http://www.telegraphindia.com/1130911/jsp/opinion/story_17335910.jsp#.UjAbLj9sikQ
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The more the merrier
The movement to get Dalit Christians into the Scheduled Castes net has
gained momentum. V. Kumara Swamy looks at both sides of the debate
If Hindu Dalits can get the manifold advantages of a
augusto pinto wrote:
> Some may be more affected by it and for others it may be something that is
> not quite in the foreground of one's consciousness, but deep down somewhere
> that Hinduness or Muslimness or whatever one's identity was prior to
> conversion is still part of our cultural make up.
Sebastian Borges wrote:
> To my mind, Casteism, like Atheism, is an attitude of the mind.
Sebastian Borges,
The way I see it, to be an atheist one has to make tough decisions and jettison
all that has been fed since s/he was born. A believer in the cast system can
only remain so if s/he does n
In Message: 2 - Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2013 18:34:34 -0700 (PDT)
Mervyn Lobo wrote:
"My question, and this is to any brave heart here, is:
Does a person still retain his/her caste when s/he becomes an atheist? ?
Or does one remain a cultural Hindu forever."
Dear Mervyn,
One does not need to be
Dear Merwyn,
I know that in
order to become a Christian one gets him/herself baptized. In order to become a
Hindu too one goes through certain ceremonies. (I don’t know what they are, but
have read that people who have "reconverted" to Hinduism have gone
through some such ceremonies.) So, how does
Sebastian Borges wrote:
>Under the article by Fr. Izzo, I found the following
>comment by one Fr. Iruthayaraj Thusnevish: "I am a
>dalit catholic priest here in south India. Whatever has been said about dalit
>in this article is true. I am myself going through such painful situations as a
>priest.
Dear
Marshall,
I
must thank you for your intervention. This encounter has widened my horizons. I
have come to realise that the abomination of caste as practised by Goan
Catholics is nothing compared to the tribulations suffered by their
counterparts in Southern India. These are some of the illus
Sebastian Borges wrote:
4. Do you know that for the last few years the parish priests have been trying
to demolish this caste barrier between the confrarias, but the Carambolim
zonkars (your clan) are opposing the move?
5. Do you know that a couple of years ago, during St. Francis Xavier Novena
On Sep 3, 2013, at 3:48 AM, Sebastian Borges asked several questions of jc
Prof Borges questions (SB); jc's answers (jc)
SB1. Have you ever lived in Velim, Goa?
jc1: IF visiting during monsoon holidays and around Christmas = 'lived' ...the
answer is YES
==
SB2. Have you attended the Velim chur
Once again, I apologize for not being able to do anything about gratuitous
rhetoric in posts like the one appended below. But I am happy to provide
further evidence for the following points of interest to me, that contradict
all of the speculations and insinuations made by the poster below about
Dear Mr Borges
1. As I understand it ( I am willing to be corrected if I am wrong), the
Bible contains the tenets of Christianity, the teachings of Jesus Christ.
These teachings were not region, colour, race or gender specific but is
applicable to all across the board. Those who call themselves fo
On 2 Sep 2013 "J. Colaco < jc>" wrote:
Having lived and studied in Poona, I can say that I KNOW about Poona.
I can safely state that I did NOT know about "caste" among the Poona Goan
Catholics.
I agree absolutely with Marshall.
I am sure that Marshall will agree with me that our school St.
Replying to the following, Marshall Mendonza wrote:
> Mervyn Lobo:
> There is no casteism in the Bible. Caste, in Indian Christianity, is a
> purely Hindu hangover. Anyone who practices it, cannot be a follower of
> Christ.
Marshall Mendonza's Response:
>> I knew an intelligent person like you w
On 2 September 2013 08:02, Sebastian Borges wrote:
'Dear Marshall, I do not know about Poona, but I cannot agree with you
that there is no casteism among Goan Christians in Bombay'
COMMENT:
Having lived and studied in Poona, I can say that I KNOW about Poona.
I can safely state that I did NOT
Response;
1.If the poster chooses to live in denial of the evidence furnished by me
in the documents provided by Prof Borges just because they are unpalatable
to him and do not support his views, there is nothing more we can do about
it. He is free to live in his world of dreams and fantasy. Who a
Mervyn Lobo:
There is no casteism in the Bible. Caste, in Indian Christianity, is a
purely Hindu hangover. Anyone who practices it, cannot be a follower of
Christ.
Response:
I knew an intelligent person like you would have understood the message.
Only two corrections need to be made in your abov
Dear Marshall,
I do not know about Poona, but I cannot agree with you
that there is no casteism among Goan Christians in Bombay. I have lived in
Bombay among Goans hailing from all parts of Goa at the Goan Society Bldg.,
Chira Bazar.
Your challenge that I should show you one sentence in the
Bible t
Can someone please elaborate what is "Mull ani Bull" all about, how is this
subjectline relevant to the issue being debated, and who brought about this
subjectline to the debate?
Sebastian Borges wrote:
>
>My thanks to Santosh for the very informative links; they widened the horizons
>of an ill-read person like me.
>
Dear Prof. Borges,
I too appreciate your input and perspective on this issue, which I think are
more valuable than mine. I am not sure if you are intereste
Sebastian Borges wrote:
This means that casteism is rampant in the Catholic Church even outside Goa.
