On 12/05/2018 7:27 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
On Fri, 11 May 2018 10:41:37 -0500, Kirk Wolf wrote:
...
The good:
...
I've seen no mention in this thread of arbitrary precision aritnmetic.
Some would consider GAAP support even more valuable.
Somehow it's not entirely a scripting
On 12/05/2018 6:23 AM, Tony Thigpen wrote:
Come comments on other posts:
David Crayford wrote on 05/11/2018 02:22 PM:
> The fact that REXX does not have native support for VSAM
> data sets is a shocking omission.
This is available on s/VSE.
z/VM and z/VSE seem to have lots of features that
[Default] On 11 May 2018 16:26:19 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu (Paul Gilmartin) wrote:
>On Fri, 11 May 2018 10:41:37 -0500, Kirk Wolf wrote:
>>...
>>The good:
>>...
>I've seen no mention in this thread of arbitrary precision aritnmetic.
On Fri, 11 May 2018 10:41:37 -0500, Kirk Wolf wrote:
>...
>The good:
>...
I've seen no mention in this thread of arbitrary precision aritnmetic.
Some would consider GAAP support even more valuable.
Somehow it's not entirely a scripting feature.
What other languages have it?
-- gil
On 11 May 2018 at 15:02, Kirk Wolf wrote:
> Isn't a big obstacle on z/OS the fact that TSO doesn't have a generalized
> interface for invoking a "command" in an arbitrary scripting language and
> then providing it with a command processing (and/or ISPF) interface?
Yes. This
On Fri, 11 May 2018 16:45:38 -0500, Paul Edwards wrote:
>Yes, I agree that it is possible to construct a
>defacto AM64 32-bit program by making the
>compiler generate an unusual z/OS-specific
>module.
I think you could call this a 32:32 segmented
memory model. Especially if
Come comments on other posts:
David Crayford wrote on 05/11/2018 02:22 PM:
> The fact that REXX does not have native support for VSAM
> data sets is a shocking omission.
This is available on s/VSE.
Paul Gilmartin wrote on 05/11/2018 12:25 PM:
> No sharing variables between EXECs
This is
Perhaps I am over-complicating it. (I am just thinking; have not written any
code yet.)
I think I can use BPXWDYN() for that matter.
I am assuming that I can come down to fopen("//DD:ddname");
Charles
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
On Fri, 11 May 2018 23:42:14 +0200, Bernd Oppolzer
wrote:
>When a runtime function is called, this function will probably need a
>service which implies AMODE/RMODE 24.
If you are using z/OS, I think you will find all the
services you require are AM31/RM31-clean, no
On Fri, 11 May 2018 23:24:51 +0200, Bernd Oppolzer
wrote:
>> Note that he achieved this by allocating 4 GiB
>> above the 4 GiB bar, in order to get 2 GiB. While
>> this technique certainly has its merits, it would
>> be easier to write the compiler if IBM simply
>>
See my other post also; there should be a separation between the
(address) registers
that have continent information in the upper half and the other that
have not.
The compiler which generates the code takes care about this.
When a runtime function is called, this function will probably need a
Am 11.05.2018 um 19:34 schrieb Paul Edwards:
On Fri, 11 May 2018 19:22:22 +0200, Bernd Oppolzer
wrote:
What I found most interesting in this whole thread was a suggestion
>from (IIRC) a SAS guy some days before. He suggested, if I understood
it correctly, that a
The only slightly tricky thing is the dynamic allocation, that that is
pretty straight forward for the primary subsystem.
You can even use __svc99() in the C library and then fopen("//DD:ddname",
)
Kirk Wolf
Dovetailed Technologies
http://dovetail.com
On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 12:29 PM,
Here you go John:
DEAR BOSS,
YOU MAY BE A LUDDITE.
SINCERELY,
JOHN MCKOWN
Kirk Wolf
Dovetailed Technologies
http://dovetail.com
PS> Seriously, it is fair to say that POSIX and zFS files need better
support in z/OS. Take BPXBATCH for example (please :-)
On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 8:03 AM, John
Good point. But note that if the application
also uses LOC=24 or LOC=31 storage, that will
need to be in an address register that has
the upper 32 bits as 0.
BFN. Paul.
On Fri, 11 May 2018 14:09:59 -0500, Mike Schwab wrote:
>If you stick with 32 bit arithmatic
If you stick with 32 bit arithmatic instructions, it does not use the
upper 32 bits. of each register, so having the upper 32 bits set like
the address register does no harm.
On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 12:22 PM, Bernd Oppolzer
wrote:
> What I found most interesting in
Couldn't you do Address XYZ and then have commands that XYZ understands?
--
Lionel B. Dyck (Contractor) <
Mainframe Systems Programmer – RavenTek Solution Partners
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion
It would be nice to have a choice of scripting languages like on other
platforms.
Isn't a big obstacle on z/OS the fact that TSO doesn't have a generalized
interface for invoking a "command" in an arbitrary scripting language and
then providing it with a command processing (and/or ISPF)
On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 12:22 PM, Bernd Oppolzer wrote:
> What I found most interesting in this whole thread was a suggestion
> from (IIRC) a SAS guy some days before. He suggested, if I understood
> it correctly, that a large application should run in AM64, but
I've been reading this thread (for too long) and am compelled to ask folks to
please stop arguing with Paul. Jim Mulder has rejected Paul's request, and the
buck stops there as far as I'm concerned. "Asked and answered, Your Honor."
Paul is entitled to his "want" and all are entitled to their
I'm at a loss as to why anybody would use OOREXX on platforms where
there are a multitude of better languages to chose from. If it's because
of familiarity coming from z/OS or z/VM then I would
advise them to take the time to learn something new. Most modern
scripting languages can be picked up
I would have to respectfully disagree. PHP is the worst designed
programming language ever and perl isn't much better. Perl excels at one
thing, regular expressions. Its syntax is ugly
and it suffers from language bloat. I dislike Ruby because it has
borrowed many of the "multiple ways to do
That's a fine curated list of the bad points of REXX. If I may add that
only having one data type, the string, is not the killer feature that
people laud it to be. As you mentioned, compound varibles
being the only data structure REXX is a problem in todays world. Try
serializing a REXX array
Well, if it's "Free-For-All-Friday", I vote for replacing all that crap
with Perl. And I'm sure that PHP and even that snake language have their
fans. Maybe IBM should leave script language design to the wider world.
REXX is adequate for a lot of things, but the // and % operators just make
me
For additional info on using the LISTDSI command in REXX checkout the following
link.
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.ikja300/ldsi.htm
PHIL CARLYLE
Information Security | IAM RACF directory services
M: 480-235-2837 |
On Fri, 11 May 2018 19:22:22 +0200, Bernd Oppolzer
wrote:
>What I found most interesting in this whole thread was a suggestion
>from (IIRC) a SAS guy some days before. He suggested, if I understood
>it correctly, that a large application should run in AM64, but store
Reading to cure insomnia:
There may be a real reason why Paul's wording of an
RFE "perhaps" "might" "possibly" be a non-started?
The requests had no suggestions for 32-bit programs.
Non-U.S. based Paul just has issues with English.
There were no suggestions for AMODE 32.
Non-U.S. based Paul just
Yes, you can "read the directory blocks" of a PDSE with BSAM even though they
do not really exist.
Charles
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2018 8:32 AM
To:
Thanks. Possibly useful. Not sure at first glance if too "SDSF-specific" or not.
I would not be writing in Rexx but Rexx serves just fine as a "pseudo-code"
language.
Charles
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Paul
What I found most interesting in this whole thread was a suggestion
from (IIRC) a SAS guy some days before. He suggested, if I understood
it correctly, that a large application should run in AM64, but store
internally
only 32 bit pointers; the left half of all registers used as address
I never ran a S/360-32bit system, but
different users logged on to TSS in different modes.
An IPL of the entire computer complex every time
that every user logged on was probably not done.
i.e. It was a bi-modal architecture.
An LPSW or other instruction would have made
more sense.
I also
"How did that work? Did a high bit in BASR
cause AM32 to be activated?"
No ... the 360-67 had to be IPL'd in extended PSW mode to activate
AM32. Otherwise it was a BC mode PSW machine...
Joe
On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 5:32 AM, Paul Edwards wrote:
> On Fri, 11 May 2018
On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 11:13 AM, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> I/O? The ANSI stream I/O functions are in OOREXX, as are equivalent
> methods.
