to work by causing /caturthaH praaNaayaamaH/
(Bhoja: stambha-ruupo gativicchedaH; Vyaasa: shvaasa-prashavaasayoH
[...] gatyaabhaavaH). YKU sez that /samiirasya jaya/ is the first
thing to do when trying to awaken kuNDalinii. I think it's fair
to say that /samiirasya jaya/ is
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Perhaps if the Dalai Lama made claims that his meditation could lower
crime rates, improve the weather, end war, make nations invincible
and bring about a new age of enlightenment etc etc, then maybe he
could achieve such
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Perhaps if the Dalai Lama made claims that his meditation could
lower
crime rates, improve the weather, end war, make nations invincible
and bring about a new age of enlightenment etc etc, then maybe he
could achieve
IF Maharishism were to follow the course of most
major religions, however, the thing we should see
next is a period of persecution.
It's one of the key components of almost all major
religions. That feeling of being persecuted bonds
the followers together and makes their faith
stronger,
My guess is it has to have appeal in the first place. TM advertising
has a lot going for it; ending war, lowering crime rates improving
the weather etc but you don't have to be involved very long to see
that the claims don't stand up to much scrutiny.
I hope you're right and a new religion
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
My guess is it has to have appeal in the first place. TM
advertising
has a lot going for it; ending war, lowering crime rates improving
the weather etc but you don't have to be involved very long to see
that the claims
Trishakti, if you believe in Hers.
I don't believe in anything, so I'll have to take your word for all
this. But will the TMO admit that it is just another religion rather
than the only truth? I doubt it, it would lose what small non-
denominational appeal it still has and that was the
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
the process then we have a big problem.
No, that's not what I'm suggesting. I'm suggesting
the researchers may not know enough about
meditation, and TM specifically, to realize how
important it is to ensure optimal
On Feb 12, 2008, at 9:31 PM, authfriend wrote:
TM can't *force* independent researchers to attempt
replication of the TM studies. Such researchers are
more likely to want to do a study that finds adverse
effects. (One of them counted boredom as an adverse
effect, if you can imagine.) They're
On Feb 13, 2008, at 12:42 AM, ruthsimplicity wrote:
Cite please. As far as disparaging tone, I have seen some criticisms
of TM research that could be interpreted by TM researchers as having
a disparaging tone. But is it disparging when the criticism is
accurate?
Good point! For
On Feb 13, 2008, at 2:29 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:
Wise woman. The tell on this one is that
Judy still keeps trying to suck people back
into a ten-year-old debate. What this vendetta
is really about is her trying to get a belated
revenge against Skolnick for the crime of col-
lecting her own
On Feb 12, 2008, at 10:54 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Going from memory here, but IIRC, Omre-Johnson doesn't even note
one important thing
about how the study is quoted. It never says that that 70% of people
who start
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Feb 13, 2008, at 2:29 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:
Wise woman. The tell on this one is that
Judy still keeps trying to suck people back
into a ten-year-old debate. What this vendetta
is really about is her trying to get a
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
On Feb 13, 2008, at 2:29 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:
Wise woman. The tell on this one is that
Judy still keeps trying to suck people back
into a
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hugheshugo
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The rearchers may not know enough about meditation but they don't
actually need to. They are testing claims after all, and if someone
claims to be doing TM that's good enough for experimental purposes
because the
On Feb 13, 2008, at 7:49 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Feb 13, 2008, at 2:29 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:
Wise woman. The tell on this one is that
Judy still keeps trying to suck people back
into a ten-year-old debate. What this
Judy and Barry are great arguments for the perpetuity of samsara. It's clear
they were both married in some past. However, thanks to their ability to
transcend they have only had to relive their vrittis on the internet in this
life. Jai Guru Devabee
Judy Stein consistently tries to get
Vaj is getting his buttons pushed by Judy just like Barry.
---Vaj doesn't have buttons he has 52 subtle body chakras.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Feb 13, 2008, at 7:49 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:
[snip]
That's what SHE does. Her attempts to do this
are what she considers her accomplishments
in life. Therefore she assumes that everyone
thinks the same way.
On Feb 13, 2008, at 10:23 AM, new.morning wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Vaj is getting his buttons pushed by Judy just like Barry.
