Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

Martin Spott wrote: > Curtis Olson wrote: >> On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 4:49 PM, Martin Spott wrote some stuff about the web >> page: > >> Pete and I agreed (I think) that we probably don't want to ultimately do the >> official flightgear web site as a google apps engine page. That locks us >> into

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

Curtis Olson wrote: > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 4:49 PM, Martin Spott wrote some stuff about the web > page: > Pete and I agreed (I think) that we probably don't want to ultimately do the > official flightgear web site as a google apps engine page. That locks us > into a closed source, proprietary

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

> > I spent some time using Pete's menu css and trying to build a column > of menus down the left side of the screen. I have an initial version. > Some of that I like, but I'm just not happy with how it's coming > together yet. > > Curt. Your going to be running around in circles until its g

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

Patrice Poly > > I have been reading the mail archive and forums about this story, then > went on the FPS website and read their disclaimer. > > >From what I saw, and given that my understanding of GPL and copyrights > might be wrong, here are my thoughts : > > I think what this person(s) do he

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

Curt, I can help out organization wise and can provide some really good feedback on the site. Let me know. -- Kyle On Mar 17, 2010, at 6:56 PM, Curtis Olson wrote: > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 4:49 PM, Martin Spott wrote some stuff about the web > page: > > A couple brief comments on the web si

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 4:49 PM, Martin Spott wrote some stuff about the web page: A couple brief comments on the web site. Pete and I agreed (I think) that we probably don't want to ultimately do the official flightgear web site as a google apps engine page. That locks us into a closed source,

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

Curtis Olson wrote: > I wish to second this! FlightGear has never really gone on a marketing > offensive. Marketing takes a lot of time and effort, so it's hard for > people who are developing code or aircraft or working on other aspects of > the project to find a lot of additional time to do ma

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

First, a parable: The local supermarket sells shiitake mushrooms for $5.00 per ounce. About a mile down the road there is an ethnic market that sells the same kind of mushrooms for $5.00 per *pound*. You might have been told in high school that this kind of thing can never happ

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

I have been reading the mail archive and forums about this story, then went on the FPS website and read their disclaimer. >From what I saw, and given that my understanding of GPL and copyrights might be wrong, here are my thoughts : I think what this person(s) do here is *almost* legal. They are

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 9:00 AM, Peter Brown wrote: > While I truly hope this group, or multiple groups can get together and > bring him to task for his wrongs, publication of "FlightGear.org as a > BETTER simulator, which also happens to be FREE, and by the way, that other > simulator is just a c

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

As much as I'd hope what you say would be true, realistically there is not much of a downside for this guy. Everyday people make purchases without knowing all the facts, and for more money buying online than locally. (Ebay can be a good example) From his side of it, unless someone or group is

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

I think this is exactly true. And what happens to this guy when more and more people start finding out that they have paid money for something they could have gotten for free? Jon From: Curtis Olson [mailto:curtol...@gmail.com] The guy is building his business on a charade ... and th

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

Am Mittwoch, den 17.03.2010, 07:57 +0100 schrieb Tim Moore: > > I'm not worried about introducing our own violations of the GPL by > putting planes under a second license. I strongly believe that > modelers should use whatever license they want. There may be issues > with calling GPL'ed Nasal co

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

Tim Moore wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 1:21 AM, Rob Oates >Our models and our code should be seen as two separate entities, >>that is all that I'm suggesting. > > I'm having trouble seeing the difference between "highly detailed models > and artwork" and significant code contributi

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 1:21 AM, Rob Oates wrote: > Hmm ... the planes in Flightgear are just models, they don't require > simgear and terragear to function. Furthermore I would find it extremely > bizarre for an airplane model to be a dependency in order for Flightgear to > work. > > I'm not wor

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim

I've /probably/ done the most extensive amount of research into this at the moment, some key points: 1) If we want or need legal representation, please visit http://www.softwarefreedom.org/ I have already contacted them, so please don't send them a bunch of emails about FlightProSim. 2) Fligh

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

Well you should know how to pick your fights ... you don't have to chase every single violator, just pressure the one or two who are giving you the hardest time (like this Pro-sim guy). At least by changing the license on some of the planes and art work (which are not dependent on anything already

