Re: gEDA-user: Tragesym template problem.

2011-03-19 Thread Geoff Swan
Last time I saw this error it was because when I saved the file, all text fields were quoted. Ie - instead of> version\t01 it read> "version"\t01 or something along those lines. I fixed with vim... :1,$s/\"//g Geoff ___ geda-user

Re: gEDA-user: TDSON-8 footprint

2011-03-19 Thread John Luciani
Not sure the pitch you require but I have a couple of SON's at http://www.luciani.org/geda/pcb/pcb-footprint-list.html (* jcl *) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user

Re: gEDA-user: Tragesym template problem.

2011-03-19 Thread Stefan Salewski
g" > > In the template, I had changed the example version number to "20110319 > 1", following the format of the template version number. I verified > that the CSV file contains a version line. Has anyone out there found > a solution to this problem?

gEDA-user: TDSON-8 footprint

2011-03-19 Thread Rob Butts
I'm using a mosfet with a TDSON-8 footprint. I looked on [1]gedasymbols.org and couldn't find anything. I also can't find anything in PCB. Does anyone have this or can someone direct me? I'd rather not have to make one. Also if a symbol would be great too. Thanks References

gEDA-user: Tragesym template problem.

2011-03-19 Thread Daniel Ross
Hello, I am trying to fill out the Tragesym template for an ATmega128RFA1, but the script gives me an error when I pass it the CSV file (renamed to a ".sch" file): "error: version attribut missing" In the template, I had changed the example version number to "2

Re: gEDA-user: General Layers questions

2011-03-19 Thread John Doty
On Mar 18, 2011, at 2:25 PM, DJ Delorie wrote: > Inkscape gives you complete flexibility, and it's absolutely useless > as a pcb layout tool. Indeed. So please remember that the job of a layout tool is to describe the *geometry* of *physical* objects. It's *not* just a graphical tool, nor shoul

Re: gEDA-user: Multi-Select with SHIFT, CTRL...

2011-03-19 Thread Steven Michalske
On Mar 19, 2011, at 2:38 PM, Stefan Salewski wrote: > On Sat, 2011-03-19 at 13:14 -0700, Steven Michalske wrote: > >>> Scroll wheel: rotate selection or element under mouse pointer >>> If nothing is selected and mouse pointer is over unpopulated area >>> or SHIFT modifier is used: Zoom in/o

Re: gEDA-user: General Layers questions

2011-03-19 Thread John Doty
On Mar 19, 2011, at 2:03 PM, Steven Michalske wrote: > Oh my! You can draw The plating on the insulator layer. Thus making the > plating a real object of conductor This is more 3d cad leaking through. DJ once made the observation that pcb's basic problem is the lack of a proper layer stac

Re: gEDA-user: Multi-Select with SHIFT, CTRL...

2011-03-19 Thread Stefan Salewski
On Sat, 2011-03-19 at 13:14 -0700, Steven Michalske wrote: > > Scroll wheel: rotate selection or element under mouse pointer > > If nothing is selected and mouse pointer is over unpopulated area > > or SHIFT modifier is used: Zoom in/out > > > Track pad users may want scroll to be scrolling

Re: gEDA-user: Multi-Select with SHIFT, CTRL...

2011-03-19 Thread Steven Michalske
On Mar 18, 2011, at 4:41 PM, Stefan Salewski wrote: > On Fri, 2011-03-18 at 19:17 -0400, DJ Delorie wrote: >>> shift-leftclick on object >> >> Don't forget about select-region, select-touching, >> select-touching-line, etc. >> > > I guess that is not too common in schematics? > > Here is

Re: gEDA-user: General Layers questions

2011-03-19 Thread Steven Michalske
On Mar 19, 2011, at 12:33 PM, John Doty wrote: > > On Mar 19, 2011, at 1:20 PM, Steven Michalske wrote: > >> This is what bothers me about a hole layer, un plated vs plated, the holes >> do not define electrical contact, the plating does. >> >> Or, rivits, or the soldered wires on hand

Re: gEDA-user: General Layers questions

2011-03-19 Thread Steven Michalske
On Mar 19, 2011, at 9:50 AM, Martin Kupec wrote: > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 10:14:54AM -0600, John Doty wrote: >> >> On Mar 18, 2011, at 2:23 PM, Martin Kupec wrote: >> >>> If layers types would be defined by attributes, someone would be able to >>> declare one layer both as conductive and

