In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Darryl Okahata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> There's the problem. While I agree with you about persistent,
> annoying, and utterly clueless newbies, I don't agree with the apparent
> sentiment (with which you may or may not agree) where all newbies (and
> n
On Wed, Oct 06, 1999 at 06:03:27AM -0700, a little birdie told me
that Don Lewis remarked
>
> I think it would lower the frustration level all around if we had some
> volunteer question answerers to take some of the load off the developers.
Indeed.
Wait; I just had a brainstorm!
We could even ma
On Oct 4, 12:52am, Darryl Okahata wrote:
} Subject: Re: Developer assessment (was Re: A bike shed ...)
} 1. Instant escalation. Example: supplicant A asks question in FreeBSD
}group. Some FreeBSD contributor says, "RTFM", and does not give any
}useful information whatsoever
Darryl Okahata wrote:
>
> > That's actually a good idea. Tell you what, you read the previous
> > threads and prepare a good FAQ entry in docbook, send me the patches
> > and I'll commit it.
>
> I'll take you up on this, if you can guarantee that it'll show up
> on the FreeBSD web page FAQ
"Daniel C. Sobral" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Why the hell does the clueless newbie hordes expects any answer when
> posting a message to a list without reading the list charter and
> without a single clue of how the list works is beyond me.
No one's disputing this. In fact, I agree with
Darryl Okahata wrote:
>
> > There are things one can do to improve their chances of seeing the
> > message answered. For example:
>
> ... excellent advice, which everyone should follow.
>
> ... however, how the H*LL are the clueless newbie hordes supposed
> to know or learn this? As
Darryl Okahata wrote:
>
> The "old-fashioned way"? While the "look before you leap"
> philosophy, which is excellent advice, has been around Usenet since time
> immemorial, I've yet to meet or hear about anyone that's actually done
> it (when they were a newbie, that is), although people he
Wes Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Darryl Okahata wrote:
> >
> > ... however, how the H*LL are the clueless newbie hordes supposed
> > to know or learn this? As much as we'd like them to be, they're not
> > exactly born with this knowledge, and I somehow doubt there's an "XXX
> > for
On Mon, Oct 04, 1999 at 09:44:00PM -0600, Wes Peters wrote:
>
> [common courtesy]
>
> This is and has been common courtesy on Usenet newsgroups and Usenet,
> later Internet mailing lists, since I've had Usenet access - about 1985.
> If you don't know that, you don't even belong on the net, let a
Darryl Okahata wrote:
>
> ... however, how the H*LL are the clueless newbie hordes supposed
> to know or learn this? As much as we'd like them to be, they're not
> exactly born with this knowledge, and I somehow doubt there's an "XXX
> for Dummies" book that covers this.
The old-fashioned
"Daniel C. Sobral" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It's very simple: if I (emphasis on "I") think answering your
> message is worth the time in which I could read ten, twenty other
> messages, I'll do so. The same applies to each other person on the
> list, developer or not.
Very true.
> Ther
On Mon, 4 Oct 1999, Wes Peters wrote:
> > > > This is absolutely correct and in many cases the most inefficient way to go.
> > >
> > > Crap. It's the most _efficient_ way in terms of return on effort
> > > invested.
>
> Wayne, you seem to be forgetting that you're working with volunteers.
Come
Wayne Cuddy and Mike Smith crossed swords thusly:
Wayne:
> Mike:
> > Wayne:
> > > Mike:
> > > > So, regardless of whether you've asked a question or not, you need to
> > > > understand that the onus rests solely on yourself to pursue the answer.
> > > > They're all there in the code, where everyo
I really, really need not get into this, but I just can't help
myself... sigh...
Wayne Cuddy wrote:
>
> > Are you willing to accept that you may have been judged "not worth the
> > effort" on the content of your questions, or are we going to have
> > another flamewar about whether we should be o
[This is only informative for others willing to participate, after this
it should probably no longer hit -hackers since it's getting off topic]
On [19991004 14:02], Michael Kennett ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>Hi Jeoren,
Almost ;)
s/eor/ero
>> I am already going to do this kind of stuff for the
Hi Jeoren,
> I am already going to do this kind of stuff for the Dutch (Free)BSD User
> Group, so I imagine I could as well start work on this one as well.
>
> I even have a list of interesting FAQs on my homepage which I really
> need to expand.
>
> Joy! More work ;)
>
> Feel free to e-mail m
On [19991004 13:42], Michael Kennett ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>This 'how-to-help-yourself' document wouldn't have to be long. But it
>could contain references to the FreeBSD handbook, the FAQ, and other
>stuff that people put together (eg. Gregs pages on vinum, Brian Somers
>pages on ppp, + man
On a slight tangent, I've just gone back and reread Greg Lehey's
'How to get best results from FreeBSD-questions'. It's a great document,
covering a lot of the etiquette for the freebsd-questions mailing list.
It can be found at:
http://www.lemis.com/questions.html
However, the document does
Let me give you some advice on FreeBSD list etiquette.
You quoted *_114_* lines just to add FIVE?? Are you so busy you can't
figure out how to delete lines in your editor? It is replies like this
that have run many of the knowledgeable people from this list.
To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMA
[ snip good advice ]
Now this is very good advice.
I am certainly going to keep Darryl's comments somewhere for easy
reference in order to make sure I at least never forget where I came
from and how to treat others.
I think everybody should heed this advice.
--
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven/
> There is no sense in wasting the time of one informed developer to help
> one uninformed developer; this is a bad tradeoff unless the uninformed
> developer is showing signs of promise. The only way to assess this is
> to look at the questions they ask and the context they're asking them
> f
On Sun, 3 Oct 1999, Mike Smith wrote:
> Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 18:08:39 -0700
> From: Mike Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Developer assessment (was Re: A bike shed ...)
>
> > > > As a newbie to kernel programming, who migh
On Sun, 3 Oct 1999, Mike Smith wrote:
> Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 11:33:24 -0700
> From: Mike Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: FreeBSD Hackers List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Developer assessment (was Re: A bike shed ...)
>
> > As
> As a newbie to kernel programming, who might need a little help and guidance,
> the above is certainly true. I can attest to the fact that I have a certain
> reluctance to post some of my questions to this list(hackers). I have posted
> some in the past, many of which have gone unanswered, to
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