---Vaj doesn't have buttons he has 52 subtle body chakras.
Enough to play music on
Yes, I'm often the
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Vaj is getting his buttons pushed by Judy just like Barry.
---Vaj doesn't have buttons he has 52 subtle body chakras.
Enough to play music on.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity
ruthsimplicity@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@
wrote:
And then there was that awful Andrew Skolnick
article in JAMA back
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
I was going to leave the poor woman alone,
but this second attempt in a week to rejuvenate
an argument that was old and boring ten years
ago really made me think of those over-the-hill
Hollywood divas who sit in
Barry, I hope we never find out you're schitzophrenic.
- Original Message -
From: TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 1:27 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: So, does TM work?
This is hilarious, one of those moments in which
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
By the way, Andrew and I actually got to be mutually
respectful (although never friends) via email in the
end. What happened is that someone wrote to his bosses
at the Journal of the American Medical Association and
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: So, does TM work?
This is hilarious, one of those moments in which
I suspect Judy is going to wish she'd read the
followup posts BEFORE she replied with one of her
Gotta Get Barry posts. What I wrote it it is
below. Compare it to what she's saying now. She's
This is hilarious, one of those moments in which
I suspect Judy is going to wish she'd read the
followup posts BEFORE she replied with one of her
Gotta Get Barry posts. What I wrote it it is
below. Compare it to what she's saying now. She's
trying to get people to read not only HER accom-
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
By the way, Andrew and I actually got to be mutually
respectful (although never friends) via email in the
end. What happened is that someone wrote
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is hilarious, one of those moments in which
I suspect Judy is going to wish she'd read the
followup posts BEFORE she replied with one of her
Gotta Get Barry posts.
(As if this, and the two others in the same
vein,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
snip
TM can't *force* independent researchers to attempt
replication of the TM studies. Such researchers are
more likely to want to do a
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hugheshugo
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
snip
No, that's not what I'm suggesting. I'm suggesting
the researchers may not know enough about
meditation, and TM specifically, to realize how
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
Regardless, there's far more than 60 studies on TM out there
and while 600 may be an exaggeration, so is 50 or so.
He misread or misremembered something he'd read
on Trancenet, in which the writers said only
50 of the
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Feb 12, 2008, at 9:31 PM, authfriend wrote:
TM can't *force* independent researchers to attempt
replication of the TM studies. Such researchers are
more likely to want to do a study that finds adverse
effects. (One
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
Criticism can be expressed
in a neutral tone, rather than a disparaging one.
And the TMO, its researchers and people on this forum could do the
same.[;)]
snip
I said:
To this day I know plenty of MDs
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The very worst of the studies is the one commonly
known as the German study. Its formal title is
The Report of Germany's Institute for Youth and
Society on TM. It was never published, but its
findings are frequently
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hugheshugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...]
For the record, I think meditation research is going to teach us a
lot about how consciousness works but the TMO haven't demonstrated
they are the people to do it. I've read the collected scientific
research the
---You worked at the W. LA Center? Which one: Pacific Palisades or
the one on Santa Monica Blvd? I hung around there until 1981.
The people it (TM - or any other meditation technique) works for are
IMO those with some meditation experience in previous lives. This may
include a strong
So, there is at least some indication that a large number quit before
they arguably gave it a chance. TM researchers should have been
interested in this phenomenon. They could have studied how long it
took for most people to have perceptible positive results. Then they
could have passed that
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
---You worked at the W. LA Center? Which one: Pacific Palisades
or the one on Santa Monica Blvd? I hung around there until 1981.
The phone poll was done when I was working at the
center at 1015 Gayley in Westwood.
---HI worked at 1015 Gayley from 1970-Dec. 1973 but got fired
by Jerry in late 1973 due to talking too much about different Gurus.
In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor
matrixmonitor@ wrote:
On Feb 12, 2008, at 6:30 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote:
Vaj, I don't think there is enough research to conclude how many
suffer from adverse effects. it just hasn't had the interest of
scientists. But I do think that the whole concept of unstressing is
troubling as I don't know how it could be
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Feb 12, 2008, at 4:45 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote:
snip
Could it be that the simple TM technique just doesn't work
for a lot of people?
