On 03/13/2012 07:38 PM, Brian Harring wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 07:05:57PM -0700, Zac Medico wrote:
>> If all package managers adhere strictly
>> to these two requirements, then we won't have any incompatibilities
>> between package managers here.
>
> You're missing a lot of the point here;
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 07:05:57PM -0700, Zac Medico wrote:
> On 03/13/2012 06:42 PM, Brian Harring wrote:
> > Leaving it such that the PM has to enforce things like "don't have
> > multiple EAPI assignments" means by default, one of them isn't going
> > to... leading to the ebuilds breaking... s
On 03/13/2012 10:36 PM, Zac Medico wrote:
On 03/13/2012 07:23 PM, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
Someone should really throw up a table on wiki.g.o with a comparison of
the proposed methods.
We've got one already:
http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Alternate_EAPI_mechanisms
*facepalm*
On 03/13/2012 07:23 PM, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> Someone should really throw up a table on wiki.g.o with a comparison of
> the proposed methods.
We've got one already:
http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Alternate_EAPI_mechanisms
--
Thanks,
Zac
On 03/13/2012 10:05 PM, Zac Medico wrote:
On 03/13/2012 06:42 PM, Brian Harring wrote:
Leaving it such that the PM has to enforce things like "don't have
multiple EAPI assignments" means by default, one of them isn't going
to... leading to the ebuilds breaking... specifically the common case
bei
On 03/13/2012 07:01 PM, Brian Harring wrote:
> With respect; you're proposing we go gum up version parsing via
> shoving EAPI directly into it. Literally, make what is already a
> complex mess, worse. Apply some KISS to your proposal please. ;)
>
> Just hammering the point home; compatibility
On 03/13/2012 06:42 PM, Brian Harring wrote:
> Leaving it such that the PM has to enforce things like "don't have
> multiple EAPI assignments" means by default, one of them isn't going
> to... leading to the ebuilds breaking... specifically the common case
> being the ebuild becoming acclimated
On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 09:05:26AM -0700, Zac Medico wrote:
> On 03/12/2012 01:36 AM, Brian Harring wrote:
> > On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 09:08:24PM -0700, Zac Medico wrote:
> >> 1) User downloads an overlay that doesn't provide cache. We want the
> >> package manager to give a pretty "EAPI unsupporte
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 08:29:03PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 07:30:22AM +, Ciaran McCreesh wrote
>
> > EAPI is special. You need to know EAPI to be able to get the rest of
> > the metadata.
> >
> > > 2) Any potential ebuild processor that's incapable of looking for
>
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 08:29:31PM -0400, Joshua Kinard wrote:
> make menuconfig, make [, make modules[_install]], then
> update the bootloader, is how I've done kernels for the longest time. This
> new approach makes the above command sequence invalid if under a separate
> /usr.
And why does the
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 02:29, Joshua Kinard wrote:
> make menuconfig, make [, make modules[_install]], then
> update the bootloader, is how I've done kernels for the longest time. This
> new approach makes the above command sequence invalid if under a separate
> /usr.
If your /usr doesn't requ
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 8:20 PM, Joshua Kinard wrote:
> The trend now seems to be to modularize everything these days, even stuff
> like the core disk drivers, then build those core modules into an initramfs
> that the kernel cherrypicks from at boot. That's the perception, anyways,
> and one whi
On 03/13/2012 08:29 PM, Walter Dnes wrote:
I'm answering Ciaran's and Brian's posts together, because the answer
is the same for both... namely, we need a 2-pass processor, regardless
of whether it's bash/perl/python/whatever. Pass 1 checks for syntax
errors and retrieves "special" variables
On Tue, 2012-03-13 at 20:29 -0400, Joshua Kinard wrote:
> On 03/13/2012 05:14, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>
> >
> > And besides, genkernel and dracut are automatized; they *are* the
> > simple (and proper, IMHO) solution.
>
>
> My contention is that I shouldn't need an initramfs loaded into my
On 03/13/2012 05:14, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>
> And besides, genkernel and dracut are automatized; they *are* the
> simple (and proper, IMHO) solution.
My contention is that I shouldn't need an initramfs loaded into my kernel to
get my system into a minimally-usable state. I've been runnin
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 07:30:22AM +, Ciaran McCreesh wrote
> EAPI is special. You need to know EAPI to be able to get the rest of
> the metadata.
