Re: GNU maintainership update

Congrats, Branden! [1] https://xkcd.com/149/ Fixed that for you: [image: sandwich.png] On Sat, 31 Aug 2024 at 08:26, G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi folks, > > Bertrand and I have heard back from the GNU maintainers team. As of > yesterday, they have offere

Unicode support for Troff-specific symbols

In Unicode 13.0, a new block was added to support graphical symbols used on legacy systems,[1] particularly those represented by obscure character encodings (like ATASCII ).[2] I'm wondering if

Re: [PATCH] nextup.3: minor improvements

y with the existing *"+0 or -0"* language is probably the best fallback. Regards, — John On Fri, 9 Aug 2024 at 19:25, Vincent Lefevre wrote: > On 2024-08-09 15:53:30 +1000, John Gardner wrote: > > Hi Vincent, > > > > > So ideally, the fallback for "ą0" s

Re: [PATCH] nextup.3: minor improvements

Hi Branden, Numeric expressions are already valid conditional expressions, so all we'd > need here is a syntax for interpolating an output device parameter. […] As > it happens, `\T` is *not* yet taken. True, but for fields that have lengthy values, it might help to have a syntax for testing the

Re: [PATCH] nextup.3: minor improvements

this niche, we may as well go all the way. Regards, — John On Fri, 9 Aug 2024 at 16:19, G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi John, > > At 2024-08-09T15:53:30+1000, John Gardner wrote: > > Hi Vincent, > > Not to horn in, but I think I'm

Re: [PATCH] nextup.3: minor improvements

Hi Vincent, So ideally, the fallback for "±0" should be "+0 or -0", which is > much more readable and less ambiguous than "+-0" or "+/-0". For approximating ± in ASCII, is there some reason \z_+0 hasn't been considered? I'm asking earnestly, as I'm primed to assume overstriking hacks have alrea

Re: An exercise for the brain(-software) (bug #65474)

Well I clearly failed said exercise, because my brain has no idea what the hell it just read. On Thu, 4 Apr 2024 at 08:48, Bjarni Ingi Gislason wrote: > Give more people a chance to see, think and learn. > > The following is from the groff bug report #65474 > > spurious "warning: unbalanced

Re: The chat bots have come for groff users

… ugh… Stack Exchange is dead. There is no future, only underwhelming AI gibberish and inevitable model collapse. On Wed, 28 Feb 2024 at 08:27, G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote: > At 2024-02-28T07:30:37+1100, John Gardner wrote: > > > Terminals support onl

Re: Macro package loading best practices

ages do look to see if they’ve already been invoked before > > running through the whole shebang again. > > > > In the case of those of us who have specialized[2] -ms, it would make > > even more sense to use .mso instead of the command line “option.” > > Our modifi

Re: Macro package loading best practices

I tend to begin my documents with the following comment, designed to illustrate for the author what macro packages are used by the document, which preprocessors are needed, etc: .\" uses: -mpdfmark -man -rLL=80 tbl pic eqn I opt for a *descriptive* directive instead of a *prescriptive* one ("uses

Re: The chat bots have come for groff users

> > Terminals support only four font names: R, I, B, and BI; the *grotty*(1) > man page says more. Attempting to select any other font name will fail; > like much else in Unix, *roff font names are case-sensitive. *groff* > 1.23.0 started issuing diagnostics upon font selection failure in many more

Re: Proposed: simplify `mso` request

Hi Branden, Wouldn't this conflict with behaviour documented in groff_tmac(5)? From the section *"Inclusion"* (emphasis mine): GNU troff offers an improved feature in the similar request “*mso* > *package-file-name*”, which searches the macro path for > *package-file-name*. Because its argument i

Re: [TUHS] Re: Original print of V7 manual? / My own version of troff

have, the merrier. As for the scan that Branden and I were referring to, I've uploaded a copy to Dropbox <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/xdkq15am4zon6uosbk0m9/CSTR_54_1976.pdf?rlkey=edu8ftqj33klr6lpjcrjlpdxm&dl=0> for you. Cheers, — John On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 at 18:00, Mychaela Falconia

Re: Proposed: make \X read its argument in copy mode

> > This assumes you know both the desired font and the desired colour, which > might be defined at other places in the document and not under your control. Yeah, I know. I was trying to gauge how Groff's escape sequences might benefit an \X'…' sequence, and the PostScript I gave was a contrived