>
I have not reviewed the actual OOREXX source code. If is uses the C
language "fopen()" to open disk files, then it's good. But if it uses
On Fri, 11 May 2018 10:41:37 -0500, Kirk Wolf wrote:
>
>I recognize that many here have learned it really well and don't have to
>think about all of the pitfalls and landmines. But please don't try to
>tell new mainframers who have learned modern scripting languages how nice
>it is :-)
>
>The
Actually, CLIST can do some things that REXX can't, although on balance I'll
take REXX over CLIST, EXEC or EXCE2.
I find REXX much friendlier than any Unix shell, although bash certainly has
some things that REXX needs. IBM: why haven't you added all of the ANSI
extensions to REXX?
See my
On May 11, 2018, at 10:39 AM, John McKown wrote:
>
> I appreciate the response so far. I'm really getting the idea that people
> are more "resigned" to UNIX as part of z/OS, rather than "enthusiastic"
> about it.
I don’t know that I’d describe myself as
I/O? The ANSI stream I/O functions are in OOREXX, as are equivalent methods.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
John McKown
On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 10:41 AM, Kirk Wolf wrote:
> Yeah, I said it. I remember how fond I was of REXX when I first discovered
> it VM/CMS in the 1980s, when big hair and mullets were also great.
>
> Sure, on the surface it seems like a user friendly scripting language, but
On Fri, 11 May 2018 11:47:08 -0400, Carmen Vitullo wrote:
>Talking about strange dsn allocations, I worked as a contractor Y2K for state
>Govmt, after updating TLSM to support OS/390 2.5 one of our agency's support
>folks told me I broke TLMS because the dataset(s) they use to write to take
On Fri, 11 May 2018 09:53:32 -0500, Paul Edwards wrote:
>On Fri, 11 May 2018 23:28:16 +1000, Greg Price
>wrote:
>
>>Yes, you CAN write programs which would work using the same logic in
>>AM24, AM31, AM32, AM64, and AM-anything-else, but
On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 9:10 AM, Wayne Driscoll <
wdrisc...@rocketsoftware.com> wrote:
> Paul,
> Unlike Hercules, z/Architecture is part of a business, and, as such, a
> business value needs to be made in order to get support for changes, in
> particular radical changes like AM32. "it would be
Talking about strange dsn allocations, I worked as a contractor Y2K for state
Govmt, after updating TLSM to support OS/390 2.5 one of our agency's support
folks told me I broke TLMS because the dataset(s) they use to write to take for
DOL is, for example DSN='Sears Roebuck and Co',
On Thu, 10 May 2018 17:30:53 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:
>Is there a sample program - say in SYS1.SAMPLIB or on the CBT tape (yes, I
>looked) - that shows an example of how to allocate and read a JES spool
>dataset?
>
>How to do this, in other words: https://ibm.co/2IbrcGV
>
If Rexx is a
Yeah, I said it. I remember how fond I was of REXX when I first discovered
it VM/CMS in the 1980s, when big hair and mullets were also great.
Sure, on the surface it seems like a user friendly scripting language, but
IMO that is only true if you compare it to JCL, CLIST, RPGII, and Windows
On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 10:19 AM, Paul Gilmartin <
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
>
> I hate EBCDIC! I wish IBM had provided just an EBCDIC kernel and let FOSS
> supply the shell
> and utilities.
>
NIH. I somewhat understand why IBM did this. First, IBM is very
On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 9:06 AM, Charles Mills wrote:
> Oh for gosh sakes! Every operating system is different. There is no
> eleventh commandment "filenames shall be 44 uppercase characters" that UNIX
> violated. Tell him a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.
On Fri, 11 May 2018 13:56:24 +0100, Mike Wawiorko wrote:
>OUTTRAP with LISTD dsname M ?
>
>I'm pretty sure others will have better suggestions.
>
There's also an ISPF facility for this.
In days of yore I have allocated a PDS with RECFM=F,LRECL=256,DSORG=PS
and read with Rexx EXECIO and parsed
On Thu, 10 May 2018 23:47:27 -0500, Edward Gould wrote:
>>
>> Fear of indention is collateral damage of RECFM=FB,80. When Rexx first came
>> to TSO it came with a GIM that recommended RECFM=VB,LRECL=generous.
>> IBM then ignored its own advice and made SYSPROC FB,80, dragging wiser
>> coders
On Fri, 11 May 2018 07:06:11 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:
>Oh for gosh sakes! Every operating system is different. There is no eleventh
>commandment "filenames shall be 44 uppercase characters" that UNIX violated.
>Tell him a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. Or that the
Check out the RFE for TSO Pipes that currently has 168 votes and is an
'uncommitted candidate'. It really needs a solid business case for IBM to move
forward is what I suspect.
If you search the RFE system for Servers and Systems Software and then product
z/OS this is the TOP RFE by votes with
On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 9:48 AM, Steve Thompson wrote:
> I've got an observation you and your boss probably won't like.
>
> Windows is based on CP/M (that is what Microsoft started with). Guess what
> CP/M was based on.
>
Hum, I used CP/M on a z80 based system back in the
Lionel:
You are so right. That's why it needs to be in the base.
(There are sites that still have it.)
Ok, people!!! Go out there and rattle some cages!!! Your boss, your data
center manager, you sales rep., your SHARE rep., your neighbor's dog, and
anyone else you can think of. (Skip your
Ask your friendly IBM rep, or search the IBM site, and you won't find it. It
may be there but it isn't obvious and unless it is integrated it won't be
exploited by ISVs (or IBM).
--
Lionel B. Dyck (Contractor) <
Mainframe
It's already integrated. It's just not in the z/OS base. And you have to
pay extra.
OREXXMan
JCL is the buggy whip of 21st century computing.
We want Pipelines in the z/OS base.
On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 10:54 AM, Dyck, Lionel B. (TRA)
wrote:
> PIPES - it would be very nice
PIPES - it would be very nice if IBM were to just integrate PIPES into TSO/REXX
and then we can move on and make z/OS an even better platform for the future.
--
Lionel B. Dyck (Contractor) <
Mainframe Systems Programmer –
On Fri, 11 May 2018 23:28:16 +1000, Greg Price
wrote:
>Yes, you CAN write programs which would work using the same logic in
>AM24, AM31, AM32, AM64, and AM-anything-else, but generally speaking
>NOBODY HAS. (Specific counterexamples do not invalidate the point - we
"pipe listpds" dsn "| stem members."
OREXXMan
JCL is the buggy whip of 21st century computing.
We want Pipelines in the z/OS base.
On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 9:00 AM, Carmen Vitullo wrote:
> outrap with LISTD works well
> soemthing like this works well
>
>
>
> X = Listdsi(DSN
I've got an observation you and your boss probably won't like.
Windows is based on CP/M (that is what Microsoft started with).
Guess what CP/M was based on.
Now, here we are 30+ years from M/S and Windows (~ 1983 for first
release), and they have a lower RAS than does Linux which started
I think the real downside is cost of going to a new "platform", even tho
it's still within z/OS. That means training,
development/conversionj/implementation, testing, deployment, new operations
procedures and training, maintenance, etc.
Add in the general problem of rewriting any software in its
Hi Wayne. Let's forget about AM32. There's no
convenient way to add that. All the bits in BSM
are taken already. I would like to be able to run
a pure AM64 z/OS environment though.
You mentioned that AM32 would need to switch
to AM31 because of the variable length parameters.
That is not the case
I'll trust that your look was as good as mine would be. Maybe it's
considered too elementary to sample.
Oddly, I wrote such code eons ago, like on MVS/XA. It used some SSI
requests for information, then basically proceeded as that link describes.
sas
On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 8:30 PM, Charles
Paul,
Unlike Hercules, z/Architecture is part of a business, and, as such, a business
value needs to be made in order to get support for changes, in particular
radical changes like AM32. "it would be nice" and "but it's so cool" aren't
business rationalizations for the amount of potentially
Oh for gosh sakes! Every operating system is different. There is no eleventh
commandment "filenames shall be 44 uppercase characters" that UNIX violated.
Tell him a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. Or that the
inability to learn new things is a sign of old age.
Or point
On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 8:44 AM, Tony Thigpen wrote:
> I don't believe that John said anything about the command line parameters.
> He was talking about the file system only. As for the command line, the
> only thing 'affected' would be the name of the command (including any
>
I don't believe that John said anything about the command line
parameters. He was talking about the file system only. As for the
command line, the only thing 'affected' would be the name of the command
(including any path). It could still be entered in lower-case, but he
file system would find
On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 8:29 AM, Mike Wawiorko <
014ab5cdfb21-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> Just get used to z/OS Unix (Posix?) being case sensitive.
>
I completely agree with you. But many people with a Windows background are
going to be "upset". I don't know how difficult it
Just get used to z/OS Unix (Posix?) being case sensitive.
Many command modifiers have entirely different meanings in either case: command
-x v. command -X
Mike Wawiorko
This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and intended solely for the
addressee and may also be privileged or
On 2018-05-11 9:41 PM, Tom Marchant wrote:
On Fri, 11 May 2018 00:29:40 -0500, somitcw wrote:
SG24-7605-00
z/OS Version 1 Release 10 Implementation
April 2009
Pages 6 and 104
Claims that next to E-Nuc is ESQA, ELPA, ECSA, then E-private.
That illustration in that Redbook is incorrect.
I
On Fri, 11 May 2018 06:42:25 -0500, Tom Marchant wrote:
>On Fri, 11 May 2018 00:29:40 -0500, somitcw wrote:
>
>>next to E-Nuc is ESQA, ELPA, ECSA, then E-private.
>
>That illustration in that Redbook is incorrect.
I was mistaken. However, ELSQA has always been at the top.
--
Tom Marchant
OK, I bet I got your attention on that {grin}.
But, seriously, I am wondering what the "person in the trenches" thinks
about the increasing use of UNIX files and commands becoming more prevalent
on z/OS. I am basically asking because my manager absolutely despises UNIX
files. And hates the
outrap with LISTD works well
soemthing like this works well
X = Listdsi(DSN 'DIRECTORY NORECALL')
If X=16 Then Do
If SYSREASON = 9 Then Do
Say '** Data set has been migrated .. Abort'
Exit
End
If SYSREASON = 5 Then Do
Say '** Data set not cataloged .. Abort'
Exit
End
Else Do
Say
OUTTRAP with LISTD dsname M ?
I'm pretty sure others will have better suggestions.
Mike Wawiorko
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Barkow, Eileen
Sent: 11 May 2018 13:42
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re:
On Fri, 11 May 2018 00:59:14 -0700, Glen wrote:
>the 360/67 has 32 bit virtual addressing, along with BAS and
>BASR to use it.
Yes, but not BSM or BASSM.
IIRC changing AMODE required a privileged instruction.
The Functional Characteristics manual is on Bitsavers.
--
Tom Marchant
Stop poking the bear!
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Steve Smith
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 4:43 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: GETMAIN LOC=32
Somewhere along the way, you seem to have missed the
Thanks for the critique Hobart.
Actually the intention of the SINGALS was to terminate the loops and other
constructs.
This clist was a conversion from an SDSF BATCH process to extract and archive
the files and it was my first experience with SDSF/REXX so
I was more interested in the
On Fri, 11 May 2018 00:29:40 -0500, somitcw wrote:
>SG24-7605-00
>z/OS Version 1 Release 10 Implementation
>April 2009
>Pages 6 and 104
>Claims that next to E-Nuc is ESQA, ELPA, ECSA, then E-private.
That illustration in that Redbook is incorrect.
>When did they move?
They didn't.
>Are we
On Fri, 11 May 2018 05:32:46 -0500, Paul Edwards wrote:
>What I did was provide an option such that any
>request to activate AM31 with BSM instead
>activates AM32.
BTW, it would be good if z/Arch had a similar
option. ie you can configure the hardware so
that any attempt to
On Fri, 11 May 2018 00:59:14 -0700, Glen wrote:
>As far as I know, IBM did produce a mainframe with 32 bit virtual
>addressing.
>
>There might not be many around, and I don't think Hercules has this
>mode,
Hercules/380 has been updated to support AM32.
What I did was
As far as I know, IBM did produce a mainframe with 32 bit virtual
addressing.
There might not be many around, and I don't think Hercules has this
mode, but the 360/67 has 32 bit virtual addressing, along with BAS and
BASR to use it.
Paul, are you continuing to bother us under a new pseudonym now?
--
Peter Hunkeler
Von: somitcw <01b1f179dc6e-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> An:
IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Betreff: Re: GETMAIN LOC=32 Datum: 11.05.18, 07:29
SG24-7605-00
z/OS Version 1 Release 10
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