Re: gEDA-user: General Layers questions

2011-03-19 Thread John Doty
On Mar 19, 2011, at 1:20 PM, Steven Michalske wrote: > This is what bothers me about a hole layer, un plated vs plated, the holes > do not define electrical contact, the plating does. > > Or, rivits, or the soldered wires on hand assembled multilayer boards. > > Well with silver ink circuit

Re: gEDA-user: General Layers questions

2011-03-19 Thread Steven Michalske
On Mar 19, 2011, at 8:13 AM, John Doty wrote: > > On Mar 19, 2011, at 4:57 AM, Markus Hitter wrote: > >> BTW., there were electronic circuitries before PCBs were invented and the >> future of electronics manufacturing is most likely something >> three-dimensional, arbitrarily shaped. >

Re: gEDA-user: General Layers questions

2011-03-19 Thread Steven Michalske
This message makes me think that COW should remember what master it was copied from and an edited flag. On Mar 18, 2011, at 5:16 PM, Stephan Boettcher wrote: > DJ Delorie writes: > Except gerbers have special cases for thermals and pads, for example. >>> >>> So there need to be att

Re: gEDA-user: General Layers questions

2011-03-19 Thread Steven Michalske
On Mar 18, 2011, at 4:39 PM, DJ Delorie wrote: > >> It is the exporter's job to understand drilling. For geometry >> capture, all you need to know is the shape. Modules with no "need to >> know" should not know. > > The autorouter needs to know not to run traces across unplated > holes...

Re: gEDA-user: General Layers questions

2011-03-19 Thread Steven Michalske
On Mar 18, 2011, at 4:37 PM, DJ Delorie wrote: > >> Still, I do not see a need for outline layers anywhere, except as an >> attribute on a graphical layer that tells an exporter where to stop >> drawing. > > Hmmm... so you think PCB should let the user place an element in a > physically im

Re: gEDA-user: General Layers questions

2011-03-19 Thread Steven Michalske
On Mar 18, 2011, at 4:17 PM, Stephan Boettcher wrote: > DJ Delorie writes: > I expect the plugin mechanism to be the way to write *all* the core bits, though. >>> >>> The more important it is, that what is below the plugin mechanism is as >>> general as necessary, and since th

Re: gEDA-user: General Layers questions

2011-03-19 Thread Steven Michalske
On Mar 18, 2011, at 4:02 PM, DJ Delorie wrote: > >>> Except gerbers have special cases for thermals and pads, for example. >> >> So there need to be attributes on shapes. > > No, the exporters really need to have access to the whole collection > of shapes that means "pin" so they can do p

Re: gEDA-user: General Layers questions

2011-03-19 Thread Steven Michalske
On Mar 18, 2011, at 3:43 PM, DJ Delorie wrote: > >>> I expect the plugin mechanism to be the way to write *all* the core >>> bits, though. >> >> The more important it is, that what is below the plugin mechanism is as >> general as necessary, and since that is difficult to judge up front:

Re: gEDA-user: General Layers questions

2011-03-19 Thread Steven Michalske
On Mar 18, 2011, at 3:22 PM, Stephan Boettcher wrote: > DJ Delorie writes: > >>> ... I think the tool we have is pretty good already. Very good. Thanks! >> >> The tool we have already is nearly impossible to maintain, though. >> >>> Please do not expect that users write plugins. The t

Re: gEDA-user: General Layers questions

2011-03-19 Thread Steven Michalske
On Mar 18, 2011, at 3:07 PM, DJ Delorie wrote: > >> That's the kind of "top down" design that produces a tool that meets >> today's requirements in the minimum amount of time, but produces an >> inflexible tool limited to those requirements. > > And your kind of bottom-up design never gets

Re: gEDA-user: General Layers questions

2011-03-19 Thread Steven Michalske
On Mar 18, 2011, at 2:19 PM, DJ Delorie wrote: > >> I don't want to end up with the current state that some 'specialy >> named' layers receive special treatment. > > From a practical standpoint, I think it makes sense to have a fast way > to scan for layers of some high-level type, as well

Re: gEDA-user: General Layers questions

2011-03-19 Thread John Doty
On Mar 19, 2011, at 11:01 AM, Martin Kupec wrote: > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 10:56:27AM -0600, John Doty wrote: >> >> On Mar 19, 2011, at 10:50 AM, Martin Kupec wrote: >> >>> On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 10:14:54AM -0600, John Doty wrote: On Mar 18, 2011, at 2:23 PM, Martin Kupec wrote: >>