>
> > 2) Any potential ebuild processor that's incapable of looking for
> > regex "^EAPI=" in a textfile, amd parsing the numbers that follow,
> >
On 03/13/2012 01:17, Luca Barbato wrote:
>
> So you need need a smaller udev that is completely self contained and make
> sure anything needed for the key rules works. I wonder if the pci-ids cannot
> stay somewhere in /etc or /lib
>
> lu
I think gregkh is already on record as saying that the
On 03/13/2012 07:54, James Broadhead wrote:
> On 13 March 2012 01:22, Joshua Kinard wrote:
>> We should be working to getting rid of /usr and bring it all back into /,
>> then create temporary /usr symlinks to point programs in the right
>> direction. After all, /usr was originally for user data
On 03/13/2012 01:11, Luca Barbato wrote:
>
> Our current init system doesn't have any problem with /usr being mounted
> later, but udev might have issues.
>
> Same could be said about bluez and dbus.
bluez and dbus aren't system-critical services, however. udev kinda is,
along with key filesy
On 13 March 2012 14:41, Marc Schiffbauer wrote:
> Am Montag, 12. März 2012, 21:22:26 schrieb Joshua Kinard:
> [...]
>> After all, /usr was originally for user data, not system data,
>> until someone cooked up /home (I don't know the full exact history here, so
>> feel free to correct me).
>
> IIRC
On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 07:50:36PM +0100, Ulrich Mueller wrote:
> > On Mon, 12 Mar 2012, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > GLEP 55 is simple, it solves all the problems we have (including the
> > version issue, which everyone is conveniently ignoring), it doesn't
> > require us to guess what's going t
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 05:10:14PM +0100, Wulf C. Krueger wrote:
> On 13.03.2012 07:22, Brian Harring wrote:
> > Still is god awfuly fugly though, and reliant on digits as the first
> > character to be readable. Consider exheres:
> > dev-foo/foo-bar-2.3.4.eapiexheres.eb
>
> Just for the record
On 03/11/2012 05:49 PM, Brian Harring wrote:
> If people want to enforce the eapi1 is no longer used in the gentoo
> repo, that's fine- we stick a list of acceptable EAPI's into
> its layout.conf.
That sounds pretty reasonable, although I think a deprecation warning
would be more appropriate tha
On 13.03.2012 07:22, Brian Harring wrote:
> Still is god awfuly fugly though, and reliant on digits as the first
> character to be readable. Consider exheres:
> dev-foo/foo-bar-2.3.4.eapiexheres.eb
Just for the record, your example is wrong. For exheres, it would be
foo-bar-2.3.4.exheres-0
"
On 03/13/2012 12:03 AM, Brian Harring wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 02:41:13AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:
>> 2) Any potential ebuild processor that's incapable of looking for regex
>> "^EAPI=" in a textfile, amd parsing the numbers that follow, has no
>> business being used to process ebuilds.
>
Am Montag, 12. März 2012, 21:22:26 schrieb Joshua Kinard:
[...]
> After all, /usr was originally for user data, not system data,
> until someone cooked up /home (I don't know the full exact history here, so
> feel free to correct me).
IIRC usr = unified system resources (not an abbrev. for "user")
On 12.3.2012 1.15, William Hubbs wrote:
>>
>> How do you plan to handle notifying stable users if you go with
> I was thinking of another news item once we are ready to go stable.
>
> What do you think?
>
> William
>
We could reuse the same news item if we now release it as >= and then
releas
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On 12/03/12 11:14 PM, Joshua Kinard wrote:
> On 03/12/2012 22:33, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
>
>>
>> On 2012-03-12, at 9:22 PM, Joshua Kinard
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> And yes, I've already tested out udev-181 on a VM with a
>>> separate /usr. With dev
On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 08:20:08PM +, Robin H. Johnson wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 10:07:48PM +0200, Samuli Suominen wrote:
> > ssmtp has been quiet project for quite a while, where as msmtp is
> > maintained one.