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

Good point, didn't account for that. On Mar 16, 2010, at 8:05 PM, Adam Dershowitz wrote: > That only helps make it clear if someone is violating a copyright. It > doesn't help enforce it. If the license is changed, and then someone were to > go and sell FG with those aircraft who would hire th

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

That only helps make it clear if someone is violating a copyright. It doesn't help enforce it. If the license is changed, and then someone were to go and sell FG with those aircraft who would hire the lawyer bring the copyright violation law suit? --Adam On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:26 PM, kyle k

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

Hmm ... the planes in Flightgear are just models, they don't require simgear and terragear to function. Furthermore I would find it extremely bizarre for an airplane model to be a dependency in order for Flightgear to work. I think it's reasonable to say there should be a clear separation between

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

Last I heard, The GPL license was applied to all the planes hosted on the FG website. I do believe however, that if we do take our own planes and put them in a restrictive CC license and then give permission for FG and only FG to use them, then we may be able to do some good. On Mar 16, 2010, at

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 12:18 AM, Rob Oates wrote: > Hmm, why not change the license on some of the newer planes to a more > restrictive creative commons license? This would give you more control over > how these are used. For instance, you could apply the license so the planes > could only be us

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

Hmm, why not change the license on some of the newer planes to a more restrictive creative commons license? This would give you more control over how these are used. For instance, you could apply the license so the planes could only be use for non-commercial/free projects, and if a commercial proje

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

From: Frederic Bouvier Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 3:21 PM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim! Users of FlightProSim have been scammed and they should not endure our anger. But I am not happy to do the FPS support for

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

On 16 Mar 2010, at 15:01, Curtis Olson wrote: > There are a lot of different angles here, but I think whatever we do, we > can't take out our frustrations on the end users that flightsimpro manages to > sucker into buying a copy of FlightGear without telling them what it actually > is. > > Th

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

Hello, > However, if the flightsimpro guy is trying to > use trickery ... like logging onto the forum with multiple > identities (there were two users on the forum from his same > IP address in this most recent case) then this could just > degenerate into chaos. > ... >reality has a way of catch

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

- "Curtis Olson" a écrit : >If this guy points his users at our forum, that also might be a benefit to us. > If flightsimpro users start showing up and asking questions, we could again > be patient and welcoming, but explain the situation to them. That way at > least for the future, they

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 7:01 PM, syd adams wrote: > I have to agree that much can't be done . I hate to see it removed from the > forum , flame war or not , since keeping as much information out there as > possible might keep a few some being conned . > I was thinking the other day that if menti

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

I have to agree that much can't be done . I hate to see it removed from the forum , flame war or not , since keeping as much information out there as possible might keep a few some being conned . Cheers -- Download Intel®

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

Just sent an email to New Zealand open Source and got this reply, pete Hello Peter, Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Please recognise that the GPL does not in any way preclude people from packaging up and selling a software application *so long as they comply with the terms of the GPL

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

That's un-believable, but he's done his research, the license allows you to sell it =/ He obviously did his research and found a loophole. It's a shame that someone would go the great lengths to actually do something as immoral as this. On Mar 15, 2010, at 4:13 PM, Heiko Schulz wrote: > Btw:

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

Btw: Blender has more or less the same problem- and it seems from the design of the webpage, that is the same company. Blender were able to fight against successfully last year. But this year they are back. http://www.blendernation.com/3dmagix-re-branding-and-selling-the-free-software-blender/

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

This kind of thing happens sometimes -- not much we can do unless we want to spend tens of thousands of $$ going to court, so there's no point getting stressed. I did go to Google Sidewiki and leave a comment on the page, so that anyone using the Google toolbar or a sidewiki add-on in their browse

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

Has anyone tried putting their own watermarks on their models and liveries? I usually put my watermark on the engine, then again, we could put a flightgear watermark on the inside of a model (image mapping the inside of a model so he can't see it) Also, has anyone checked to see if he's a part o

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

Curtis Olson wrote: > On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Frederic Bouvier > wrote: > > > What will happen if this guy creates a flightgear.flightprosim.com > page ? > > > We could only hope ... !!! > > Can we get in troubl

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

> wrote: > > > > > What will happen if this guy creates a flightgear.flightprosim.com > page ? > We could only hope ... !!! > > > Can we get in trouble ourselves for using his > name? > Curt. -- Yes! And I don't like this idea. It won't help but starts a war, which we maybe can't win.

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:04:35 +0100 (CET), Frederic wrote in message <29285847.3999171268669075452.javamail.r...@spooler4-g27.priv.proxad.net>: > > - "Heiko Schulz" a écrit : > > > > Heiko Schulz wrote: > > > > Hey folks, > > > > > > > > you won't belive that- but Flight Pro Sim releases a

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Frederic Bouvier wrote: > > What will happen if this guy creates a flightgear.flightprosim.com page ? We could only hope ... !!! Can we get in trouble ourselves for using his name? Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

I have noticed that one of the screens on their website uses my alternative summer textures which were partially made using Google Earth images hence they are not GNU-GPL (see my website http://flightgear.xf.cz ). I do not know how many problems I could have with Google corporation doing this f

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

- "Martin Spott" a écrit : > Frederic Bouvier wrote: > > > I think the whole thread should be removed by the moderator. I see > no > > point making him advertisement and letting the flames grow up. > > Oh yes, I'm supportive of this procedure, also of installing a > 'flightprosim.flightgear

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

Frederic Bouvier wrote: > I think the whole thread should be removed by the moderator. I see no > point making him advertisement and letting the flames grow up. Oh yes, I'm supportive of this procedure, also of installing a 'flightprosim.flightgear.org' page - which could get re-directed to the r

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:50:34 +0100, Erik wrote in message <4b9e655a.9050...@ehofman.com>: > Heiko Schulz wrote: > > That won't stop the fact that he already makes money with our work. > > And yes, I seriously believe that he is able to bring our project > > in danger. > > Making money is one th

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

Hi, > Fred wrote: > I think the whole thread should be removed by the moderator. I see no point > making > him advertisement and letting the flames grow up. Has been done. Reason: we do not tolerate spam at our forums. No matter if that is some weird non-related software or a paid version o

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

Heiko Schulz wrote: > That won't stop the fact that he already makes money with our work. > And yes, I seriously believe that he is able to bring our project in danger. Making money is one thing; it's allowed by the GPL. Problem here seems that, while our project tries to do everything to keep i

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

Heiko Schulz wrote: >> Heiko Schulz wrote: >>> Hey folks, >>> >>> you won't belive that- but Flight Pro Sim releases a >> new version! Isn't it surprising? >>> Did you know that many of the technologies used in >> FlightGear are the same within FlightProSim? >>> And that this has many improved grap

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

encourage this kind of thing. -- From: "Pete Morgan" Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 4:11 PM To: "FlightGear developers discussions" Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim! > One idea which I've used be

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

> > I did a bit of poking around FPS.com web site and found a > download > link on the disclaimer page (link: > http://www.flightprosim.com/disclaimer/). > The link to the download > file sourcess.zip contains a snapshot of the wiki from > October last > year along with some interesting stuff. >

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 2:40 AM, Heiko Schulz wrote: > >> Heiko Schulz wrote: >> > Hey folks, >> > >> > you won't belive that- but Flight Pro Sim releases a >> new version! Isn't it surprising? >> > >> > Did you know that many of the technologies used in >> FlightGear are the same within FlightPro

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

One idea which I've used before, would be to create the flightprosim.flightgear.org subdomain. then link sites (eg wiki, 3rd party) to the subdomain. This gets it well up in the rankings and is easy to implement. When end up on that domain is a nice notice explaining what flightprosim. Also th

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

- "Heiko Schulz" a écrit : > > Heiko Schulz wrote: > > > Hey folks, > > > > > > you won't belive that- but Flight Pro Sim releases a > > new version! Isn't it surprising? > > > > > > Did you know that many of the technologies used in > > FlightGear are the same within FlightProSim? > > > >

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

> Heiko Schulz wrote: > > Hey folks, > > > > you won't belive that- but Flight Pro Sim releases a > new version! Isn't it surprising? > > > > Did you know that many of the technologies used in > FlightGear are the same within FlightProSim? > > > > And that this has many improved graphics as wel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

Heiko Schulz wrote: > Hey folks, > > you won't belive that- but Flight Pro Sim releases a new version! Isn't it > surprising? > > Did you know that many of the technologies used in FlightGear are the same > within FlightProSim? > > And that this has many improved graphics as well as 3D clouds