Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

> Rodney W. Grimes wrote this message on Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 05:19 -0700: > > And I have read case law that boiled down to the presents vs absence > > of a comma in an agreement that had results far beyond "minor". > > For those currious about this case: > https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/201

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 06:54:01AM -0700, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 05:19:33AM -0700, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > And I have read case law that boiled down to the presents vs absence > > > of a comma > > > > If we are now going to evaluate all proposed changes to FreeBS

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

Rodney W. Grimes wrote this message on Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 05:19 -0700: > And I have read case law that boiled down to the presents vs absence > of a comma in an agreement that had results far beyond "minor". For those currious about this case: https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2017/03/16/lack

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 11:38:46AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > ... > I'd also suggest that rl stands in stark contrast to the cs, wb, sn, smc, > sf, tl, tx and vr drivers, which nobody has mentioned in this thread, and > which I doubt are in use in any FreeBSD system of any age today. Warner, I ha

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

> On 24 Oct 2018, at 14:39, Warner Losh wrote: > > [stuff trimmed] > >> >> The FCP process itself is unclear on this point, >> >> I think this should be clarified. >> >> >> >> It is much more clear on post approval: >> >>Changes after acceptance >> >> >> >>FCPs may need revisi

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

> "Rodney W. Grimes" wrote: > > We could add that once the document is submitted to core > > any change to it between submitting and vote by core requires > > core to be involved, even if it is simply an ack of a change > > has been made to what was submitted. > > Yes ! And to expand on that furt

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 05:19:33AM -0700, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > And I have read case law that boiled down to the presents vs absence > of a comma If we are now going to evaluate all proposed changes to FreeBSD on the same rigid principles as the US legal system, I'm done. mcl

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 05:19:33AM -0700, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > And I have read case law that boiled down to the presents vs absence > > of a comma > > If we are now going to evaluate all proposed changes to FreeBSD on the > same rigid principles as the US legal system, I'm done. I do not

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 5:02 AM Bob Bishop wrote: > > > On 24 Oct 2018, at 01:23, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 6:02 PM Rodney W. Grimes < > > freebsd-...@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > > > >> -- Start of PGP signed section. > >>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 04:26:45PM -0700,

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

> On 24 Oct 2018, at 01:23, Warner Losh wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 6:02 PM Rodney W. Grimes < > freebsd-...@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > >> -- Start of PGP signed section. >>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 04:26:45PM -0700, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 5:07 PM Rod

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 6:19 AM Rodney W. Grimes < freebsd-...@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > > > On 24 Oct 2018, at 01:23, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 6:02 PM Rodney W. Grimes < > > > freebsd-...@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > > > > > >> -- Start of PGP signed sect

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

"Rodney W. Grimes" wrote: > We could add that once the document is submitted to core > any change to it between submitting and vote by core requires > core to be involved, even if it is simply an ack of a change > has been made to what was submitted. Yes ! Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, Comput

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

I suggest posters to this lively thread could strip inherited personal CC addresses . Then ~/.procmailrc that sorts list mail away from real personal ~/mail/Inbox will protect xbiff from beeping so much :-) Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, Computer Consultant, Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, M

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

... deleted ... ... cc list trimmed, getting too many recepient gripes from mailman ... > > > > diff --git a/fcp-.md b/fcp-.md > > > > index b4fe0f3..c8cc6f7 100644 > > > > --- a/fcp-.md > > > > +++ b/fcp-.md > > > > @@ -144,7 +144,10 @@ When the discussion of a change has come to

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

> > On 24 Oct 2018, at 01:23, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 6:02 PM Rodney W. Grimes < > > freebsd-...@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > > > >> -- Start of PGP signed section. > >>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 04:26:45PM -0700, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 6:02 PM Rodney W. Grimes < > freebsd-...@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: ... deleted un relavent text ... > > > > > > Brooks, > > > > > > Is there a public revised version of FCP-0101 that > > reflects the > > > > > > feedback which is what core is voting on? > > >

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 6:02 PM Rodney W. Grimes < freebsd-...@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > -- Start of PGP signed section. > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 04:26:45PM -0700, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 5:07 PM Rodney W. Grimes < > > > > freebsd-...@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.ne

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 04:26:45PM -0700, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 5:07 PM Rodney W. Grimes < > > freebsd-...@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 11:33:35PM +0200, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > > > > > I'd also suggest that rl stands in stark