Re: gEDA-user: General Layers questions

2011-03-19 Thread Martin Kupec
On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 10:56:27AM -0600, John Doty wrote: > > On Mar 19, 2011, at 10:50 AM, Martin Kupec wrote: > > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 10:14:54AM -0600, John Doty wrote: > >> > >> On Mar 18, 2011, at 2:23 PM, Martin Kupec wrote: > >> > >>> If layers types would be defined by attributes,

Re: gEDA-user: General Layers questions

2011-03-19 Thread John Doty
On Mar 19, 2011, at 10:50 AM, Martin Kupec wrote: > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 10:14:54AM -0600, John Doty wrote: >> >> On Mar 18, 2011, at 2:23 PM, Martin Kupec wrote: >> >>> If layers types would be defined by attributes, someone would be able to >>> declare one layer both as conductive and as s

Re: gEDA-user: General Layers questions

2011-03-19 Thread Martin Kupec
On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 04:43:29PM +0100, Stephan Boettcher wrote: > Martin Kupec writes: > > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 09:00:04PM +0100, Stephan Boettcher wrote: > >> Martin Kupec writes: > >> > That is a bit complicated. I need a clean definition of layer types, so > >> > one can pick the righ

Re: gEDA-user: General Layers questions

2011-03-19 Thread Martin Kupec
On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 10:14:54AM -0600, John Doty wrote: > > On Mar 18, 2011, at 2:23 PM, Martin Kupec wrote: > > > If layers types would be defined by attributes, someone would be able to > > declare one layer both as conductive and as silk for example. That could > > cause me a nighmares. Tha

Re: gEDA-user: General Layers questions

2011-03-19 Thread John Doty
On Mar 18, 2011, at 2:23 PM, Martin Kupec wrote: > If layers types would be defined by attributes, someone would be able to > declare one layer both as conductive and as silk for example. That could > cause me a nighmares. That is why I insist on 'typed' layers, not > 'tagged' layer. No. The nig

Re: gEDA-user: General Layers questions

2011-03-19 Thread Stephan Boettcher
John Doty writes: > On Mar 19, 2011, at 4:57 AM, Markus Hitter wrote: > >> BTW., there were electronic circuitries before PCBs were invented and >> the future of electronics manufacturing is most likely something >> three-dimensional, arbitrarily shaped. > > Yes. I'm now working with two groups t

Re: gEDA-user: General Layers questions

2011-03-19 Thread Stephan Boettcher
Martin Kupec writes: > On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 09:00:04PM +0100, Stephan Boettcher wrote: >> Martin Kupec writes: >> > That is a bit complicated. I need a clean definition of layer types, so >> > one can pick the right layer when needed. But some attributes in >> > addition to layer type are pos

Re: gEDA-user: General Layers questions

2011-03-19 Thread John Doty
On Mar 19, 2011, at 4:57 AM, Markus Hitter wrote: > BTW., there were electronic circuitries before PCBs were invented and the > future of electronics manufacturing is most likely something > three-dimensional, arbitrarily shaped. Yes. I'm now working with two groups that are fabricating parts

Re: gEDA-user: General Layers questions

2011-03-19 Thread Stephan Boettcher
Stephan Boettcher writes: >> Now consider a differential pair. It's a line but you *don't* move >> the *line* endpoints, you move the *pair* control points. > > That is a hard one. You could define a composit of type "morphable" The > endpoints of shapes inside such a composite become pointable

Re: gEDA-user: General Layers questions

2011-03-19 Thread Markus Hitter
Am 19.03.2011 um 02:29 schrieb John Doty: ... comparison to the C language snipped ... Proper bottom-up design *never* results in "impossible-to-meet requirements" because it starts from capabilities. Nice description, John. What can a layered description of tame plane geometries (no f

Re: gEDA-user: General Layers questions

2011-03-19 Thread Martin Kupec
On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 11:02:55AM +0100, Stephan Boettcher wrote: > I will now have a look at that. But what do you call majority? The > most vocal people here, like John and myself did not offer to do any > coding, yet. In the end, those that code (DJ, you ?) decide. I am the one who is willin

Re: gEDA-user: General Layers questions

2011-03-19 Thread Stephan Boettcher
Martin Kupec writes: > Hi all, > > I appreciate the discussion. So do I. It started out a bit of a mess, because we were talking about different things, but in the end I think there was not left much disagreement about fundamental issues. > There we nearly no objections to my layer concept, ju