On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 07:59:47PM -0600, William Hubbs wrote
I see three options:
1) Start migrating packages along with upstream and have everyone who
has a separate /usr (including me by the way) start using an initramfs
of some kind, either dracut or one that we generate specifically
Hi Walter,
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 04:51:57AM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote:
4) Following pointers from Zac Medico and others, I've managed to get
Gentoo running with busybox's mdev, instead of udev. See
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/msg_bc91b392ee0f76376104591cdf7dc5f0.xml
Executive
On 01/01/12 03:53 AM, Sven Vermeulen wrote:
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 07:59:47PM -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
The goal is to deprecate /bin, /lib, /sbin and /usr/sbin. My
understanding is that they want to move software that is installed in
/bin, /sbin and /usr/sbin to /usr/bin. Also, they want to
On 01/01/12 05:15 AM, Zac Medico wrote:
Overall, a migration like this should go pretty smoothly as long as
people with separate /usr take appropriate actions to make sure their
systems will boot. People without separate /usr can basically relax and
enjoy the ride.
If a separate /usr is the
On 01/03/2012 10:53 AM, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
On 01/01/12 03:53 AM, Sven Vermeulen wrote:
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 07:59:47PM -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
The goal is to deprecate /bin, /lib, /sbin and /usr/sbin. My
understanding is that they want to move software that is installed in
/bin,
On 02/01/12 12:54 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
The one thing I
haven't figured out yet is whether it is possible to create an
initramfs that doesn't have to be updated with every kernel upgrade.
I'm not sure if there is dracut-specific issues that would relate to
this, but the
On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 11:08:09 -0500
G.Wolfe Woodbury redwo...@gmail.com wrote:
On 01/03/2012 10:53 AM, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
On 01/01/12 03:53 AM, Sven Vermeulen wrote:
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 07:59:47PM -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
The goal is to deprecate /bin, /lib, /sbin and /usr/sbin.
On 03/01/12 10:10 AM, William Hubbs wrote:
Unfortunately, it isn't going to be as simple as switching away from
udev. This move is going to move all software from /bin, /sbin and /lib
to /usr/bin and /usr/lib. The end result is going to be that regardless
of whether you are using mdev or udev
On 03-01-2012 10:51:00 -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
If a separate /usr is the only holdback, would it not be possible to
simply add static devnodes to the pre-udev /dev , and make a pre-init
wrapper script that mounts /usr ?
I've thought about this, but a wrapper script assumes that the
On 03/01/12 11:51 AM, William Hubbs wrote:
For example, consider
what happens when bash or all of coreutils migrate to /usr.
..well, when /bin/sh no longer exists then there -will- be issues,
system-wide, on a massive scale. Unless shells or environments can
dynamically map that
Ian Stakenvicius posted on Tue, 03 Jan 2012 12:03:32 -0500 as excerpted:
On 03/01/12 11:51 AM, William Hubbs wrote:
For example, consider what happens when bash or all of coreutils
migrate to /usr.
..well, when /bin/sh no longer exists then there -will- be issues,
system-wide, on a
Ian Stakenvicius posted on Tue, 03 Jan 2012 10:53:45 -0500 as excerpted:
Has the LFH been updated?? Googling seems to say no, as the last mod
seems to have been in 2004...
That was covered here in the last discussion. The FHS and LSB are
getting updated too, with the people driving the
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 11:08 AM, G.Wolfe Woodbury redwo...@gmail.com wrote:
It
is getting to the point that the security aspects of having a read-only
mount for userspace executables is being overridden by developer fiat.
Can you clarify what you mean by this? I think the whole reason that
Ian Stakenvicius posted on Tue, 03 Jan 2012 11:40:02 -0500 as excerpted:
Side note - if /lib is getting moved, does that mean /lib/modules is
moving to /usr/lib/modules too? So kernel modules are no longer on
root?
Yes. Again, the whole thing is being designed from the perspective of a
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 05:35:51PM +, Duncan wrote:
Ian Stakenvicius posted on Tue, 03 Jan 2012 12:03:32 -0500 as excerpted:
On 03/01/12 11:51 AM, William Hubbs wrote:
For example, consider what happens when bash or all of coreutils
migrate to /usr.
..well, when /bin/sh no
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 11:40:02AM -0500, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
I don't think anyone's asked this yet:
Do we NEED to deprecate /bin,/sbin,/usr/sbin,/lib ? I realize that
udev/kmod/systemd are moving, but there isn't anything in particular
that would require everything else to move, is
Hi,
On Mon, 2012-01-02 at 10:41 +0200, Eray Aslan wrote:
On 2012-01-01 11:50 PM, Olivier Crête wrote:
systemd/dracut/etc handles /usr on its own filesystem just fine. What is
required is that /usr must be mounted before the pivot_root away from
the initramfs.
RedHat made some bad design
On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 13:50:25 -0500
Olivier Crête tes...@gentoo.org wrote:
There is a good reason for that, because in-place upgrades are
impossible to do safely (and RedHat customers don't accept weird
breakages like Gentoo users do). For example, if you replace a library
or even a resource
On 03-01-2012 13:02:55 -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 01:50:25PM -0500, Olivier Crête wrote:
I don't see what breakage would be caused by a big-bang update (move
everything in /sbin,/bin/,usr/sbin to usr/bin and add symlinks. I really
doubt any system has a /usr so
On Tue, 2012-01-03 at 12:36 -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 11:40:02AM -0500, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
Side note - if /lib is getting moved, does that mean /lib/modules is
moving to /usr/lib/modules too? So kernel modules are no longer on root?
This is an interesting
On Tue, 2012-01-03 at 13:02 -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 01:50:25PM -0500, Olivier Crête wrote:
I don't see what breakage would be caused by a big-bang update (move
everything in /sbin,/bin/,usr/sbin to usr/bin and add symlinks. I really
doubt any system has a /usr so
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 1:36 PM, William Hubbs willi...@gentoo.org wrote:
Well, I don't think everything is going to move immediately. The way I
see this happening is, udev/systemd/kmod are moving first, then other
upstreams will move their software.
Agreed. If only a few packages have issues
On 03-01-2012 14:19:22 -0500, Olivier Crête wrote:
On Tue, 2012-01-03 at 12:36 -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 11:40:02AM -0500, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
Side note - if /lib is getting moved, does that mean /lib/modules is
moving to /usr/lib/modules too? So kernel
2012/1/3 Olivier Crête tes...@gentoo.org:
A couple years ago, Gentoo was the forward looking distribution, ready
to try radical changes that break existing assumption, like our init
scripts with dependencies or our early use of udev. These days, I see so
much resistance to progress, it makes
On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 12:06 AM, William Hubbs willi...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 11:40:02AM -0500, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
I don't think anyone's asked this yet:
Do we NEED to deprecate /bin,/sbin,/usr/sbin,/lib ? I realize that
udev/kmod/systemd are moving, but there isn't
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 02:19:39PM -0500, Olivier Crête wrote:
On Tue, 2012-01-03 at 13:02 -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 01:50:25PM -0500, Olivier Crête wrote:
I don't see what breakage would be caused by a big-bang update (move
everything in /sbin,/bin/,usr/sbin to
On 03-01-2012 13:39:14 -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
in /usr/lib/modules even though the kernel installs them
in /lib/modules.. So yes, upstream will force these symlinks on us too.
I just looked at the commit in kmod for this. It can be worked around
with a ./configure switch until the
On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 1:05 AM, Rich Freeman ri...@gentoo.org wrote:
part of). For example, if eventually you can't run gnome without
systemd where does that leave bsd gentoo users?
Is Mesa support on BSD really all that up-to-date these days? I don't
expect that they keep up with bugfixes
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 08:12:06PM +0100, Fabian Groffen wrote:
I think the best way to do this part of it is going to be to just follow
the upstream packages. When they release a new version that installs in
/usr, just allow that to happen. Eventually there will be very little in
On Tue, 2012-01-03 at 14:35 -0500, Rich Freeman wrote:
2012/1/3 Olivier Crête tes...@gentoo.org:
A couple years ago, Gentoo was the forward looking distribution, ready
to try radical changes that break existing assumption, like our init
scripts with dependencies or our early use of udev.
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 01:50:25PM -0500, Olivier Crête wrote:
On Mon, 2012-01-02 at 10:41 +0200, Eray Aslan wrote:
RedHat made some bad design decisions on RPM (.rpmnew files anyone?) and
udev. Udev was probably salvagable before systemd but noone has the
motivation or the man-power to
On 3.1.2012 19.51, Sven Vermeulen wrote:
[2] http://dev.gentoo.org/~swift/docs/previews/hb-portage-advanced.xml
The discussion however is if it is okay to document these things there or
not. Some of the features are considered to be too fragile to be broadly
documented (at least in a
On 03-01-2012 14:01:20 -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 08:12:06PM +0100, Fabian Groffen wrote:
I think the best way to do this part of it is going to be to just follow
the upstream packages. When they release a new version that installs in
/usr, just allow that to
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Hash: SHA512
On 01/03/2012 10:21 PM, Sven Vermeulen wrote:
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 09:57:04PM +, Roy Bamford wrote:
Team,
The Gentoo Handbook is about getting the base system installed.
As such features such as per package CFLAGS have no place there.
On Sun, Jan 01, 2012 at 03:21:47PM -0500, Olivier Crête wrote:
I use a separate /usr with LVM on all my systems. My root partition uses
RAID1. And I never had the need for an initramfs of any kind. Also, there
are some major hurdles to take when it comes to getting an initramfs working
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 10:22:15PM +0100, Fabian Groffen wrote:
I'll have to go through on my system at
least and find all of the ebuilds that install things in
/{bin,sbin,lib}. I'll open a tracker bug as soon as udev-176 is
released; this will list all of the things we need to do to
On Tue, 3 Jan 2012 17:09:18 -0600
William Hubbs willi...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 10:22:15PM +0100, Fabian Groffen wrote:
I'll have to go through on my system at
least and find all of the ebuilds that install things in
/{bin,sbin,lib}. I'll open a tracker bug as soon as
Ian Stakenvicius posted on Tue, 03 Jan 2012 13:18:06 -0500 as excerpted:
... if Gentoo's installed on a system (regardless of platform, and
leaving out the Prefix installs), the filesystem is up to gentoo right?
ie, there wouldn't be a need for a particular platform to stick with
FHS-2.3
William Hubbs schrieb:
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 10:22:15PM +0100, Fabian Groffen wrote:
I'll have to go through on my system at
least and find all of the ebuilds that install things in
/{bin,sbin,lib}. I'll open a tracker bug as soon as udev-176 is
released; this will list all of the things
Hi folks,
Today, I was shocked to find that the EsounD daemon is still in the
tree and new ebuilds are actually still pulling it in under USE=esd!
Proposal: package.mask media-sound/esound, use.mask USE=esd. Anything
that still uses it should stop using it. Anything that /needs it/
should be
A bunch of users have been emailing me asking when 4.6 will be unmasked. I
really want to get it out the door already but we have a (IMO) substantial
blocker. A small number of users have reported that grub built with 4.6
fails to boot their systems. See the last half of bug #360513 for
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