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 5:26 PM Rodney W. Grimes < freebsd-...@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 5:07 PM Rodney W. Grimes < > > freebsd-...@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 11:33:35PM +0200, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > > > > > I'd also sug

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

-- Start of PGP signed section. > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 04:26:45PM -0700, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 5:07 PM Rodney W. Grimes < > > > freebsd-...@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 11:33:35PM +0200, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > > > >

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 5:07 PM Rodney W. Grimes < > freebsd-...@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > > > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 11:33:35PM +0200, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > > > > I'd also suggest that rl stands in stark contrast to the cs, wb, sn, > > smc, > > > > > sf, tl, tx and vr drivers, w

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 3:57 PM Julian H. Stacey wrote: > Doug Hardie wrote: > > I have a number of production servers that only have bge and I don't see > that listed in either category. None of them are running FreeBSD 12 yet as > it has not been released. Also there are some with rl. Those

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 04:06:48PM -0700, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 11:33:35PM +0200, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > > > I'd also suggest that rl stands in stark contrast to the cs, wb, sn, > > > > smc, > > > > sf, tl, tx and vr drivers, which nobody has mentioned in this th

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 11:33:35PM +0200, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > > I'd also suggest that rl stands in stark contrast to the cs, wb, sn, smc, > > > sf, tl, tx and vr drivers, which nobody has mentioned in this thread, and > > > which I doubt are in use in any FreeBSD system of any age today.

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 5:07 PM Rodney W. Grimes < freebsd-...@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 11:33:35PM +0200, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > > > I'd also suggest that rl stands in stark contrast to the cs, wb, sn, > smc, > > > > sf, tl, tx and vr drivers, which nobody ha

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

Hi, Reference: > From: Brooks Davis > Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 22:10:37 + Brooks Davis wrote: > > --lrZ03NoBR/3+SXJZ > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Disposition: inline > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 11:33:35PM

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 11:33:35PM +0200, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > I'd also suggest that rl stands in stark contrast to the cs, wb, sn, smc, > > sf, tl, tx and vr drivers, which nobody has mentioned in this thread, and > > which I doubt are in use in any FreeBSD system of any age today. > > vr

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

Doug Hardie wrote: > I have a number of production servers that only have bge and I don't see that > listed in either category. None of them are running FreeBSD 12 yet as it has > not been released. Also there are some with rl. Those are add-on boards so > they could be changed, but would req

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

> I'd also suggest that rl stands in stark contrast to the cs, wb, sn, smc, > sf, tl, tx and vr drivers, which nobody has mentioned in this thread, and > which I doubt are in use in any FreeBSD system of any age today. vr is used by my TV driver laptop: http://www.berklix.com/~jhs/hardware/laptops

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 12:27:48 -0600 Warner Losh wrote: > On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 11:52 AM Matthieu Volat wrote: > > > Would it be possible to set a wiki page/section in 12 that display the > > current status of removal of those devices? That might be easier for people > > to look at their hardwa

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 11:52 AM Matthieu Volat wrote: > Would it be possible to set a wiki page/section in 12 that display the > current status of removal of those devices? That might be easier for people > to look at their hardware actual state rather than try to trace every > answer to this th

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 21:05:16 + Brooks Davis wrote: > >>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< > > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 > and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

04.10.2018 0:05, Brooks Davis пишет: Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining and improvin

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

Warner Losh wrote this message on Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 09:53 -0600: > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 9:46 AM Cy Schubert > wrote: > > > I'm willing to help out with rl(4) as I have one here. Others, not > > scheduled for removal, that I can help one way or another are are NICs, > > including wireless, cu

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Mon, Oct 8, 2018 at 11:03 AM Brooks Davis wrote: > On Sun, Oct 07, 2018 at 11:25:48AM +0200, Andrea Venturoli wrote: > > On 10/4/18 3:07 PM, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > At the root of this problem is the community's long resistance to > having > > > data reported back to the project data abou

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Sun, Oct 07, 2018 at 11:25:48AM +0200, Andrea Venturoli wrote: > On 10/4/18 3:07 PM, Warner Losh wrote: > > > At the root of this problem is the community's long resistance to having > > data reported back to the project data about the machines running FreeBSD. > > Absent any real and significa

