[geo] Re: Sea Ice

Peter and list: Two questions: a. Was there anything on your ideas below in either AR5 or the NCA? I have not yet read all of either, but have read all I could find in each on geoengineering. Your concepts below don't fit nicely into the SRM and CDR camps, but would still s

[geo] RE: Sea Ice

Ron, Thanks for these comments. I’ll start with sea ice extent. It is important to realize that there are two effects going on when one makes sea ice. The first is the transfer of heat the atmosphere, which would lead to increased radiation into space, all other things being equal. This takes

[geo] Re: Sea Ice

Greg, Ron, Peter, Geo-group The technology proposed by Zhou and Flynn [1]to “*re-ice the Arctic*” during the winter uses snow cannons powered by wind turbin

Re: [geo] Re: Sea Ice

I¹m a bit baffled (and late in responding. The sea water temperatures are typically very near freezing. The idea might work in the fall but I don¹t see how it works the rest of the year (ocean temperatures too near freezing in the winter; air temperatures too high in spring and summer). Mike On

Re: [geo] Re: Sea Ice

but I understand that Canadians have to do this every winter morning to start their cars so it is not a show stopper. Stephen On 22/05/2014 15:46, Mike MacCracken wrote: Re: [geo] Re: Sea Ice I'm a bit baffled (and late in responding. The sea water temperatures are typically very near fre

RE: [geo] Re: Sea Ice

Re: [geo] Re: Sea Ice Stephen is right on three counts: water flows a great distance before freezing even at very cold ambient temperatures, northerners have long experience of both keeping water flowing and dealing with frozen pipes, and frozen pipes are readily thawed in the presence of

[geo] Re: Sea ice: beware of hype, uncertainty cut's both ways

Also please see http://blogs.reuters.com/environment/2009/10/30/panic-at-2-am-the-search-for -multiyear-arctic-ice/ Ice cover is not the only issue--ice thickness also matters for it takes an extensive, pretty solid (i.e., very small or no leads) ice cover about a meter thick or more (with a bit

[geo] Re: Sea ice: beware of hype, uncertainty cut's both ways

Thank you, David, for your thoughtful reply and the excellent points you make, which culminate in an acknowledgement of the argument for albedo geoengineering to save the Arctic sea ice, as I have been proposing.  Your support is most welcome. Re your point 1, the proposal does not assume a p

[geo] Re: Sea ice: beware of hype, uncertainty cut's both ways

...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Nissen Sent: November 2, 2009 4:10 PM To: David Keith Cc: climateintervent...@googlegroups.com; geoengineering@googlegroups.com; Ken Caldeira; Julian Norman; Mike MacCracken Subject: [geo] Re: Sea ice: beware of hype, uncertainty cut's both ways

[geo] Re: SEA ICE LOSS STUNS SCIENTISTS - open letter to John Holdren

Dear Ron, The letter argues that geoengineering is now our only hope - our only option to avoid sea ice disappearance and the possibility of catastrophic methane release - since only geoengineering can act quickly enough to cool the Arctic.  Procrastination will reduce chances of success, as

[geo] Re: SEA ICE LOSS STUNS SCIENTISTS - open letter to John Holdren

Dear all, I have tried to summarise the arguments various people have made for not supporting the letter, listing six main issues below. If this letter is successful in drawing the attention of John Holdren, then one would expect him to refer to the experts in various areas to check out the

[geo] Re: SEA ICE LOSS STUNS SCIENTISTS - open letter to John Holdren

Hi - Tim Lenton is a great thinker and writer, but I imagine he might be the first one to say that arctic methane escape has not been his own area of expertise, and that more recent research such as the International Siberian Shelf Sudy (Gustafsson et al, 2008) or that of Shakhova, such as in Geop

Re: [geo] Re: SEA ICE LOSS STUNS SCIENTISTS - open letter to John Holdren

On 13/07/10 23:43, John Nissen wrote: Dear Ron, The letter argues that geoengineering is now our only hope - our only option to avoid sea ice disappearance and the possibility of catastrophic methane release - since only geoengineering can act quickly enough to cool the Arctic. Procrastinat

Re: [geo] Re: SEA ICE LOSS STUNS SCIENTISTS - open letter to John Holdren

Two comments on the letter proposal... 1. "Only a few scientists predicted this event for the coming decade, and they were ridiculed". This sour grapes statement does not strengthen a case for geoengineering. Then 'many more' scientists now agree with the more severe assessment -- that implie

Re: [geo] Re: SEA ICE LOSS STUNS SCIENTISTS - open letter to John Holdren

On 14/07/10 20:59, Glyn Roberts wrote: 2. I think the tone of the request should be explicitly to urgently *prepare* a SRM deployment capability, not for its ASAP deployment as implied. Deployment would be a second gate. We will lose precious time to develop a viable system if we try to pass th

Re: [geo] Re: SEA ICE LOSS STUNS SCIENTISTS - open letter to John Holdren

It's impossible to *prove* S = 1. In fact, coaxing the Earth out to a higher orbit might work, but that's not something we could conceivably do. Meanwhile an undiscovered 'practical solution' doesn't help us, and there are probably a lot of people scratching their heads looking for one. I'm not

Re: [geo] Re: SEA ICE LOSS STUNS SCIENTISTS - open letter to John Holdren

You say "The Arctic warming is now accelerating, and we can expect permafrost to release large quantities of methane, from as early as 2011 onwards, which will lead inexorably to runaway greenhouse warming and abrupt climate change." However in a 2007 review of scientific papers [1] it concluded t

Re: [geo] Re: SEA ICE LOSS STUNS SCIENTISTS - open letter to John Holdren

Hi All Did Glyn miss Boucher and Folberth, Atmospheric Environment 44 (2010) 3343–3345 which Ken circulated earlier this week? Is the track record of prediction accuracy of climate scientists high enough for us to bet the planet on them always being correct? The best ones that I know are n

Re: [geo] Re: SEA ICE LOSS STUNS SCIENTISTS - open letter to John Holdren

The article you/Ken cited is about methane capture. It is not a research paper supporting the statement "we can expect permafrost to release large quantities of methane, from as early as 2011 onwards" I don't understand your use of the word arrogant. The danger of climate change may exceed the s

Re: [geo] Re: SEA ICE LOSS STUNS SCIENTISTS - open letter to John Holdren

Time for a reality check. It has been the slowest July Arctic melt in the eight year JAXA record . Ice extent has declined at less than half the rate of 2007, and

Re: [geo] Re: SEA ICE LOSS STUNS SCIENTISTS - open letter to John Holdren

Arctic sea ice heading for new record low "In April, the centre published data showing that sea ice had almost recovered to the 20-year average. That ignited a flurry of interest on climate change skeptic blogs. But much of that ice was thin and new. The warmest April on record in the Arctic made