Aaron Sherber wrote:
I *don't* want to jump ship; that's the problem. Finale fits the way I
work much better than Sibelius does. (Though frankly, if Sibelius
offered Speedy Entry and Scroll View, at this point I would probably
switch.)
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?"
I'm with you David. I have FinMac2004 installed (mostly to accomodate
clients who have upgraded), but most of my work is still done with the
2003 version, mainly because of the speed factor. I'm on several huge
projects, an oratorio presently, which will be followed by an opera,
and 2k4 vers
Since I started this thread I thought I would comment on Hal's
reasonable point of view. (See quotation below.)
I'm trying to call MakeMusic to a higher standard and am discussing
it with the list to hear a variety of viewpoints. First off, this
list is mild in comparison to the complaints on t
Aaron Sherber wrote:
I didn't say you shouldn't -- I said there wasn't much point. When
we're talking about bugs which undoubtedly exist, and how Coda might
respond to them, I don't think it really advances the discussion for
someone to say they haven't encountered those bugs.
No, the original t
Eric Dannewitz wrote:
Aaron Sherber wrote:
I'm not trying to be the king of Finale, and you're welcome to say
whatever you like on this topic. My point was just that when we're
discussing the bugs in Finale, the fact that you haven't encountered
those bugs doesn't change the fact that they're st
At 04:49 PM 06/25/2004, Eric Dannewitz wrote:
>Oh, and now I can
>comment this topic even though your previous email said I shouldn't???
I didn't say you shouldn't -- I said there wasn't much point. When we're
talking about bugs which undoubtedly exist, and how Coda might respond to
them, I don't
Aaron Sherber wrote:
I'm not trying to be the king of Finale, and you're welcome to say
whatever you like on this topic. My point was just that when we're
discussing the bugs in Finale, the fact that you haven't encountered
those bugs doesn't change the fact that they're still there.
But does t
At 02:09 PM 06/25/2004, Eric Dannewitz wrote:
>> If the former, then I think there's really not much point in your
>> commenting on this topic. It's like someone saying, "Oh, I don't mind
>> that fifth gear in that car grinds horribly -- I never go above third."
>
>You know, who the hell do you thi
Oh wait, accounting to Arron Sherber you probably are not using Finale
enough then. So you can't comment. HE has the final word on the topic.
I have found Finale 2004 a great tool, but then again, what do I know. I
haven't tried to recreate these "bugs", and I guess I only drive up to
Third gea
Aaron Sherber wrote:
Are you saying that you don't work with Finale heavily enough to
experience the bugs that have been reported, or are you saying that
you can't reproduce these bugs even when you try?
I'm saying that I haven't encountered these bugs while I've been using
Finale.
If the forme
ne 25, 2004 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale 2005 development cycle?
> Arron Sherber in response to Eric Dannewitz writes:
>
> >Are you saying that you don't work with Finale heavily enough to
> >experience the bugs that have been reported, or are you saying that
> >yo
Arron Sherber in response to Eric Dannewitz writes:
Are you saying that you don't work with Finale heavily enough to
experience the bugs that have been reported, or are you saying that
you can't reproduce these bugs even when you try?
If the former, then I think there's really not much point in
On Jun 24, 2004, at 3:15 PM, Randolph Peters wrote:
How do we know that Finale 2005 will be worth paying for if they
can't even fix the biggest problems in 2004?
By doing what I intend to do: Don't buy it until the reviews start
coming in from the early adopters.
Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music
At 6/25/2004 06:55 AM, Aaron Sherber wrote:
>At 11:23 PM 06/24/2004, Eric Dannewitz wrote:
> >Um, I didn't. I just don't see any of these bugs you guys are
> >complaining about..
>
>Are you saying that you don't work with Finale heavily enough to experience
>the bugs that have been reported
At 11:23 PM 06/24/2004, Eric Dannewitz wrote:
>Um, I didn't. I just don't see any of these bugs you guys are
>complaining about..
Are you saying that you don't work with Finale heavily enough to experience
the bugs that have been reported, or are you saying that you can't
reproduce these
Hi Chirs,
For what it's worth, the problem with MacFin2004 and PDFs is solved as
of Fin2004b.
- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
On 25 Jun, 2004, at 12:33 AM, Christopher BJ Smith wrote:
At 7:23 PM -0700 6/24/04, Eric Dannewitz wrote:
Darcy James Argue wrote:
Hell, the thing I'm worki
At 7:23 PM -0700 6/24/04, Eric Dannewitz wrote:
Darcy James Argue wrote:
Hell, the thing I'm working on now requires Fin2003, and after
several months of using Fin2004, it's just *staggering* how much
faster everything is in Fin2003 -- in *Classic.*
Thats not true at all. Finale runs great on m
Darcy James Argue wrote:
On 24 Jun, 2004, at 11:04 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote:
I don't remember/know what bugs you are bitten by, but I haven't had
any with Finale...
Eric, I don't know how you got access to the top-secret special
bug-free, performance-enhanced edition of Finale 2004, but
On 24 Jun, 2004, at 10:58 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote:
David W. Fenton wrote:
I don't understand why someone who is going to be collaborating with
other people would just blindly upgrade to the latest and greatest
every time it comes out. Perhaps it's testimony to the fact that Coda
has actually be
On 24 Jun, 2004, at 11:04 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote:
I don't remember/know what bugs you are bitten by, but I haven't had
any with Finale...
Eric, I don't know how you got access to the top-secret special
bug-free, performance-enhanced edition of Finale 2004, but maybe you'd
be so good as
Aaron Sherber wrote:
At 10:30 PM 06/24/2004, Eric Dannewitz wrote:
>Yeah, and name a piece of software that doesn't have bugs. And doesn't
>have bugs that have been around for a lng time?
Of the commercial software on my computer, none has bugs which are
numerous or as prominent as Finale's.
As for 2005, I'd buy it. Every upgrade seems to make the program
better. It's a business expense, and it's a very little expense I
think. For something I use everyday. $120 or whatever is well worth
it.
Seconded. If you use Finale for your livelihood a few dollars every
year is not much. How
At 10:34 PM 06/24/2004, Eric Dannewitz wrote:
>Aaron Sherber wrote:
>> You're taking a long-term view of this. I'm tired of the long-term
>> view. My short-term view is that Coda has not yet delivered the
>> functional product I paid for.
>
>Then email them and bitch about it. I complained when the
At 10:42 PM 06/24/2004, David W. Fenton wrote:
>> Okay -- then could you please share with us all your secret trick for
>> getting free bugfixes out of Coda once they've moved on to Fin2005? Or
>> are you hoping that if enough of us demonstrate our frustration by not
>> buying the upgrade, Coda wil
At 10:30 PM 06/24/2004, Eric Dannewitz wrote:
>Yeah, and name a piece of software that doesn't have bugs. And doesn't
>have bugs that have been around for a lng time?
Of the commercial software on my computer, none has bugs which are numerous
or as prominent as Finale's.
Aaron.
__
I wrote:
1) FinMac 2004 for system 9 is unusable. Period.
2) FinMac 2004 (a, b, AND c) for OS X is slow and gets slower the
longer you use it. Nudging items with the arrow key used to be the
fastest way to adjust slurs, expressions and articulations. Now you
have to wait and wait. And there are
David W. Fenton wrote:
I don't understand why someone who is going to be collaborating with
other people would just blindly upgrade to the latest and greatest
every time it comes out. Perhaps it's testimony to the fact that Coda
has actually been pretty good about not burning people with buggy
David W. Fenton wrote:
It's this blind rush into the next version en masse that baffles me.
Why would people start using it in any way other than provisionally
until it has been proven reliable?
True, but I've found Finale 2004 reliable. And people generally rush to
the next version because
On 24 Jun 2004 at 19:26, Eric Dannewitz wrote:
> David W. Fenton wrote:
>
> >>But that doesn't solve the root problem, which is that I'm still
> >>stuck with buggy software.
> >
> >Rewarding them for producing buggy software is not going to get it
> >fixed, either.
> >
> So then what do you sugge
On 24 Jun 2004 at 21:57, Aaron Sherber wrote:
> At 09:36 PM 06/24/2004, David W. Fenton wrote:
> >> Well, maybe I'm not explaining myself as well as I might. I paid
> money >> for something which was supposed to be fully functional but
> is not. In >> order to get fixes for things that were sup
EXACTLY
Harold Owen wrote:
Dear folks,
While all of you fight the product, I'm blissfully enjoying working
with MacFin2004b. I'm aware of the problems, so I avoid them; but I'm
very pleased with the good new stuff, which I enjoy using. Several
composer friends of mine got easily frustrated w
Aaron Sherber wrote:
The reason I have a hard time swallowing that is that we're not
talking about just fixing 2004 -- we're talking about bugs that have
gone unfixed for *years*. If 2003 had been perfect, I would have
forgiven the flaws in 2004. But as things are, we *keep* throwing good
mon
On 24 Jun 2004 at 20:14, Aaron Sherber wrote:
The reason I have a hard time swallowing that is that we're not
talking about just fixing 2004 -- we're talking about bugs that have
gone unfixed for *years*. If 2003 had been perfect, I would have
forgiven the flaws in 2004. But as things are, we *k
At 10:12 PM 06/24/2004, Darcy James Argue wrote:
>The problem is with the *bugs* and the *lousy performance.* I don't
>remember them mentioning either of those things in the Finale 2004
>brochure.
Hah -- that would make for great copy! "New in 2004: Auto-positioning
expressions and full OS X comp
David W. Fenton wrote:
But that doesn't solve the root problem, which is that I'm still stuck
with buggy software.
Rewarding them for producing buggy software is not going to get it
fixed, either.
So then what do you suggest people do? I can't say I've every had any
problems with bugs on
Darcy James Argue wrote:
Coda *is* in effect forcing us to buy Fin2005 by saying, "Okay, we
realize that there are a lot of things that are still deeply screwed
up about FinMac2004, but we have a budget for two maintenance releases
and that's it. So after FinMac2004c (which I believe adds EPS s
Dear folks,
While all of you fight the product, I'm blissfully enjoying working
with MacFin2004b. I'm aware of the problems, so I avoid them; but I'm
very pleased with the good new stuff, which I enjoy using. Several
composer friends of mine got easily frustrated with Finale and went
to Sibeliu
On 24 Jun, 2004, at 09:47 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 24 Jun 2004 at 21:35, Darcy James Argue wrote:
On 24 Jun, 2004, at 08:21 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
No one forces you to buy the upgrades every year.
Ahem.
David, you haven't used Fin2004 on a Mac.
I have used WinFin2004, either because I didn
At 09:47 PM 06/24/2004, David W. Fenton wrote:
>Instead of evaluating whether there was truly anything important in
>the upgrade (there clearly is not in comparison to Finale 2003),
The auto-positioning expressions easily saved me two hours of work this
year, and therefore were well worth the upgr
At 09:36 PM 06/24/2004, David W. Fenton wrote:
>> Well, maybe I'm not explaining myself as well as I might. I paid money
>> for something which was supposed to be fully functional but is not. In
>> order to get fixes for things that were supposed to be working, I now
>> have to pay more money. That
On 24 Jun 2004 at 21:35, Darcy James Argue wrote:
> On 24 Jun, 2004, at 08:21 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
>
> > No one forces you to buy the upgrades every year.
>
> Ahem.
>
> David, you haven't used Fin2004 on a Mac.
I have used WinFin2004, either because I didn't think it was worth
the money
At 08:21 PM 6/24/04 -0400, David W. Fenton wrote:
>No one forces you to buy the upgrades every year.
If you work in a collaborative situation, however, you need matching
versions. That's a real bear with Finale.
Fortunately for me, so far the folks I work with have avoided the 2004
upgrade -- som
At 09:21 PM 06/24/2004, Darcy James Argue wrote:
>> I *don't* want to jump ship; that's the problem.
>
>Neither do I, which is why I'm willing to suck it up and support Coda
>even when they deliver abominations like MacFin2004.
I agree, reluctantly, but it's still frustrating.
>To be fair, though,
On 24 Jun 2004 at 21:31, Aaron Sherber wrote:
> At 08:21 PM 06/24/2004, David W. Fenton wrote:
> >I don't understand this attitude.