Re: [TUHS] Re: Original print of V7 manual? / My own version of troff

> https://usenet.trashworldnews.com/?thread=614089 posted February 1988 > Perl Kit, Version 1.0, Copyright (c) 1987, Larry Wall Excuse my Roff,[1] but holy f\*(&#g shit. Is this where it all started? Did one of my favourite programming languages begin with this very newsgroup post? D—amn. Thanks f

Re: [TUHS] Re: Original print of V7 manual? / My own version of troff

! — John On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 at 01:08, G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi John, > > At 2024-01-18T00:43:41+1100, John Gardner wrote: > > I'm a professional graphic designer with access to commercial typeface > > authoring software. Send

Re: [TUHS] Re: Original print of V7 manual? / My own version of troff

l get to work. *John Gardner wrote yet another [cat2dit] but it's in JavaScript so not > maximally convenient for a Unix command line grognard.* Thanks for reminding me, Branden. :) I've yet to get V7 Unix working with the latest release of SimH, so that's kind of stalled my abil

Re: Proposed: make \X read its argument in copy mode

Hi Branden, So instead of: > \X'ps: \fB\s(12\m[red]big bold red text in my device command\fP' > > one would write: > \fB\s(12\m[red]\X'ps: big bold red text in my device command'\fP I believe you meant to provide an example more like this? \X'ps: exec 1.0 0 0 setrgbcolor /Times-Bold findfont \n

Re: missing -Tpdf (and the curious case of mandoc_roff(7))

> > I wonder why mandoc didn't just call its roff(7) page mandoc(7), given > that it parallels groff(7) more than anything else. > Strictly speaking, Groff is at fault here; the manual page dedicated to the Roff language proper should have been named as such, whereas groff(1) pertains to an execut

Re: missing -Tpdf (and the curious case of mandoc_roff(7))

G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote: > At 2023-07-30T09:35:28+1000, John Gardner wrote: > [I wrote:] > > > I wonder why mandoc didn't just call its roff(7) page mandoc(7), given > > > that it parallels groff(7) more than anything else. > > &g

Re: a morsel of groff 1.23.0 status

Bravo to everybody involved!! Seriously, I can't express just how good it feels to see a long-awaited release finally be published to the world. :) On Thu, 6 July 2023, 8:12 am G. Branden Robinson, < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote: > At 2023-07-05T23:31:54+0200, Bertrand Garrigues wrote: >

Re: notice: intent to diganose use of 'Df'

uture release"* so it sounds less like an imminent or planned removal. Apart from that, I wholeheartedly endorse making deprecation warnings more obvious and noticeable by users. On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 at 21:39, G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi John, &

Re: notice: intent to kill off 'Df'

Hi Branden, Support for 'f' may disappear in the next release, producing an error > diagnostic regarding an unrecognized command. > This doesn't sit right with me. Removing an obsolete feature to encourage adoption of a newer one runs counter to Groff's normative handling of legacy features—a man

Re: Mission statement and Knuth-Plass reconsidered

24 May 2023 at 09:57, Deri wrote: > On Tuesday, 23 May 2023 23:49:05 BST John Gardner wrote: > > The embedded typeface (both in the original PDF and Deri's version) are > > encoded in Type 1 format. Given the constraints of that particular font > > format, it wouldn'

Re: A new ignoramus question about user-installed fonts

Hi Oliver, > message by GhostScript: Can't embed the complete font DFSongStd as it is > too large, embedding a subset > PostScript provides a dedicated resource-type for exactly this: a CID-keyed font (PLRM § 5.11

Re: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4

> > Yes. Though it contains device-dependent troff output. :-) > Aye, but most folks would find that less confusing than a format named after a fish … ;-) > The ‘dit’ suffix is probably what I've seen the most. > Same, although I personally prefer to use

Re: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4

Hi Branden, > I know I will be mightily tempted to encourage others to adopt the > practice, in large part because "device-independent [gt]roff] output" is > far too long to type or speak repeatedly. I've always just called it "ditroff" (*"device-independent troff [output]"*), with *.dit and *.

