Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-11-13 Thread Bruno Marchal
challenge. My special greetings to all the Chinese FIS friends! - Mensaje original - De: Koichiro Matsuno cxq02...@nifty.com Fecha: Sábado, 3 de Noviembre de 2012, 6:11 am Asunto: Re: [Fis] The Information Flow A: fis@listas.unizar.es Folks, Bob U said The foundations

Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-11-13 Thread Stanley N Salthe
. My special greetings to all the Chinese FIS friends! - Mensaje original - De: Koichiro Matsuno cxq02...@nifty.com Fecha: Sábado, 3 de Noviembre de 2012, 6:11 am Asunto: Re: [Fis] The Information Flow A: fis@listas.unizar.es Folks, Bob U said The foundations

Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-11-13 Thread Bob Logan
Fecha: Sábado, 3 de Noviembre de 2012, 6:11 am Asunto: Re: [Fis] The Information Flow A: fis@listas.unizar.es Folks, Bob U said The foundations, they are trembling! I have taken it to imply that propositional calculus itself is also in a bad shape. This observation reminds me

Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-11-13 Thread Robin Faichney
Tuesday, November 13, 2012, 3:57:10 PM, Bob wrote: ... But for me the interesting phenomena where the logic of cause and effect does not hold is the case of emergence and self-organization. With an emergent system in which the properties of the system can not be derived from, reduced to or

Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-11-13 Thread Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic
Brenner Sent: den 13 november 2012 18:24 To: Bob Logan; Stanley N Salthe Cc: fis Subject: Re: [Fis] The Information Flow Dear FIS Friends and Colleagues, Sometimes I feel as if I have been whistling Dixie, to use an American expression for futility, for the last four years. I have tried to call

Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-11-12 Thread Xueshan Yan
Dear Pedro, Dear FIS Colleagues, Thanks Pedro for his assigning FIS Beijing Group to respond the current FIS topic about Information Flow, to my knowledge, there are about 20 books published about this question, but I only contacted a few of them, the following three have gave me deep

Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-11-12 Thread Robert Ulanowicz
Noviembre de 2012, 6:11 am Asunto: Re: [Fis] The Information Flow A: fis@listas.unizar.es Folks,    Bob U said The foundations, they are trembling! I have taken it to imply that propositional calculus itself is also in a bad shape. This observation reminds me of the hanging paradox first invented

Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-11-11 Thread PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ
: [Fis] The Information Flow A: fis@listas.unizar.es Folks,    Bob U said The foundations, they are trembling! I have taken it to imply that propositional calculus itself is also in a bad shape. This observation reminds me of the hanging paradox first invented by an American logician Arthur

Re: [Fis] The Information Flow - Transcending the Turing Limit

2012-11-11 Thread Bill Seaman
From Bruno: But the word mechanism cannot have the same sense before and after the discovery of the universal machine and its limitation. As my work illustrates in detail, universal machine have already two internal aspects which conflict with each other, and are close to the

Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-11-02 Thread Pedro C. Marijuan
FIS friends, It is too big a challenge to respond to Joseph's and Bill's points. While thinking about their points (in slow thought mode) I will just make a couple of complementary remarks. First, following Gould's arguments on replaying life's tape, what would happen if we could replay the

Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-11-02 Thread Robert Ulanowicz
Quoting Pedro C. Marijuan pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es: First, following Gould's arguments on replaying life's tape, what would happen if we could replay the sciences' tape? Would we obtain a similar map of the sciences? Would we finally obtain the same ways of thinking visions of the world? I

Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-11-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Nov 2012, at 14:16, Pedro C. Marijuan wrote: FIS friends, It is too big a challenge to respond to Joseph's and Bill's points. While thinking about their points (in slow thought mode) I will just make a couple of complementary remarks. First, following Gould's arguments on replaying

Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-11-02 Thread Koichiro Matsuno
Folks, Bob U said The foundations, they are trembling! I have taken it to imply that propositional calculus itself is also in a bad shape. This observation reminds me of the hanging paradox first invented by an American logician Arthur Prior more than 60 years ago. It goes like this: On

Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-10-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 26 Oct 2012, at 22:32, PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ wrote: Dear FISers, Is it interesting the discussion on wether those informational entities contain realizations of the Aristotelian scheme of causality or not? The cell, in my view, conspicuously fails --it would be too

Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-10-27 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Pedro -- The Aristotelian causal categories are conceptual tools, providing language for distinguishing aspects of a scene. Without them we are liable to miss certain aspects of nature. For example, Francis Bacon eliminated final cause from science discourse, explicitly stating that finality can

Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-10-27 Thread Bill Seaman
I really respect all involved … that said- Can we leave the past for a moment and just try to ask the 10 most important questions of today. What are they! Jesus - this feel like a historical pissing match and is not being really constructive. b On Oct 27, 2012, at 11:34 AM, Bruno Marchal

Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-10-26 Thread PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ
Dear FISers, Is it interesting the discussion on wether those informational entities contain realizations of the Aristotelian scheme of causality or not? The cell, in my view, conspicuously fails --it would be too artifactual an scheme. Some parts of the sensory paths of advanced nervous

Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-10-25 Thread Bill Seaman
Interesting Software Best Bill http://www.kurzweilai.net/a-biology-friendly-robot-programming-language?utm_source=KurzweilAI+Daily+Newsletterutm_campaign=fb29857305-UA-946742-1utm_medium=email http://parpar.jbei.org ___ fis mailing list

Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-10-21 Thread PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ
Dear FISers, Continuing with the comments on the how versus the what, it is an important topic in mammalian (vertebrate) nervous systems. They are subtended by mostly separate neural tracts (though partially interconnected), it is the dorsal stream, specialized in the how where, and the

Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-10-21 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Pedro -- it is of interest to me that On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 3:38 PM, PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es wrote: Dear FISers, Continuing with the comments on the how versus the what, it is an important topic in mammalian (vertebrate) nervous systems. They are

Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-10-16 Thread John Collier
Good point, Stan. I think that it can be used to create a notion of 'knowing that', but it will require at least another level. I review some ways to do this in Explaining Biological Functionality: Is Control Theory Enough? South African Journal of Philosophy. 2011, 30(4): 53-62. The main

Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-10-16 Thread Bill Seaman
How about Knowing Through… How can we embody a neural network/learning system through multi-modal sensing? b Bill Seaman Professor, Department of Art, Art History Visual Studies DUKE UNIVERSITY 114 b East Duke Building Box

Re: [Fis] The Information Flow (From Bob Ulanowicz)

2012-10-16 Thread Pedro C. Marijuan
(From Bob Ulanowicz) * Dear Pedro, I am not familiar with either model. I am made uneasy, however, by the deterministic nature of the model descriptions. My concern is that networks in general are metaphors for the amalgamation of

[Fis] The Information Flow

2012-10-15 Thread Pedro C. Marijuan
Dear FIS Colleagues, Thanks to Zhao Chuan for the Computer Poem/Song. It is a soft way to retake our discussions. These weeks there have been a couple of important achievements in the bio-information field. On the one side, the first 'complete' model of a prokaryotic cell (A Whole-Cell