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On 10/4/18 3:07 PM, Warner Losh wrote: At the root of this problem is the community's long resistance to having data reported back to the project data about the machines running FreeBSD. Absent any real and significant data, the only way to know if things are unused is to ask. We cannot have the

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

Brooks Davis wrote: > On Fri, Oct 05, 2018 at 04:18:22PM +0100, Jamie Landeg-Jones wrote: > > Remember, it's not simply deprecating cards less than 1Gig. > > > > I have a card that is 10/100 only, but works fine with the gigabit alc > > driver: > > > > alc0: port 0x2000-0x207f mem > > 0xe050

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Fri, Oct 05, 2018 at 04:18:22PM +0100, Jamie Landeg-Jones wrote: > Remember, it's not simply deprecating cards less than 1Gig. > > I have a card that is 10/100 only, but works fine with the gigabit alc driver: > > alc0: port 0x2000-0x207f mem > 0xe050-0xe053 irq 16 at device 0.0 on p

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

Thanks for the reply warner, Warner Losh wrote: > On Fri, Oct 5, 2018 at 8:46 AM Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > > > >>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< > > > > > > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > > > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet dr

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Fri, Oct 5, 2018 at 9:05 AM Andrew Turner wrote: > > > On 3 Oct 2018, at 22:05, Brooks Davis wrote: > > > Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< > > > > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

> On 5 Oct 2018, at 16:19, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > On Fri, Oct 5, 2018 at 9:05 AM Andrew Turner > wrote: > > > On 3 Oct 2018, at 22:05, Brooks Davis > > wrote: > > > Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< > > > > FCP-0101

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

Remember, it's not simply deprecating cards less than 1Gig. I have a card that is 10/100 only, but works fine with the gigabit alc driver: alc0: port 0x2000-0x207f mem 0xe050-0xe053 irq 16 at device 0.0 on pci1 cheers, jamie ___ freebsd-net@f

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Fri, Oct 5, 2018 at 8:46 AM Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > >>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< > > > > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 > > and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to redu

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

> On 3 Oct 2018, at 22:05, Brooks Davis wrote: > Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< > > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 > and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden o

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

> >>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< > > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 > and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining and > improving the network stack. W

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 12:55 PM Doug Hardie wrote: > > I have a number of production servers that only have bge and I don't see that > listed in either category. None of them are running FreeBSD 12 yet as it has > not been released. Also there are some with rl. Those are add-on boards so > t

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On 2018-Oct-04 08:44:11 +, Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: >Looking at the commits they require near zero maintenance. What exactly >is the burden here? As various others have stated, this isn't true. All the code in FreeBSD has an ongoing maintenance cost and is an impediment to adding new feature

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

I have a number of production servers that only have bge and I don't see that listed in either category. None of them are running FreeBSD 12 yet as it has not been released. Also there are some with rl. Those are add-on boards so they could be changed, but would require extensive effort as th

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On 2018-Oct-04 14:38:51 +0200, Andrea Venturoli via freebsd-net wrote: >Older models, up to the first RPi3 still have a 100Mb/s NIC. >I just happen to have an RPi3 and I'd really love to convert it to >FreeBSD once 12.x is stable enough. All the RPi variants have Ethernet to USB adapters. They

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

In message <11826345-1b82-46cb-894c-e567725f8...@bway.net>, Charles Sprickman v ia freebsd-fcp writes: > > > > On Oct 4, 2018, at 11:52 AM, Cy Schubert wrote: > > > > I have rl, fxp, xl, dc, bge (which I have an uncommitted patch for), nfe, a > nd sk. Not all are scheduled for removal but this

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 12:23:17PM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 12:18 PM Eugene Grosbein wrote: > > > 05.10.2018 0:38, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > I'd also suggest that rl stands in stark contrast to the cs, wb, sn, smc, > > > sf, tl, tx and vr drivers, which nobody has men

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

>FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) Can I open a FCP to rename FCP to FBS (for FreeBSD BikeShed) ? Guys... most if not all of these emails could have been sent to directly Brooks without Cc'ing four mailing lists. Then Brooks could revise his tallies and

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

Alexey Dokuchaev > Cc: FreeBSD Net; freebsd-...@freebsd.org; Brooks Davis; FreeBSD-STABLE > Mailing List; freebsd-a...@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers > > Warner Losh wrote: > [lots of stuff snipped] >> That's why that o