> >
> > sure, ssmtp might be just mature, but msmtp is equally small and h
On mar, 13 2012 08:46:06, "Paweł Hajdan, Jr." wrote:
> On 3/12/12 7:58 PM, Marco Paolone wrote:
>> scarabeus recently posted on his blog [1] about submission of stabilization
>> requests from users. Since using bugzilla could be a mess of duplicated
>> entries, I was thinking about a "Stabilization
On 13 March 2012 01:22, Joshua Kinard wrote:
> We should be working to getting rid of /usr and bring it all back into /,
> then create temporary /usr symlinks to point programs in the right
> direction. After all, /usr was originally for user data, not system data,
> until someone cooked up /home
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 2:29 AM, Richard Yao wrote:
> To make XML a viable substitute for bash, you will need to implement a
> turing complete language in XML, which should probably preclude its use
> in ebuilds. You would likely have better luck with a functional
> programming language, although
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 01:33:28AM -0700, Brian Dolbec wrote:
> ... and just when I was beginning to think no one actually cared :) ...
I specifically wanted to avoid any special regex to pull data out of the
XML. Merging fields is acceptable, splitting them based on regex isn't.
> The proper form
On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 01:33:28 -0700
Brian Dolbec wrote:
> The proper form of an irc url is in my example
> "irc://irc.gentoo.org/gentoo-guis" and I took it from gentoo's irc
> channel page at http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/irc.xml .
Exactly. Most web browsers would know what to do with that, too.
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 04:43:06AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:
> Question... does it have to be an initramfs, or can the vast majority
> of simple cases be handled by a simple initscript in /bin or /sbin that
> mounts /usr, and does whatever else is required, before handing off
> control to /sbin/i
On Mon, 12 Mar 2012 21:22:26 -0400
Joshua Kinard wrote:
> On a somewhat sarcastic note, why don't we just deprecate /usr and
> move everything back to /? Isn't that, largely, what is being
> accomplished here? Solaris at least keeps some kernel stuff in / off
> of /stand (I believe). Linux, afte
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 2:43 AM, Walter Dnes wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 09:53:25PM -0500, Rich Freeman wrote
>
>> Perhaps a suggestion for the news item. I'd recommend that anybody
>> who needs an initramfs to mount /usr get that working BEFORE they
>> upgrade udev. This situation is a hec
Hm, I have just realised that we're not discussing it on ml, and
unnecessarily I've CC'ed it to ml, sorry.
--
Amadeusz Żołnowski
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Excerpts from Andreas Herz's message of 2012-03-12 23:33:40 +0100:
> > I use mcabber with gnupg2 and it has no problem with pinentry.
>
> May i ask how you configured mcabber?
> Do you use the curses pinentry?
Gtk usually, but curses works fine, too. I haven't configured anything
special in mcab
> On Tue, 13 Mar 2012, Brian Harring wrote:
> Perfectly valid, if stupid, bash:
> EAPI=3
> EAPI=4
> Which is the PM to choose? Because if your answer is "the first",
> then you need to keep in mind that any following code (including
> eclasses that test eapi) will be seeing the second dur
On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 09:53:25PM -0500, Rich Freeman wrote
> Perhaps a suggestion for the news item. I'd recommend that anybody
> who needs an initramfs to mount /usr get that working BEFORE they
> upgrade udev. This situation is a heck of a lot easier to figure out
> if the system still can b
On Mon, 2012-03-12 at 08:49 +, Robin H. Johnson wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 08:52:20PM +1300, Kent Fredric wrote:
> > On 11 March 2012 22:09, Brian Dolbec wrote:
> > >
> > > eg:
> > >
> > > Channel #gentoo-guis on the freenode network
> > > or
> > > #gentoo-guis on the freenode IR
On 3/12/12 7:58 PM, Marco Paolone wrote:
> scarabeus recently posted on his blog [1] about submission of stabilization
> requests from users. Since using bugzilla could be a mess of duplicated
> entries, I was thinking about a "Stabilization Party" once a month for
> example,
> in order to have a
On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 02:41:13 -0400
"Walter Dnes" wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 05:12:28PM +, Ciaran McCreesh wrote
> > This whole thing is just an exercise in trying to find excuses not
> > to use GLEP 55.
>
> A filename should not be (ab)used as a database.
You mean we shouldn't have n
Kent Fredric posted on Tue, 13 Mar 2012 18:14:23 +1300 as excerpted:
> Eh? How? If you make "." a forbidden character in an eapi
> specificiation,
> and make "." the delimiter
>
> dev-foo/foo-bar-2.3.4.eapi5.eb
>
>
>
> How does that require regex?
>
> remove the .eb , and the last toke
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 02:41:13AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 05:12:28PM +, Ciaran McCreesh wrote
>
> > This whole thing is just an exercise in trying to find excuses not to
> > use GLEP 55.
>
> A filename should not be (ab)used as a database. The main argument for
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