Re: [Optional] versus parameters

; Hi John, > > I think I can speak to this. > > At 2023-02-22T16:24:33+1100, John Gardner wrote: > > What's the recommended convention for marking up *required* arguments? > > Square brackets indicate optional arguments more often than not, and > > something like

[Optional] versus parameters

What's the recommended convention for marking up *required* arguments? Square brackets indicate optional arguments more often than not, and something like this is ambiguous to readers: *upgrade* | *update* *package* This could be interpreted in two different ways (expressed using BNF): := ("upg

Re: groff 1.23.0.rc3 available for testing

ortlog --summary --email 1.22.4..1.23.0.rc3 > 14 Bertrand Garrigues > 14 Bjarni Ingi Gislason > 6 Colin Watson > 1 Cynthia A. E. Livingston > 1 Damian McGuckin > 30 Dave Kemper > 28 Deri James > 2 Dorai Sitaram > 1 Ed

Re: rc3: groff man pages truncated by mandoc(1)

Hi Branden, > If I could do something like the following: > > .if \n[.mandoc] .als MR IR > To determine if mandoc(1) is being used to format the current page, use .if \n(.f=0 This is what Mono.tmac uses

Re: A version of fmt for troff files

> > https://en.roquesor.com/Downloads/fmtroff.c > Missed opportunity to call it "roffmt". ;-) Anyway, I fed the program a macro package with the -n switch passed, and it... basically mangled the entire file. I take it that fmtroff is only designed to format prose, rather than Roff code (macros, e

Re: macOS Terminal man page URL format

which is why I suggested they be *un*set before running the tests. You may have misread what I wrote… ;-) — J On Thu, 16 Feb 2023 at 15:44, G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote: > At 2023-02-16T15:34:57+1100, John Gardner wrote: > > > ...wait. Did you configure yo

Re: macOS Terminal man page URL format

e running the tests, which is How I'd Do It™. On Thu, 16 Feb 2023 at 15:30, G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi John, > > At 2023-02-16T15:09:06+1100, John Gardner wrote: > > Many thanks. All but one of the tests are passing now, which is the

Re: macOS Terminal man page URL format

anual foo(1) 1010 groff test suite 2022-06-07 foo(1) checking that SB macro uses correct input trap 'it' ...FAILED foo(1) General Commands Manual foo(1) B10R10 groff test suite 2022-06-07 foo(1) — John On Tue, 14 Feb 2023 at 13:59, G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com

Re: "make check" failing on macOS (was: macOS Terminal man page URL format)

@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi John, > > At 2023-02-11T10:19:08+1100, John Gardner wrote: > > Yes, it builds successfully now (macOS 12.6.3). I ran `make install` > > and the installed Groff seems to be working perfectly. > > Excellent! > > > However, when I ran `make ch

Re: macOS Terminal man page URL format

Ls). It's theoretically possible to register a different app, although the procedure appears complicated (and I've yet to read up on it myself: it's on my to-do list under *"Weaponise lsappinfo(8)"*). On Tue, 7 Feb 2023 at 08:03, G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.c

Re: macOS Terminal man page URL format

y on macOS… On Tue, 7 Feb 2023 at 06:55, G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi John, > > At 2023-02-07T06:26:22+1100, John Gardner wrote: > > Then how about a callback? It could be called with the relevant > > parameters, and authors can use plain

Re: macOS Terminal man page URL format

e… On Tue, 7 Feb 2023 at 05:36, G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi John, > > At 2023-02-06T18:53:10+1100, John Gardner wrote: > > While I *strongly* advocate for the man:name(section) syntax (because > > it essentially dates right back to th

Re: macOS Terminal man page URL format

> > And since it's specific to the macOS Terminal application It's indicative of a much larger issue — there's no formal, standardised scheme for man page URLs. I encountered many variants

Re: groff 1.23.0.rc2 available for testing

> > The an (man) macro package can now produce clickable hyperlinks within > terminal emulators It might be worth clarifying for macOS users that the hyperlinks use a protocol incompatible with Apple's: “*man:printf(3)*” is used instead of “ *x-man-page://3/printf*” (the latter scheme is ancient

Re: .ab oddity

> > Something I recommend to all serious Unix users is to put the exit status > in the shell prompt. Alternatively, you can indicate a non-zero exit status by displaying a prompt symbol in a different colour than usual. This might be preferable for folks who prefer fixed-width and/or minimalist p

Re: Inline TTY Pixel Rendering. (Was: groff 1.23.0.rc2 status report)

> > Sounds like it's up John Gardner's alley. :-) Actually, I think displaying multimedia within a character-based display is the second-wankiest thing people have managed to do with their terminal ( Browsh being the first). My own prejudices aside, this would be easy to

Re: Online Dictionaries. (Was: words (and commands) that I learnt...)

> > Wiktionary […] isn't too hard to edit once you've made one or two changes. > I know , don't worry. ;-) Wiktionary often gives translations, is multi-lingual, though they quite > rightly put English first :-), and isn't too hard to edit once you

Re: Dynamic Paperlength for PS or PDF device

> > May as well be precise with 21c and 29.7c? Shit, did I really give A4 in Freedom Units™? My bad. I'm pinning this on sheet sleep deprivation and football fever. Staying up to 2:00am AEDT to watch the World Cup, then another at 6:00am—several times a week—has me running on fumes. I have 4.5 h

Re: words (and commands) that I learnt because of Branden

> > Actually, "horde" and "hoard" are homophones FFS, I keep getting those spellings mixed up. Thank you. :D On Sat, 10 Dec 2022 at 21:29, Robert Marks wrote: > Actually, "horde" and "hoard" are homophones, but one is a noun and the > other a verb: > "I use to horde definitions" > > Robert Mar

Re: words (and commands) that I learnt because of Branden (was: preferred /proc//xxx style?)

> > Your emails are the reason I know and often use dict(1). Lol. Branden's e-mails are the reason I consult the Oxford English dictionary far more often than I'm comfortable admitting. Either I'm learning obscure words I know I'll never remember when I need them,[1] <#snarky-footnote-1> or I'm

Re: Dynamic Paperlength for PS or PDF device

> > so here is my solution: > the last line of my groff script is: > ".tm \\n[nl]" > This shows me the page length in groff units. > For convenience I put it in a footer macro. Does this help…? .de *pagesize* \" $1 = width, $2 = height \\!x X papersize=\\$1,\\$2 .ll \\$2u-\\n(.o .pl \\$1 .. . .\

Re: Why isn't the device resolution exposed to the formatter?

> an *embolus* in my brain $ echo "embolus" >> ~/Words-that-Branden-taught-me.txt $ cat $_ inimical, inimicable: harmful; hostile sesquipedalian: having too many syllables irascible: easily pissed at shitty UX indefatigable: incapable of tiring out internecine: mutually destructive apodictic: inco

Re: [groff] 15/39: [grog]: Drop relic code and comments.

> > Perl 5.6.1 is incredibly old (April 2001). I cannot find any evidence of > any current distribution supporting it. IIRC, declaring a program version is recommended practice, as future versions of Perl may have different defaults w.r.t opt-in behaviours like `use warnings` and `use strict`. T

Re: groff 1.23.0.rc2 readiness

> > As you are the most active developer, would you consider taking over the > maintainership of groff? > Please, please, *please* let that be a "yes"… On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 at 07:14, Bertrand Garrigues via wrote: > Hi Branden, > > On Wed, May 25 2022 at 10:56:37 PM, "G. Branden Robinson" < > g.b

Re: One Page Dungeon Layout in groff?

This is what pic(1) is for: # Long version $ pic < dungeon.roff | troff -Tpdf | gropdf > map.pdf # Concise version (recommended) $ groff -p -Tpdf dungeon.roff > map.pdf If you're new to pic(1), there's a browser-friendly (albeit limited) reim

Re: Is it possible to detect `grotty -i` at runtime?

groff(1) open at the same time. groffy(1), if you will. Apologies for the retarded e-mail. This hasn't been one of my finer moments. — J On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 at 11:09, G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi John, > > At 2022-07-22T07:29:48+1000, John

Is it possible to detect `grotty -i` at runtime?

I'm looking for a way to harden my .UL (underline) macro against grotty(1) v1.23's new -i switch, which causes italicised text to be rendered with actual italics (in TTYs that support SGR 3, at least)

Re: Warn on semantic newlines

> > AI is a bane of formatting. It's getting better. Though I still prefer smart practices and dumb programs, ins

Re: [TUHS, groff] 1981 edition of AT&T Nroff/Troff User's Manual

> > Since PDF didn't exist in 1981, the document is either a scan or the > result of a recent *roff run on ancient source. > It's most definitely a scan. Magnifying the pages reveals dust, surface details (grain and creases), and shadow falloff around the holes and edges. Each page is also titled

Re: Zero Width Space

> > What about "input escape" Copy+pasta from my earlier post to a concurrent discussion in another thread: s/input escape/control suppressor/gi s/input escape/command suppressor/gi (This discussion appears to have been split betw

Re: groff man(7) `B` macro behavior with `\c`, and input traps

> > And to allude to an another conversation we are currently having, > including those that contain nothing but "\&", but *not* those that are > completely empty, which would make you think that "\&" is a "zero-width > non-breaking space" or a "zero-width non-printing character" rather than > mere

Re: Setting up repository for user macrosets

> > I was recently thinking of creating one of those "awesome lists" for *roff > resources. I have quite a few tagged bookmarks to go through.. Naming it awesome-roff and tagging it with the awesome-list or awesome topic

Re: groff 1.23.0.rc2 readiness

ce-independent output produced by GNU > troff" > I've given in and taken to calling it "ditroff" informally, even though I know damn well that it's a misappropriation. > . > On Sat, 28 May 2022 at 08:51, G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote:

Re: groff 1.23.0.rc2 readiness

of Groff and will file bug reports accordingly. If you still decide to go ahead: Don't say I didn't warn you. On Fri, 27 May 2022 at 01:23, G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi John, > > At 2022-05-27T00:38:31+1000, John Gardner wrote: > > Pleas

Re: groff 1.23.0.rc2 readiness

Hi Branden, I'm running out of things I can think of to do before RC2. > Please consider #62494 ASAP. Otherwise, it's going to piss a lot of users off. Regards, — J On Thu, 26 May 2022 at 13:56, G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote: >

Re: A Modern Typesetting Language. (Was: .TQ to replace .PD 0)

Hi Ralph, Or at best, gives it through some clunky ‘treat it as a string’ mechanism. > How is that clunky? Text is text. It's opaque, honest, and universal. The foundation of the Unix Philosophy… you know this as well as I do. ;-) One could look at shoehorning evermore complexity through to the

Re: .TQ to replace .PD 0

Hi Ralph, > Support of modern font technologies and of course languages which aren't left-to-right. Agreed. But for everything else you've mentioned: it's just a matter of writing another PDF postprocessor (or some other adapter for a particular format). Postprocessors are where the real beauty o

Re: traveling for a few days

un, 24 Apr 2022 at 20:15, Bertrand Garrigues < bertrand.garrig...@laposte.net> wrote: > Hi John, > > On Sun, Apr 24 2022 at 04:39:57 AM, John Gardner > wrote: > > On macOS, Groff builds and installs perfectly from a fresh checkout > (currently using > > f55d8f41).

Re: traveling for a few days

On macOS, Groff builds and installs perfectly from a fresh checkout (currently using f55d8f41). However, running `make check` produced 6 failing tests: FAIL: src/devices/grotty/tests/basic_latin_glyphs_map_correctly.sh > XFAIL: src/roff/groff/tests/string_case_xform_unicode_escape.sh > XFAIL src/

Re: Question on hyperlinks in groff

Hi Chems, When reading the s.tmac file, specifically the description for the .[ > macro, it mentions a macro called .#, but I can't find its definition > anywhere. > Both the .[ and .# macros belong to the Mono package . This is a project of mine (i.e., not part o

Re: [BUG] groff: inconsistent behavior of " to separate arguments

> GMail did the exact same thing to me with the same 3 emails from Ingo. > His messages since then _seem_ to have gotten to me reliably. I recently had to add a Gmail filter to mark e-mails from Ingo as *NOT* spam. He e-mailed me again recently and I nearly missed it under the usual deluge of bull

Re: Five glyphs: a minor PostScript challenge

> > Does anyone have enough PostScript wizardry to achieve any of this? I do. I'm quite fluent in PostScript programming, and your suspicions about the dynamic glyph generation are correct. I'll have a more s

Re: Groff hanging when called from Java

Are you sure the process isn't waiting for input from an interactive (TTY-attached) STDIN stream? Try sending ^D (CTRL+D), which should tell it that it's reached EOF. I don't know much about Java, only that it's weird and gross (so I have to assume writing to /dev/stderr or even /dev/console doesn

Re: Should vertical motions be in vees or ems? Where does the baseline go?

opics of nontrivial complexity, these sources sometimes conflict. > > > Ossanna's original did not have drawing capability, so it created > > horizontal lines as a row of underscores. The vertical position and > > thickness of such a line is determined by the current font

Re: No rule to make target `tmac/mdoc/doc-common', needed by `all-am'. Stop.

Hi Axel, Before running ./bootstrap from the root directory, make sure *all *build artefacts are wiped: git pull && git checkout -- . && git clean -xfd I recall seeing this exact error a while ago when attempting to recompile Groff. It might be related. On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 at 05:18, Axel Kielh

Re: Portability to Mac OS X (was: Sed failure in contrib/sboxes on MacOS)

ant an excuse to separate Groff from the TeX world as much as humanly possible…) On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 at 04:27, John Gardner wrote: > In lieu of escaped newlines and awkward sed(1) formatting, you can use > the following line to insert an empty line: > > /^Before$/ { N; s/\n/&&/;

Re: Portability to Mac OS X (was: Sed failure in contrib/sboxes on MacOS)

In lieu of escaped newlines and awkward sed(1) formatting, you can use the following line to insert an empty line: /^Before$/ { N; s/\n/&&/; } Note that BSD sed(1) is picky about braces and semicolons. I have groff building successfully on Mac OS X now. > I recently upgraded to macOS 12.0.1 (M

Re: Sed failure in contrib/sboxes on MacOS

> > Yes. Mac OS X, at least the version I have access to, uses Bash 3.2 as > its script interpreter, and zsh 5.8 as its interactive shell. > It's more complicated than that. Apple have announced that the default shell (Bash 3.2) will be removed in a future version of macOS, meaning ` /bin/sh` wi

Re: Two trivial questions

Initially, I pronounced it /ɡɹɔːf/ . Recently, I've begun pronouncing it /ˈdʒiːɹɒf/ , though I sometimes still mentally read it as the former. IMHO, I think we should put our foot down and

Re: We have OSC 8 terminal hyperlink support now

I know it's probably a bit early for this discussion, but somebody on GitHub raised a good question : Why x-man-page? dnf reports that yelp & khelpcenter provide man:// - but > has no providers for x-man-page:

Re: We have OSC 8 terminal hyperlink support now

Hi Brandon, That's one small step for a man... one giant leap for man(1)-kind. ;-) Brilliant work! I can't wait to update Mono.tmac to include it! Is there any reliable way for a macro-package to detect support for this at runtime? Also, I spotted a typo in

Re: PROPOSED: semantics for an output line length of zero

021-09-07T23:22:13+1000, John Gardner wrote: > > I'm not sure I understand the issue here. For the purposes of > > line-wrapping and word-breaking, `.ll 0` is essentially the same as > > `.ll 1u`... isn't it? Even in situations when a typesetter's quantum > > of

Re: PROPOSED: semantics for an output line length of zero

e., I am \n[.l]u long. yields I am 1u long. but also I am 0u long. Am I missing something? On Sun, 5 Sept 2021 at 03:36, G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote: > I'm proposing this on behalf on John Gardner, who raised it in a > Savannah ticket[1]. >

Re: Groff examples repository

> > Since John Gardner will (rightly) insist that examples of mdoc(7) code are > nothing more than mere examples of roff(7) code To quote Heisenberg: *"You're goddamn right."* ;-) The Groff examples repository is now available on the web at > https://froude.eu/groff

Re: Use various macro packages in the same page (was: Re: Plan 9 man added a new macro for man page references)

> > But the mdoc(7) and man(7) languages can also be regarded as languages > with a grammar I wish people would stop referring to these as "languages". They're macro packages, plain and simple: their "syntax" is that of the language they're written in, Roff. How mandoc(1) implements and parses th

Re: Question about ?roff on Reddit

> > John's a sneaky devil. I've never seen the .cw request used in anger > before I'm sorry, I meant to write `.cs`, which was superfluous anyway (since I already set line-length to 1n, which forced lines to be wrapped). I was in a rush and hastily repurposing code from an earlier snippet

Re: Modernising UNIX manpages.

> > I would like to investigate the possibility of using Markdown as an > alternate format for UNIX man-pages. You picked the worst possible markup imaginable. Not just for man pages, but for any technical documentation, *period*. If you're interested in "modernising", I suggest rewriting man pag

Re: Interesting articles

Of course, *both* solutions are inadequate when you consider languages other than English (especially agglutinative languages like Hungarian and Turkish). For example, how many "words" are in " *muvaffakiyetsizleştiriciveremeyebileceklerimizdenmişsini

Re: Mangled pdf in Chrome browser?

Also perfect on macOS. Big Sur 11.2.1, Chrome 88.0.4324.182 (Official Build) (x86_64) On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 at 05:35, Heinz-Jürgen Oertel wrote: > Am Samstag, 20. Februar 2021, 17:42:09 CET schrieb Peter Schaffter: > > A user contacted me off list saying that the example pdf file at > > > > htt

Re: ^G

anden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Wim and John, > > At 2021-02-02T23:11:39+1100, John Gardner wrote: > > Hi Wim, > > > > Roff syntax permits certain ASCII control characters in identifiers. > > They're typically used by older macro-packages to avoid n

Re: ^G

Hi Wim, Roff syntax permits certain ASCII control characters in identifiers. They're typically used by older macro-packages to avoid naming conflicts, or in contexts when an arbitrary delimiter may appear in legitimate texts (such as the .tl request). Acceptable control characters are: - ^B S

Re: Huge Filesize of PS file 12M

> > Because I still see a lot of this [in the Postscript file]. Can I somehow > remove them. I don't need all those special characters. In PostScript, you can "initialise" an array with a value with /Encoding [ 255 {/.notdef} repeat ] def % Set array entries individually Encoding 0 /asciic

Re: Groff algorithm

Both syntax highlighting and elegant algorithm specifications would make great preprocessors. ;-) I find the latter works best when used tastefully (and never, *ever* in a manual page). It'd be trivial to write an Awk script for replacing basic-looking keywords, substituting them with proper place

Re: [HELP] [bug #55475] Segmentation fault in libgroff:relocatep

> > In fact, we could really use ongoing assistance from someone with a > Windows environment to test builds on. These VirtualBox images might help to bridge a few gaps… - https://archive.org/details/ie6.xp.virtualbox - https://archive.org/details/ie8.xp.virtualbox - https://archive.org

mdoc: `.Os` macro should stop validating versions

As of this writing, the latest releases of Darwin are 20.2.0 (stable) and 20.3.0 (beta), respectively corresponding to macOS 11.1 and macOS 11.2 beta. However, the `doc-operating-system-*` strings defined in tmac/mdoc/doc-common-u only count up to 19.2.0. Obviously, keeping this list up-to-date is

Re: End-of-sentence spacing

> > It was neither the only, first, last, or most vituperous critique of Two > Spaces: There has been a rising tide of condemnation of the practice in the > media, as shown by Googling "two spaces after period". > I condemn two spaces, period. Worst\. Indentation style\. Ever. On Tue, 22 Dec 202

Re: groff: grops and grodvi crash on invalid input

7;tty:' tag ignored (For reference, it's complaining about the \X'meta: …' directives I embedded in a few macros) On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 at 02:46, G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote: > At 2020-11-23T00:10:15+1100, John Gardner wrote: > > IMHO, it

Re: groff: grops and grodvi crash on invalid input

> > He declared a groff-compatible ps device resolution of 72000 but didn't > scale his arguments. That's assuming he didn't patch devps/DESC locally with an arbitrary ` sizescale` or `unitwidth` parameter (which may have been an attempt to make coordinates easier to visualise). But your point st

Re: groff: grops and grodvi crash on invalid input

> > In the meantime, John Gardner, who's written his own "ditroff" > interpreter in JavaScript, might be able to offer some useful insights > on the well-formedness of your sample documents. Sorry, I completely missed this. The samples look fine. Try converting thei

Re: [groff] 03/09: tmac/an-old.tmac: Stop remapping ` and '.

> > A pity there’s no OpenType version. Somebody already made one , although the link they gave is dead. Fortunately, I saved it. One of these days I'll do a high-quality, hand traced version that matches th

Re: [groff] 03/09: tmac/an-old.tmac: Stop remapping ` and '.

certainly possible. > > The rest of this reply addresses a few details. > > Yours, > Ingo > > > John Gardner wrote on Mon, Nov 02, 2020 at 11:24:49PM +1100: > > > I think it's time we took constant-width fonts seriously when > > preparing output for the termi

Re: [groff] 03/09: tmac/an-old.tmac: Stop remapping ` and '.

I think it's time we took constant-width fonts seriously when preparing output for the terminal. Here me out on this: You see, I've never, *ever* needed fancy typography when typesetting code samples, which are invariably set in a fixed-pitch (monspace) typeface. The use of a fixed-pitch font stip

Re: [groff] 03/09: tmac/an-old.tmac: Stop remapping ` and '.

> > To summarize: It seems that there is only a single platform left today > that by default uses a bitmap font for terminals with symmetric ` and > ' characters. This sort-of proves my point, doesn't it? It gets even worse. See, whenever you edit source code, symmetric quote-pairs look like a d

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