>
> Well, maybe I'm not explaining myself as well as I might. I paid money
> for something which was supposed to be fully functional but is not. In
> order to get f
On 24 Jun, 2004, at 08:21 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
No one forces you to buy the upgrades every year.
Ahem.
David, you haven't used Fin2004 on a Mac.
Coda *is* in effect forcing us to buy Fin2005 by saying, "Okay, we
realize that there are a lot of things that are still deeply screwed up
about F
At 08:21 PM 06/24/2004, David W. Fenton wrote:
>I don't understand this attitude.
Well, maybe I'm not explaining myself as well as I might. I paid money for
something which was supposed to be fully functional but is not. In order to
get fixes for things that were supposed to be working, I now hav
On 24 Jun, 2004, at 08:14 PM, Aaron Sherber wrote:
I *don't* want to jump ship; that's the problem.
Neither do I, which is why I'm willing to suck it up and support Coda
even when they deliver abominations like MacFin2004.
The reason I have a hard time swallowing that is that we're not
talking a
On 24 Jun 2004 at 20:14, Aaron Sherber wrote:
> The reason I have a hard time swallowing that is that we're not
> talking about just fixing 2004 -- we're talking about bugs that have
> gone unfixed for *years*. If 2003 had been perfect, I would have
> forgiven the flaws in 2004. But as things are,
But before anyone considers jumping ship, he/she should join the
Sibelius group at Yahoogroups, and then go through the archives and get
a feeling for the frustrations they have run through with the upgrades
(longer period between major upgrades which cost money) and the
complaints about things
At 07:55 PM 06/24/2004, Darcy James Argue wrote:
> But if you want to jump
>ship, Sibelius awaits.
I *don't* want to jump ship; that's the problem. Finale fits the way I work
much better than Sibelius does. (Though frankly, if Sibelius offered Speedy
Entry and Scroll View, at this point I would p
Aaron,
I'm sure a lot of people do feel that way. But if you want to jump
ship, Sibelius awaits. If we want to see Finale survive, however,
we're going to have to accept that Coda doesn't have unlimited time and
resources to spend fixing Finale 2004. At a certain point, we just
have to let i
At 07:18 PM 06/24/2004, Darcy James Argue wrote:
> Obviously its
>frustrating that Coda isn't planning on fixing Fin2004, but at this
>point we're talking good money/time/resources after bad.
You're talking about Coda, I assume -- I think many of us feel that paying
for Fin2005 is throwing good
This is all far too late to have any impact on Fin2005, but I agree
that Finale ought to seriously consider abandoning the yearly paid
upgrades to allow for more rigorous testing and greater long-term
thinking. Their bottom line may not allow it right now -- it would
almost certainly be a shor
At 03:15 PM 06/24/2004, Randolph Peters wrote:
>The bad news is that any other fixes are to be left for Finale 2005.
>Before I go ballistic, I thought I would check with the cooler heads
>in this forum. Do we have a right to expect fixes for the 2004
>versions before coughing up any more money?
I'
Randolph Peters wrote:
I just got an email from MakeMusic that is one of those good news/bad
news kind of deals (see below). The good news is that FinMac 2004c
restores EPS export and will be available very soon to the general
public.
Woohoo!!!
The bad news is that any other fixes are to be left
Randolph Peters wrote:
I thought I would check with the cooler heads in this forum. Do we
have a right to expect fixes for the 2004 versions before coughing up
any more money?
Only if the license for 2k4 or it's updaters says you have that right,
but it appears to me from reading the license th
On Thursday, June 24, 2004, at 12:15 PM, Randolph Peters wrote:
I just got an email from MakeMusic that is one of those good news/bad
news kind of deals (see below). The good news is that FinMac 2004c
restores EPS export and will be available very soon to the general
public.
That's great...
The
I just got an email from MakeMusic that is one of those good news/bad
news kind of deals (see below). The good news is that FinMac 2004c
restores EPS export and will be available very soon to the general
public.
The bad news is that any other fixes are to be left for Finale 2005.
Before I go b
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