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

04.10.2018 21:26, Mark Linimon wrote: > You can buy used core i5 laptops for around $20 if you shop around. And plus even more for overseas delivery. ___ freebsd-net@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-net To unsu

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 11:58 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 11:47 AM Ian Lepore wrote: > > > > > On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 11:38 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 11:26 AM Ian Lepore > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 1

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 12:18 PM Eugene Grosbein wrote: > 05.10.2018 0:38, Warner Losh wrote: > > > I'd also suggest that rl stands in stark contrast to the cs, wb, sn, smc, > > sf, tl, tx and vr drivers, which nobody has mentioned in this thread, and > > which I doubt are in use in any FreeBSD sy

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

04.10.2018 23:22, Brooks Davis wrote: > In an effort to save some email, we will be moving rl(4) to the list of > drivers to STAY as it has proved itself to be popular. A few others > appear to be well on their way so keep the reports coming. And ste(4) please, as these are hardly replaceable tw

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

05.10.2018 0:38, Warner Losh wrote: > I'd also suggest that rl stands in stark contrast to the cs, wb, sn, smc, > sf, tl, tx and vr drivers, which nobody has mentioned in this thread, and > which I doubt are in use in any FreeBSD system of any age today. vr(4) mentioned in the STAY list or else I

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 11:38 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 11:26 AM Ian Lepore wrote: > > > > > On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 10:21 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 10:15 AM Michelle Sullivan > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tech-lists wrote

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 11:47 AM Ian Lepore wrote: > On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 11:38 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 11:26 AM Ian Lepore wrote: > > > > > > > > On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 10:21 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 10:15 AM Michelle Sullivan

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 10:21 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 10:15 AM Michelle Sullivan > wrote: > > > > > tech-lists wrote: > > > > > > > > > I'm astonished you're considering removing rl given how common it is. > > > > > I'll second that comment - though no disrespect to B

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 11:26 AM Ian Lepore wrote: > On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 10:21 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 10:15 AM Michelle Sullivan > > wrote: > > > > > > > > tech-lists wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm astonished you're considering removing rl given how common it i

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 11:21:03AM -0500, Kevin Day wrote: > > > > On Oct 4, 2018, at 7:58 AM, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 6:53 AM Luciano Mannucci > > wrote: > > > >>> While I have no objection for general direction, I have doubts about > >> removal > >>> of ste(4) and

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 10:15 AM Michelle Sullivan wrote: > tech-lists wrote: > > > > I'm astonished you're considering removing rl given how common it is. > > > > I'll second that comment - though no disrespect to Brooks. Brooks as > far as I can see is just the messenger. > Absent good data, o

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

>>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< A few points of clarification: Rod correctly points out that this message makes it look like the FCP is a done deal as written. This is not the case and we welcome feedback on the entire proposal. IMO, soliciting input on the list of drivers along w

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

> On Oct 4, 2018, at 7:58 AM, Warner Losh wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 6:53 AM Luciano Mannucci > wrote: > >>> While I have no objection for general direction, I have doubts about >> removal >>> of ste(4) and especially rl(4). These are cheap 100Mbit VERY popular NICs >>> sold in enourm

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

tech-lists wrote: I'm astonished you're considering removing rl given how common it is. I'll second that comment - though no disrespect to Brooks. Brooks as far as I can see is just the messenger. -- Michelle Sullivan http://www.mhix.org/ ___ f

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 9:59 AM Rodney W. Grimes < freebsd-...@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 9:46 AM Cy Schubert > > wrote: > > > > > I'm willing to help out with rl(4) as I have one here. Others, not > > > scheduled for removal, that I can help one way or another are a

RE: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

Mailing List; FreeBSD Net Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 08:43:33AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > As far as I know, none of the drivers listed could do 1Gbps. Right. My point was that original proposal put 10/100 drivers into one basket, which

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

> On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 9:46 AM Cy Schubert > wrote: > > > I'm willing to help out with rl(4) as I have one here. Others, not > > scheduled for removal, that I can help one way or another are are NICs, > > including wireless, currently installed here. > > > > There's an iflib man page that's a

RE: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

-STABLE Mailing List; freebsd-a...@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers Warner Losh wrote: [lots of stuff snipped] >That's why that one way to get the driver off the list is to convert to >iflib. That greatly reduces the burden by centralizing all

