Re: [gentoo-dev] genkernel 3.4.11.1 released

2011-01-20 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 01/20/11 21:55, Fabian Groffen wrote: Unless if you are on some git repo, we have commit mails which can serve this purpose very well. I am on a git repo, and a commit list serves a different purpose: low level tracking of changes. Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-dev] genkernel 3.4.11.1 released

2011-01-20 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 01/20/11 22:06, Jeroen Roovers wrote: Version bumps have no place on the dev-announce list /unless/ they impact developers' work directly. Fine. (and not because you want to celebrate the glory of another version release). I'm not sure if I'm just interpreting things, but I wish you

Re: [gentoo-dev] Tomoyo tools need attention

2011-01-17 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Bumped to 2.3.0-p20100820. Sebastian

[gentoo-dev] genkernel 3.4.11 released

2011-01-16 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Hello! I have just released genkernel 3.4.11 to the testing tree. From a high level point of view this release brings: - Slightly faster startup - Updated versions of busybox, LVM, e2fsprogs/blkid - A few new features, e.g. GnuPG support - A bunch of bug fixes (see below) Below you can find

Re: [gentoo-dev] Need help with updating LVM in genkernel

2011-01-14 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 01/13/11 21:39, Amadeusz Żołnowski wrote: Excerpts from Sebastian Pipping's message of Thu Jan 13 17:20:00 +0100 2011: I get errors for all of 2.02.28, 2.02.36 and 2.02.74. I've create some draft-patch for lvm 2.02.28. Awesome! Thank you! Please let me know if it's OK, and I'll

[gentoo-dev] Need help with updating LVM in genkernel

2011-01-13 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Hello! As you may have seen in my comments on bugs [1] and [2], I need help with getting LVM to compile from genkernel. I get errors for all of 2.02.28, 2.02.36 and 2.02.74. I have tried applying patches from Gentoo ebuilds, too. Please help. These commands can get you started: # git clone

[gentoo-dev] Tomoyo tools need attention

2011-01-12 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Hello! As of bug #342169 [1] the Tomoyo feature of Linux has not been usable for a few month due to an outstanding bump of sys-apps/tomoyo-tools to versio 2.3.0-p20100820. I would like to 1. Ask for work on that by anyone skilled to do with a bit of time proxied or not, and

Re: [gentoo-dev] mysterious change of system python to python3

2011-01-11 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 01/11/11 20:13, Jeremy Olexa wrote: On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:30:03 +0100, Paweł Hajdan, Jr. wrote: I've noticed at least two forums threads that suggest there might be a bug resulting in automatic flip of system python to python3: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-859654-highlight-.html

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Packages up for grabs

2011-01-07 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 01/07/11 09:49, Christian Faulhammer wrote: Besides the bump to 1.7.10... - in tree is 1.7.8-r2. Where did you find 1.7.10? http://ftp.davidashen.net/PreTI/RNV/ does not contain that. http://sourceforge.net/projects/rnv/ sebastian

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages up for grabs

2011-01-06 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 01/06/11 13:17, Christian Faulhammer wrote: app-text/rnv Near to no maintenance work. Besides the bump to 1.7.10... - in tree is 1.7.8-r2. Sebastian

[gentoo-dev] genkernel 3.4.10.908 released

2010-12-24 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Hello! I have just released genkernel 3.4.10.908 to the testing tree. From a high level point of view this release brings: - Unreleased patches laying around in Git (details below) - A much more up to date man page Below you can find details on the changes since 3.4.10.907. Besides the people

Re: [gentoo-dev] Can't the Portage be an efficient guy?

2010-12-06 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 11/26/10 00:17, Nirbheek Chauhan wrote: Zac already blogged about it almost two months ago -- http://blogs.gentoo.org/zmedico/2010/09/07/portage_2-1-9_release/ Awesome. Seems like i missed it. Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [Volunteers needed] Communicating use (and existence) of USE_PYTHON

2010-12-06 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 12/03/10 17:24, Matthew Summers wrote: I have started a GuideXML doc for this. You can find it in my devspace [1]. Its really just a base bones doc at the moment, as I am no overly fond of pomp and circumstance when writing. Glad you are interested in helping out. I don't find status quo

Re: [gentoo-dev] [rfc] Sane defaults for USE_PYTHON, patch to python eclass

2010-12-04 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 12/04/10 16:38, Thomas Sachau wrote: I think, the complete python code, behaviour and eclass is way too complicated to easily manage or even understand it. E.g. why do we need 2 active versions by default? If i set e.g. python-2.6 as default, i want everything to be installed for that

Re: [gentoo-dev] Stable Python stage repair thread

2010-12-03 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Sadly, it's not done yet. Please collect related bugs into this tracker: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=347639 Sebastian

[gentoo-dev] [Volunteers needed] Communicating use (and existence) of USE_PYTHON

2010-12-03 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Hello, to better communicate USE_PYTHON we could use: - a portage news entry - notifications from within ebuilds - a users guide counterpart of http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/Python/developersguide.xml - mentioning in 'man make.conf' This is overdue and has some urgency. Are you

Re: [gentoo-dev] [Volunteers needed] Communicating use (and existence) of USE_PYTHON

2010-12-03 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 12/03/10 12:50, Fabian Groffen wrote: On 03-12-2010 11:35:14 +0100, Sebastian Pipping wrote: to better communicate USE_PYTHON we could use: - a portage news entry why portage? I'm speaking of GLEP 42. No idea if pkgcore or paludis support these. That's why i said portage. http

Re: [gentoo-dev] [Volunteers needed] Communicating use (and existence) of USE_PYTHON

2010-12-03 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 12/03/10 13:05, Michał Górny wrote: The first question that comes into my mind is -- why do we need to communicate that? I think that USE_PYTHON is a pretty specific variable which should be used only if specially required (i.e. to keep multiple Python versions ready for use). What needs

Re: [gentoo-dev] [Volunteers needed] Communicating use (and existence) of USE_PYTHON

2010-12-03 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 12/03/10 13:23, Sebastian Pipping wrote: Good point. Still, as of now that's where to put USE_PYTHON. ^^^ referring to /etc/make.conf itself. I'm unsure if that's a reason strong enough to add it. ^^^ referring to the man page of 'make.conf'. Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-dev] [Volunteers needed] Communicating use (and existence) of USE_PYTHON

2010-12-03 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 12/03/10 14:16, Michał Górny wrote: Then the question would be -- if that version causes so much trouble and requires a careful re-consideration of upgrade schema, why didn't anyone mask it yet? I didn't dare to. Sebastian

[gentoo-dev] [rfc] Sane defaults for USE_PYTHON, patch to python eclass

2010-12-03 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Hello! Current situation = Without specifying USE_PYTHON in /etc/make.conf ebuilds based on the python eclass will install packages for no more ABIs than the two active versions on the 2.x and 3.x lines. To give an example: with Python 2.6, 2.7 and 3.1 installed and 2.7 set as

Re: [gentoo-dev] Stable Python stage repair thread

2010-12-03 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Hello! In the mean time I have sent the attached patch to people involved with building Gentoo stages. Before further taking action on/with that patch I am waiting for their response. I am now posting it here in order to let you know about this change in status and to give potentially

Re: [gentoo-dev] Disabling auto-bumping of active Python version

2010-12-01 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 12/01/10 05:02, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote: As Arfrever noted, this is likely the cause of the broken automated weekly stages for this past week. By not having a python symlink / wrapper, stages generation failed on stage2 run. Yes, a fellow dev already reported that issue to me. I

Re: [gentoo-dev] Stable Python stage repair thread

2010-12-01 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Hello, the proposed changes have been applied to all ebuilds of dev-lang/python in Gentoo's main tree as of now. So it's in CVS now, mirrors take longer. If you stumble upon problems with it please - file bugs with details - reply here, pointing to the bug NOTE: If you plan to explicitly

Re: [gentoo-dev] Python 2.7 status check?

2010-11-30 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 11/30/10 03:24, Zac Medico wrote: Yes, hopefully something like this will do it: pkg_preinst() { main_active_python=$(eselect python show) } pkg_postinst() { if [[ -n $main_active_python $main_active_python != $(eselect python show) ]] ; then

Re: [gentoo-dev] Python 2.7 status check?

2010-11-30 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Sebastian Pipping sebast...@pipping.org Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 17:52:55 +0100 Subject: [PATCH] dev-lang/python: Apply combined restoring (zmedico) and repair (arfrever) of active python version --- dev-lang/python/Manifest|2 +- dev-lang/python

Re: [gentoo-dev] Python 2.7 status check?

2010-11-30 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 11/29/10 16:47, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote: It wasn't any mistake. Please actually read that code: eselect_python_update() { if [[ -z $(eselect python show --python${PV%%.*}) ]]; then eselect python update --python${PV%%.*} fi } ${PV%%.*} == 2

Re: [gentoo-dev] Disabling auto-bumping of active Python version

2010-11-29 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 11/29/10 09:35, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote: There will probably be no active version of Python set. You had two weeks to come up with this. Please find my on IRC to team up on an agreed fix. Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-dev] Python 2.7 status check?

2010-11-29 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 11/29/10 02:35, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote: Sebastian Pipping recently removed automatic upgrade of active version of Python, so python-2.7.1.ebuild does not upgrade active version of Python. The ebuilds you just added for 2.7.1 and 3.1.3 do contain eselect_python_update

Re: [gentoo-dev] Python 2.7 status check?

2010-11-29 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 11/29/10 10:07, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote: On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 02:35, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis arfre...@gentoo.org wrote: Sebastian Pipping recently removed automatic upgrade of active version of Python, so python-2.7.1.ebuild does not upgrade active version of Python

Re: [gentoo-dev] Python 2.7 status check?

2010-11-29 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 11/29/10 10:30, Graham Murray wrote: Sorry, but on one of my ~x86 systems the installation of python-2.7.1 DID update the active python version to 2.7. Worse than that, now python-updater is running it is removing all of the usr/lib/python-2.6/site-packages/ files and for multi-version

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Disabling auto-bumping of active Python version

2010-11-29 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 11/29/10 13:10, Christian Faulhammer wrote: $ eselect python --help Manage Python symlinks Usage: eselect python action options [...] updateSwitch to the most recent CPython interpreter --if-unsetDo not override existing implementation --ignore SLOT

Re: [gentoo-dev] Python 2.7 status check?

2010-11-29 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 11/29/10 13:24, Paweł Hajdan, Jr. wrote: On 11/29/10 12:45 PM, Sebastian Pipping wrote: Sorry to hear. Please put a line like USE_PYTHON=2.6 2.7 3.1 into /etc/make.conf. It sounded like that's the versions you want. Is that documented anywhere? I couldn't find it easily

Re: [gentoo-dev] Python 2.7 status check?

2010-11-29 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 11/29/10 13:42, Markos Chandras wrote: *sigh*, Planet is not a place to inform users about these things. How about a -dev-announce or even better a news item. Do you expect everyone to read planet or ML? News item is such a wonderful feature. Please please please use it. I did not invent

Re: [gentoo-dev] Python 2.7 status check?

2010-11-29 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 11/29/10 16:37, Markos Chandras wrote: Revbump otherwise get ready for a series of bug reports from frustrated users I don't think this case qualifies for a revbump. The set of files produced is the same. The new revision offers nothing new to anyone having installed the previous revision.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Python 2.7 status check?

2010-11-29 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 11/29/10 16:47, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote: It wasn't any mistake. Please actually read that code: eselect_python_update() { if [[ -z $(eselect python show --python${PV%%.*}) ]]; then eselect python update --python${PV%%.*} fi } ${PV%%.*} == 2

Re: [gentoo-dev] Python 2.7 status check?

2010-11-29 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 11/29/10 17:31, Ulrich Mueller wrote: I guess it is triggered from pkg_postrm() of python-2.6.6-r1 which until two days ago unconditionally called the following eselect action: eselect python update --python2 So unless you had updated your python-2.6 during the last two days, the

Re: [gentoo-dev] Python 2.7 status check?

2010-11-29 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 11/29/10 18:33, Zac Medico wrote: You could also cancel it out, by checking the state in pkg_preinst and saving it in an environment variable so that you can restore it in pkg_postinst. Could you show a mockup of that? I'm not really sure how that would work. Would it work for pkg_postrm

Re: [gentoo-dev] Disabling auto-bumping of active Python version

2010-11-28 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 11/28/10 19:04, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote: You probably broke generation of stages :) . (I have restored a minimal version of eselect_python_update() in python overlay.) Could you elaborate on that, please? How did I break stages? Which stages? Future stage tarballs?

Re: [gentoo-portage-dev] portage docbook documentation - why not asciidoc ?

2010-11-27 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 11/27/10 13:27, Lionel Orry wrote: [Lionel] In fact you can customize the toc level with a 'toclevel' attribute on the command-line, see the Makefile. I did several tries but you can get the same level as the original doc with '-a toclevels=4' if I remember well. In short, it's not a

Re: [gentoo-dev] Cobra as a Python replacement for portage infra...

2010-11-23 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 11/23/10 11:43, Branko Badrljica wrote: I figured it still beats classic interpreter. Have you compared to optimized Python byte code, i.e. .pyo files? Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Change policy about live ebuilds

2010-11-23 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 11/23/10 02:46, Markos Chandras wrote: Thank you. Like the fellow devs said before, KEYWORDS are there to indicate whether a package works for an arch or not. Empty keywords simply means hey, this package is not tested in this arch which is the exact point of a live ebuild. However, p.mask

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Change policy about live ebuilds

2010-11-21 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Diego, On 11/21/10 15:29, Diego Elio Pettenò wrote: The reason why many of them are in p.mask is usually because _I_ added them there as they didn't mask with KEYWORDS=, and simply dropping keywords would have users angry. Why does KEYWORDS= on live ebuilds make users angry? Where can I

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: GCC 4.5 unmasking tomorrow

2010-11-21 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 11/21/10 08:47, Ryan Hill wrote: toolchain revbumps are expensive How expansive? More than a rebuild of GCC itself? Best, Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Change policy about live ebuilds

2010-11-21 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 11/21/10 17:27, Markos Chandras wrote: Where can I find the rest of this thread? Ehh, maybe on gentoo archives? http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_4934999b1188cf3ecc53fea784054afb.xml Is that what you are asking for? In a way, yes, thanks. Should have thought of looking there. I

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Change policy about live ebuilds

2010-11-21 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 11/21/10 20:30, Ryan Hill wrote: Actually not. Users are already familiar with the - concept so there is no point to add extra obstacles in their way. I am trying to find out corner cases where double masking makes sense. Otherwise it makes no sense to me. Actually the majority of users

Re: [gentoo-dev] Disabling auto-bumping of active Python version

2010-11-15 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 11/14/10 22:42, Florian Philipp wrote: Is there a chance to do the same for perl and perl-cleaner? I understand perl is not slotted at the moment and there are probably good technical reasons for not doing so but I still wanted to ask. :) I'm not sure if the Perl team is watching this

[gentoo-dev] Disabling auto-bumping of active Python version

2010-11-14 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Hello, thanks for your interest. This thread is not about Python 3.x in particular, in case you wonder. In this mail - Typical GCC update (for comparison) - Python 2.7 update simulation (and how it fails) - The scenario - What happens - How it happens - Conclusion

[gentoo-dev] app-portage/conf-update: new maintainer needed

2010-10-04 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Hey there, like etc-update and dispatch-conf _conf-update_ seems to be one of the more central tools in Gentoo. I have the impression that it is unmaintained because... - metadata.xml says maintainer-needed, and - upstream seems to be a single _retired_ Gentoo dev, only. There is lots of

[gentoo-dev] [rfc] Making a Makefile respect custom CFLAGS

2010-08-23 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Hello! I assume this Makefile to work with any non-GNU make: CFLAGS=`sdl-config --cflags` -Wall -Wextra LDFLAGS=`sdl-config --libs` OBJ=tron.o pixel.o .PHONY: clean run tron: $(OBJ) run: tron ./tron clean: rm -f *.o tron Now how would we fix this to respect

Re: [gentoo-dev] News item announcing as-needed (glep 42 stuff)

2010-07-26 Thread Sebastian Pipping
I like that one better. Both proposals leave a question open to me, though: Do I understand correctly that I could integrate the in-profile value with LDFLAGS=${LDFLAGS} foo bar in /etc/make.conf? Maybe that's something people want to do. If so maybe add a hint? Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-portage-dev] Google Summer of Code: Bash AST and grammar

2010-07-21 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 07/21/10 15:49, Nathan Eloe wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello portage developers My name is Nathan Eloe, and I'm working on a Google Summer of Code project in which I'm writing a library that will create an Abstract Syntax Tree of the bash grammar. In essence I am

Re: [gentoo-portage-dev] Google Summer of Code: Bash AST and grammar

2010-07-21 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 07/21/10 16:56, Sebastian Pipping wrote: A few things I haven't seen, yet: # Adjacent changes in quotation echo abc''def # Makes abcdef # Escape sequences like .. echo abc\def # Invocation from ibnside strings echo foo $(echo foo), bar `echo bar` # Heredocs (and their variations ..) cat

Re: [gentoo-dev] zlib ebuild from OSS-QM

2010-07-06 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Enrico, thanks for sharing your changes with us. I had a look at the diff as I was curious. While I may lacking understanding that the zlib maintainers in Gentoo do have, your changes look self-explaining to me. Maybe you could comment on the diff and explain your changes. Best, Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-dev] zlib ebuild from OSS-QM

2010-07-06 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 07/06/10 19:07, Sebastian Pipping wrote: Enrico, thanks for sharing your changes with us. I had a look at the diff as I was curious. While I may lacking understanding that the zlib maintainers in Gentoo do have, your changes look self-explaining to me. ^ do

Re: [gentoo-dev] zlib ebuild from OSS-QM

2010-07-06 Thread Sebastian Pipping
From: Sebastian Pipping sp...@gentoo.org To: Enrico Weigelt weig...@metux.de Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ beide 404, aber

Re: [gentoo-dev] Council manifesto of sping

2010-07-02 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Arun, On 07/02/10 16:23, Arun Raghavan wrote: The problem is not noise. The problem is that an issue that needs to be escalated to Devrel could not be resolved by the involved developers or the people who were present at the time. Moreover, there are strong emotions from the devs (and often

Re: [gentoo-dev] Council manifesto for jmbsvicetto

2010-06-29 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Hello Jorge, I stumbled upon this in the section on community related beliefs of yours: [T]he Gentoo community is made of its members and they are what they are. We have a mostly technical adult male community, including a few people with rough or challenging social skills. How do you

Re: [gentoo-dev] Council manifesto of sping

2010-06-29 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Arun, On 06/22/10 07:13, Arun Raghavan wrote: On reading again, you do have suggestions on how you would deal with most of what you've spoken. The only one that I think could use more details (other than all the references to tone which I think we should let rest for a while) is Opening up

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-commits] gentoo-x86 commit in dev-python/python-openid: python-openid-2.2.4.ebuild

2010-06-28 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Arfrever, On 06/28/10 22:26, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote: Is there any reason you are so non-verbose here? 'cvs log' or '$EDITOR ChangeLog' equally give us no information about your commit. You are making it hard on other devs in my opinion, I don't think intentionally, but

[gentoo-dev] Council manifesto of sping

2010-06-21 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Hello! My manifesto up here now: http://dev.gentoo.org/~sping/council-manifesto-2010-sping.txt Thanks for your vote! Best, Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-dev] Council manifesto of sping

2010-06-21 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Petteri, On 06/21/10 20:20, Petteri Räty wrote: My manifesto up here now: http://dev.gentoo.org/~sping/council-manifesto-2010-sping.txt - Building sites - Active Council - More direct democracy - New conflict resolution team (reforming DevRel) - Ownership and territories -

Re: [gentoo-dev] Council manifesto of sping

2010-06-21 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Arun, On 06/21/10 21:25, Arun Raghavan wrote: My manifesto up here now: http://dev.gentoo.org/~sping/council-manifesto-2010-sping.txt For all your points where you do not have a concrete proposal of how you intend to tackle the problem, could you please elaborate? please take your time to

Re: [gentoo-dev] Council manifesto of sping

2010-06-21 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 06/22/10 03:46, Brian Harring wrote: Your proposed solutions in your manifesto is to just throw out the manifest bits that need completion, in the process ignoring the infrastructural and security reasons for their existance. Same goes for ignoring the commit hooks chunk for rsync

Re: [gentoo-dev] Tone in Gentoo

2010-06-19 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Jorge, On 06/19/10 05:20, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote: you're confusing talk and jokes between developers on a particular private room with tone between members of the global community in public mediums. It wasn't #gentoo-roughshit, it was in #gentoo-infra - the place devs go on infra

Re: [gentoo-dev] Tone in Gentoo

2010-06-19 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Nirbheek, On 06/19/10 17:34, Nirbheek Chauhan wrote: No, really, flaming #gentoo-infra on the gentoo-dev mailing list is silly, useless *and* ironic (in this case). It's not about the infra team, it's about communication in the #gentoo-infra channel. All of silly, useless *and* ironic could

Re: [gentoo-dev] Tone in Gentoo

2010-06-19 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Jeremy, On 06/19/10 06:45, Jeremy Olexa wrote: On 06/18/2010 09:25 PM, Sebastian Pipping wrote: In #gentoo-infra snip #gentoo-infra is a private channel and you don't have to be in there. No public community members/users are in there. The tone can be anything that is acceptable

Re: [gentoo-dev] Tone in Gentoo

2010-06-19 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 06/19/10 08:43, Patrick Lauer wrote: Now that's tone in Gentoo. Brilliant. And you're ugly! Hey, you're doing it yourself. You're using sarcasm (I assume you do, otherwise the positive Brilliant. doesn't fit in the context of Oh dear, these rude people said that!) You got me.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Tone in Gentoo

2010-06-19 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Brian, On 06/19/10 11:37, Brian Harring wrote: and you do not go into someone's home and tell them what they can/cannot say. right. #gentoo-infra is not anybody's home though: it's an infra-matter channel of Gentoo. If you like to view it as anybody's home it's home of Gentoo and therefore

Re: [gentoo-dev] Tone in Gentoo

2010-06-19 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 06/19/10 19:50, Wulf C. Krueger wrote: If #gentoo-infra bangs their moms the rest of the community deserves to know. Oh? What do you do at night with your girlfriend (or boyfriend or yourself)? The community deserves to know! My point was about the style of communication in there, not

Re: [gentoo-dev] Tone in Gentoo

2010-06-19 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 06/19/10 19:59, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: This is a point that deserves more consideration. One of the top reasons (as witnessed in forum discussions) Unfortunately, that's selecting a rather biased audience. The success of a forum depends upon the number of active posters it has. The number

Re: [gentoo-dev] Tone in Gentoo

2010-06-19 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Ciaran, On 06/19/10 21:16, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: No, that's the nice thing about delivering a product based upon technical merit: most of the time, there are right answers and there are wrong answers, and careful investigation and good management can lead to it being determined which is

Re: [gentoo-dev] Tone in Gentoo

2010-06-18 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Hello. As some people seem to be interested in examples of out of the line tone in Gentoo I feel like sharing an example just happened a few minutes ago: In #gentoo-infra people are talking about banging each others moms right now. I was told this is normal in there. As I mentioned it's

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Tone in Gentoo

2010-06-18 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 06/18/10 05:43, Jeroen Roovers wrote: Hmm - thats interesting, I subconsciously read the two questions into the one posted. I accept you point. Its something I am likely to write myself without thinking about it too much too. Oh, this is a good one. Without introducing the problem, it

Re: [gentoo-dev] Tone in Gentoo

2010-06-17 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 06/17/10 05:24, Jeroen Roovers wrote: Well, apart from explaining technical stuff[1] as in the example above, we could obviously explain how our developers work, how much most of them get payed for doing that, inform users of our services what they can and cannot expect to get. It sounds a

Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo Council 2010/2011 - Nominations are now open

2010-06-17 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Hello! I would like to nominate phajdan.jr (Pawel Hajdan, Jr.). Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-dev] Tone in Gentoo

2010-06-17 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Ciaran, the mindset I hear in your mail sounds a lot more like (my understanding of) Exherbo than Gentoo. I would appreciate if you stayed on topic which is improving tone in Gentoo. Thanks. Best, Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-dev] Proposing fundamental changes to DevRel

2010-06-17 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Jorge, On 06/17/10 02:33, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote: 1) Make the list of subscribers to the devrel alias public I don't know what gave you the idea that the list of the Developer Relations project members is private. You can check the alias members directly by running grep devrel

Re: [gentoo-dev] Proposing fundamental changes to DevRel

2010-06-17 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Petteri, On 06/17/10 09:52, Petteri Räty wrote: Wrong mailing list. This thread belongs to gentoo-project. that's what I am referring to with tone in Gentoo. I want the other 80% of you on the council. In my opinion the DevRel topic is too important to hide it on a mailing list with a

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Proposing fundamental changes to DevRel

2010-06-17 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Duncan, On 06/17/10 09:56, Duncan wrote: DevRel is understaffed. I've seen observations to the effect that most developers aren't interested in getting involved in that area, particularly in reference to the conflict resolution subgroup when I offered to join DevRel last time in reply

Re: [gentoo-dev] Proposing fundamental changes to DevRel

2010-06-17 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Patrick, On 06/17/10 18:21, Patrick Lauer wrote: Now of course this will cause friction. I've noticed it especially with germanic and slavic languages that are more terse than english. For example Sit down! is acceptable in all situations in german, maybe acceptable, sure not polite or

Re: [gentoo-dev] Proposing fundamental changes to DevRel

2010-06-17 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Petteri, On 06/17/10 17:45, Petteri Räty wrote: We communicate in English but that doesn't mean we all the same cultural background. My native language doesn't do small talk and doesn't have a word for please. Of course when writing English I try use please when required by the other party

Re: [gentoo-dev] Proposing fundamental changes to DevRel

2010-06-17 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 06/17/10 16:37, Sebastian Pipping wrote: I don't know what gave you the idea that the list of the Developer Relations project members is private. Also, Willinks reports the alias to be empty, unlike with other aliases: [00:44] sping expn devrel [00:44] willikins devrel = A question

Re: [gentoo-dev] Tone in Gentoo

2010-06-16 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 06/16/10 07:43, Jeroen Roovers wrote: That's a conclusion first, then a premise? Tone is not a strength of Gentoo is my own obserservation. Please be more verbose - I fail to understand the core of your question. - How come tone is so rough when we actually meant to be a friendly

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Tone in Gentoo

2010-06-16 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Roy, On 06/16/10 21:40, Roy Bamford wrote: As a native English speaker (from England) I view Jers reply as terse and to the point, completely lacking in tone. interesting. Looking at the sentence When did you point this out to devrel? I would like to say that while it's not impolite per

Re: [gentoo-dev] Tone in Gentoo

2010-06-16 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Angelo, On 06/16/10 19:07, Angelo Arrifano wrote: I've seen some bugs [sorry no references right now] where some developers point out facts in a *very* aggressive way. bug replies, yes! I remember replies like you obviously have no clue how xzz works from developer to developer on a bug

Re: [gentoo-dev] Tone in Gentoo

2010-06-16 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Pawel, On 06/16/10 18:39, Paweł Hajdan, Jr. wrote: I have searched a few places for rules on tone, I believe one can't solve this problem by using rules. any ideas what could help? We need leadership. I remember very well when the leader of one of the Gentoo projects I participate in

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Tone in Gentoo

2010-06-16 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Nikos, thanks for speaking up on this matter. I encourage more Gentoo users to make them heard with this. Best, Sebastian

[gentoo-dev] Proposing fundamental changes to DevRel

2010-06-16 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Hello! yngwin's devaway message still reads inactive, pending resolution of devrel issue. yngwin retired. I woudn't go as far as saying that his case made him retire but I definitely say that _DevRel failed on his case_. I believe I had enough insight to be able to say. I would like to

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Tone in Gentoo

2010-06-16 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Jeroen, On 06/16/10 21:31, Jeroen Roovers wrote: 1) that there are probably some good examples of the bad tone that sping referred to, perhaps in the devrel/userrel domain and therefore not initially public, and that unless those projects fail (to uphold the CoC), we should probably not be

Re: [gentoo-dev] Tone in Gentoo

2010-06-16 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Jorge, On 06/17/10 02:01, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote: There was a mostly silent agreement between some teams, including DevRel, UserRel, Council and Trustees, that after the Proctors project was terminated, the enforcement of the CoC, including any moderation or banning actions, would

Re: [gentoo-dev] Tone in Gentoo

2010-06-16 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Jorge, On 06/17/10 02:14, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote: Sebastian, I understand your concern, but as Alec puts it, we have gone a long way since the 2007-2008 low regarding this type of behaviour. I'm not advocating that communication in Gentoo mediums has become perfect, but I don't see

[gentoo-dev] Tone in Gentoo

2010-06-15 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Hello! Tone is currently not a strength of Gentoo. As I have heard there are people not joining Gentoo because the atmosphere in Gentoo is lacking respect and empathy. I have searched a few places for rules on tone, looking at the Gentoo Social Contract [1], the Code of Conduct [2] and the

[gentoo-dev] The mis-concept of slacking in Gentoo

2010-06-15 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Hello! When you are active in Gentoo during one week and less active during the next it may happen that people (sometimes jokingly) call you a slacker. This pattern seems to have become common enough that people even started calling themselves slackers when they are less active than potentially

Re: [gentoo-dev] Moving unmaintained packages to Sunrise

2010-06-13 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 06/13/10 16:26, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote: If we want to find a way to not drop the maintainer-needed packages, I'd prefer we move them to sunset and not to sunrise. Agreed. If there is a user-maintainer move to sunrise, if there isn't move to sunset. As this overlay is likely to

Re: [gentoo-dev] Actions of python team, especially Arfrever wrt python eclass and python-3*

2010-06-05 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Thomas, Arfrever, the way this discussion currently works does not look fruitful to me. Questions I would like to raise: - How come you don't agree on facts? - Is this about processes or results? - Have you tried to understand the other side's problem? - Could you try a

Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo Council 2010/2011 - Nominations are now open

2010-06-05 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 06/05/10 16:36, Alex Legler wrote: Chainsaw, Fauli and sping please. Thanks. I accept nomination. Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-dev] Actions of python team, especially Arfrever wrt python eclass and python-3*

2010-06-05 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Thomas, On 06/06/10 01:04, Thomas Sachau wrote: Every slot and every version *should* satisfy a dev-lang/python dependency, but currently such unspecified version dependency does automaticly pull in the latest version/slot, which in case of python does mean python-3*, even when you have

Re: [gentoo-dev] Actions of python team, especially Arfrever wrt python eclass and python-3*

2010-06-05 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Thomas, On 06/06/10 04:01, Thomas Sachau wrote: [..] so even if it is not pulled in during installation, it will be pulled in during world update. sounds right. Preventing this requires either masking or a dont-pull-uninstalled-slots switch for portage (which I am not suggesting), right?

Re: [gentoo-dev] [Gentoo Phoenix] an official Gentoo wiki

2010-06-03 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Tobias, On 06/04/10 05:53, Tobias Scherbaum wrote: I wasn't able to attend that meeting, as i noticed it just a day or two before. From then on ... I heard just nothing wrt the Wiki project. Have you contacted people who took part in the meeting asking for details and results? Sebastian

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