The Dalit Archbishop proved his predecessor wrong by living up to the trust
reposed in him by the Holy See with a highly distinguished
tenure until his sad demise in 2010.
Gilbert Lawrence r
Dear Prof Borges
I am in total agreement with you when you state that casteism is practised
in the Church in certain parts of India. So far as Tamil Nadu is concerned
I have heard about it first hand from priests and nuns who have worked
there as from the media. So far as Goa Is concerned, I admit
Jose Colaco wrote:
> 1: Request my good friend Mervyn, to please clarify what he means by "huge
> factor in the peculiar type of Christianity as practiced". Please specify
> what they allegedly PRACTICE.
-snip-
> 7: Those Goans who practice discrimination based on their alleged ancestral
> pre
Marshall Mendonza wrote:
> I trust you understand the difference between there is no caste in
> Christianity and certain christians practising casteism. If not, please
> refer to the Bible.
Marshall,
I am going to give you the benefit of doubt and assume that you sent the above
as a joke.
If
Marshall Mendonza wrote:
Fr Jerome's statement that there is no caste in Christianity is factual.
Mervyn Lobo writes:
I am based in Toronto, Canada. I am not sure where you are based but I can
assure you that caste is a huge factor in the peculiar type of Christianity as
practiced by Goans. Just
Mervyn Lobo wrote:
'I am based in Toronto, Canada. I can assure you that caste is a huge factor in
the peculiar type of Christianity as practiced by Goans.
.. caste and Christianity go hand in glove in India.'
COMMENT:
1: Request my good friend Mervyn, to please clarify what he means by "
I am sorry I cannot do anything about the fact that the respondent below
continues to engage in rhetoric and insults.
I am interested in knowing how the constitutional notion of Scheduled Castes
and tribes came into being in Indian history. In response to the said
respondent's prior rhetorical
My
thanks to Santosh for the very informative links; they widened the horizons of
an ill-read person like me. Some twelve years ago I had attended a camp on
"Dalit Issues" at the Ecumenical Centre, Bangalore. The participants were
mainly Dalit pastors and seminarians belonging to different Ch
Mervyn Lobo:
I am based in Toronto, Canada. I am not sure where you are based but I can
assure you that caste is a huge factor in the peculiar type of Christianity
as practiced by Goans. Just in case, just in case you are not aware of it,
here is a link that will update you, with every agonizing d
Marshall Mendonza wrote:
> 2. Fr Jerome's statement that there is no caste in Christianity is factual.
Marshall,
I am based in Toronto, Canada. I am not sure where you are based but I can
assure you that caste is a huge factor in the peculiar type of Christianity as
practiced by Goans. Just in
Response:
While ignoring the usual bird brained and juvenile opening remarks which we
have now got accustomed to, I will focus on the more substantive issues.
I found the rest of the below post quite interesting. However, there do not
address the statement made by Prof Borges. and there are severa
Now that Prof, Borges has presented some of the facts on this issue, let me
tell you why I know that he is on solid ground in his assertions about
Christian members of the Indian Constituent Assembly. While doing this let me
also provide evidence on the issue of impulsive rhetoric and lack of ba
I have now had time to peruse and read through the 2 documents attached to
Prof Borges' post. I must admit that I am terribly disappointed.
The entire debate from start to end is all about ending communal
representation in the legislatures and Parliament. Nowhere, I repeat,
nowhere is there any me
Thank you Prof Borges for your very informative post and the weblinks. I
shall go through the information in detail over the week-end and come back
with a detailed response. In the meanwhile, here is my prima facie response:
1. Apparently, Prof Borges is confusing reservation of seats in Parliamen
Further to my last posting on this subject, as far as my knowledge and
information goes, dalits of all religions were granted reservations and
benefits by the government from 1937 onwards due to their social and
economic diabilities.
This Act was overturned in 1950, under the influence of hindutva
There
were a few Christian members in the Constituent Assembly. Prominent among
these were Dr. H.C. Mookherjee (W. Bengal), Mr. Joseph Alban D'Souza (Bombay)
and
Rev. Jerome D'Souza SJ (Madras). It is
difficult to guess whether Mookherjee, being a Protestant from Bengal, was
acquainted with caste
I am sure Prof. Borges will provide the facts on the main issue of this thread.
But on the peripheral issues of balance and rhetorics, I have to say that
neither of the respondents below have ever shown any propensity for balance,
especially when it comes to sectarian matters. This is evident ev
REPLY: Well put my man, let's await the response! I too did not see any
rhetorics from your end. I too concur that you are well read and well
informed and more importantly, very well balanced indeed. There was no bird
brained output from you.
On 28 August 2013 14:08, Marshall Mendonza wrote:
>
Santosh Helekar:
I have enjoyed the discussions between Prof. Borges and others. What is
especially rewarding to me is that they have relied on historical facts,
common sense and reason. Driven by an unshakable bad habit, I have silently
fact-checked all of the professor's assertions. It has been
I have enjoyed the discussions between Prof. Borges and others. What is
especially rewarding to me is that they have relied on historical facts, common
sense and reason. Driven by an unshakable bad habit, I have silently
fact-checked all of the professor's assertions. It has been a fun experienc
Sebastian Borges:
As far as "special privileges by way of Reservations" is concerned,
let us not forget that an injustice was done to Christian dalits by
the makers of the Constitution of India under the influence of the
Christian members of the Constituent assembly who claimed that caste
discrimi
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