It would depend how you define work. Many quit becasue of
side effects from TM:
I
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So, there is at least some indication that a large number quit before
they arguably gave it a chance. TM researchers should have been
interested in this phenomenon. They could have studied how long it
took for
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am getting lost in the grievances thread and thought I would start
a new topic so I can find my post later on. Judy got me thinking
about the rewards of TM when we were talking about whether a technique
of
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Going from memory here, but IIRC, Omre-Johnson doesn't even note
one important thing
about how the study is quoted. It never says that that 70% of people
who start TM have
problems. Instead, it lists teh percentage
That's a ridiculous question. Of course it
doesn't/does. Just depends on your experience. I've
done it for 36 years. Yes, it works for me. In fact,
I'm really, really good at it! I sit quietly for a few
minutes, start the mantra as a faint intention and the
mind gets quieter and quieter and then
On Feb 12, 2008, at 7:01 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote:
Ha! I am headed the other way tomorrow morning, DCA to LAX, enjoying
7 plus $@*# hours in the air.
Looked at my itinerary: no indication of a movie, and food is listed
as food available for purchase. Sheesh.
A carry on with snacks,
My daughter was initiated around six months ago. She said that she
tried it for one month at the University where she lives and attends
then quit because it, according to her, just didn't give her what she
wanted. I'm not sure what that was but she insisted that it didn't
work or do what she had
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, The Secret [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
Not all effects of the practice of meditation are beneficial.
Shapiro
(1992) found that 62.9% of the subjects reported adverse effects
during and
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Not all effects of the practice of meditation are beneficial. Shapiro
(1992) found that 62.9% of the subjects reported adverse effects
during and after transcendental meditation and 7.4% experienced
profoundly adverse
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Feb 12, 2008, at 6:30 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote:
Vaj, I don't think there is enough research to conclude how many
suffer from adverse effects. it just hasn't had the interest of
scientists. But I do think that the
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...]
http://www.truthabouttm.org/truth/IndividualEffects/DoesTMDoAnyHarm/in
dex.cfm#Otis_New
http://tinyurl.com/33mx6p
Going from memory here, but IIRC, Omre-Johnson doesn't even note one important
thing
about
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am getting lost in the grievances thread and thought I would
start
a new topic so I can find my post later on. Judy got me thinking
about the rewards of TM when we were talking about whether a
technique
of
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity
ruthsimplicity@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
TM can't *force* independent researchers to attempt
replication of
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am getting lost in the grievances thread and thought I would
start a new topic so I can find my post later on. Judy got me
thinking about the rewards of TM when we were talking about whether
a technique of
---Such studies are interesting, but where are the real Siddhis? A
bonafide demonstration of a Siddhi will really shake things up.
In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
--- In
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
---Such studies are interesting, but where are the real Siddhis? A
bonafide demonstration of a Siddhi will really shake things up.
Yes.
Bend me one law of physics and I will be charmed.
I am the opposite of
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
TM can't *force* independent researchers to attempt
replication of the TM studies. Such researchers are
more likely to want to do a study that
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
TM can't *force* independent researchers to attempt
replication of the TM studies. Such researchers are
more likely to want to do a study that finds adverse
effects. (One of them counted boredom as an adverse
effect,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
On Feb 12, 2008, at 6:30 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote:
Vaj, I don't think there is enough research to conclude how
many suffer from adverse effects.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Feb 12, 2008, at 4:45 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote:
I am getting lost in the grievances thread and thought I would start
a new topic so I can find my post later on. Judy got me thinking
about the rewards of TM when we
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I am the opposite of Judy.
I think I'm in love.
On Feb 12, 2008, at 9:11 PM, The Secret wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Not all effects of the practice of meditation are beneficial.
Shapiro
(1992) found that 62.9% of the subjects reported adverse effects
during and after transcendental
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
On Feb 12, 2008, at 4:45 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote:
snip
Could it be that the simple TM technique just doesn't work
for a lot of people?
It
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Feb 12, 2008, at 6:30 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote:
Vaj, I don't think there is enough research to conclude how
many suffer from adverse effects. it just hasn't had the
interest of scientists. But I do think that the
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
And then there was that awful Andrew Skolnick
article in JAMA back in 1991. That's a long,
ugly story, but the piece did terrible damage
to TM's
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