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 9:46 AM Cy Schubert wrote: > I'm willing to help out with rl(4) as I have one here. Others, not > scheduled for removal, that I can help one way or another are are NICs, > including wireless, currently installed here. > There's an iflib man page that's a decent place to st

RE: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

d.org; freebsd-...@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers In message , Warner Losh writes: >Most of these drivers have had dozens or hundreds of commits each over the >years to keep up with the API changes. This acts as a tax on innovation >becau

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 08:43:33AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > As far as I know, none of the drivers listed could do 1Gbps. Right. My point was that original proposal put 10/100 drivers into one basket, which is IMHO not fair: 10Mbps cards are rarely seen and used, 100mbps are not, just like 1000

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 8:40 AM Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: > On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 02:26:44PM +, Mark Linimon wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 08:44:11AM +, Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: > > > OK I guess I can understand removing 10 (I personally haven't seen > > > one in a very long time) but

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 02:26:44PM +, Mark Linimon wrote: > On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 08:44:11AM +, Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: > > OK I guess I can understand removing 10 (I personally haven't seen > > one in a very long time) but 100 are omnipresent and most of my NICs > > are in fact 100. > >

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

Warner Losh wrote: [lots of stuff snipped] >That's why that one way to get the driver off the list is to convert to >iflib. That greatly reduces the burden by centralizing all the stupid, >common things of a driver so that we only have to change one place, not >dozens. I can probably do this for b

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 08:44:11AM +, Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: > OK I guess I can understand removing 10 (I personally haven't seen > one in a very long time) but 100 are omnipresent and most of my NICs > are in fact 100. Sigh. If you really plan to still be using i386 and 10/100 ether in 2024

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

In message , Warner Losh writes: >Most of these drivers have had dozens or hundreds of commits each over the >years to keep up with the API changes. This acts as a tax on innovation >because it's such a pain in the back side to change all the drivers in the >tree. As one who has been th

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 2:45 AM Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: > Looking at the commits they require near zero maintenance. What exactly > is the burden here? > I believe that characterization is incorrect. There's a burden. And it's death of a thousand cuts. And many of those cuts have been inflicted

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 6:53 AM Luciano Mannucci wrote: > On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:03:01 +0700 > Eugene Grosbein wrote: > > > The current list of drivers that will STAY in the tree is: > > > > > > dc, ffec, fxpl, hme, le, sis, vr, xl > > > > "fxpl" should have been "fxp" here, I suppose. > Yes. >

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:03:01 +0700 Eugene Grosbein wrote: > > The current list of drivers that will STAY in the tree is: > > > > dc, ffec, fxpl, hme, le, sis, vr, xl > > "fxpl" should have been "fxp" here, I suppose. > > While I have no objection for general direction, I have doubts about remo

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On 10/4/18 2:06 PM, Christoph Moench-Tegeder wrote: (heck, even RPis have a GBit interface Only the 3B. Older models, up to the first RPi3 still have a 100Mb/s NIC. I just happen to have an RPi3 and I'd really love to convert it to FreeBSD once 12.x is stable enough. BTW, I also use fxp

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

Alexey Dokuchaev writes: > Looking at the commits they require near zero maintenance. Please do not confuse “nobody is maintaining them” with “they don't need maintenance”, because they do. And please assume good faith. Brooks asked for people to speak up if they care about some of the drivers

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

I also call for keeping of the ste(4) driver. We use several 4-head D-LinkDFE-580TX cards. Removing their support would incur serious expenses for us for replacement hardware. > On 4 Oct 2018, at 09:03, Eugene Grosbein wrote: > > 04.10.2018 4:05, Brooks Davis wrote: > > Please direct

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

## Alexey Dokuchaev (da...@freebsd.org): > > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 > > Holy shit! OK I guess I can understand removing 10 (I personally haven't > seen one in a very long time)

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On 03/10/18 22:05, Brooks Davis wrote: We are solictiting feedback on the list of drivers to be excepted from removal. The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is: ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe Please do not remove rl. I have

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 09:05:16PM +, Brooks Davis wrote: FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining and improving the network stack

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 09:05:16PM +, Brooks Davis wrote: > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 Holy shit! OK I guess I can understand removing 10 (I personally haven't seen one in a very

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

04.10.2018 4:05, Brooks Davis wrote: Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< > > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 > and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining