No matter where the stabilization layer(s) live, using DNS as a
means to map from identity to locations simply won't work. It might be
good enough for initial connection (assuming that if a service exists on
multiple hosts, any of them will do), but it's not good enough for
re-establishing an
On Sun, 31 Aug 2003, Tim Chown wrote:
On Sat, Aug 30, 2003 at 05:25:19PM -0400, Dean Anderson wrote:
The Virus writer obviously went to some trouble to pick valid addresses.
It stands to reason that they expect that someone is getting mail to these
addresses. It also stands to reason
On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 00:00:45 EDT, shogunx said:
On Sat, 30 Aug 2003, Dean Anderson wrote:
Open source kernels aren't immune. They just aren't at focus this time.
If a worm is executing visual basic code, then i think i am pretty darn
immune.
Google for the Lion worm, and quit smirking.
http://simonwoodside.com/projects/ict/voip_paradox.html
The Voice over IP paradox
Simon Woodside
*Abstract*
Voice over IP is paradoxically both internet and telephony at the same
time. This article presents the paradox, and associated arguments.
On 31/8/03 23:34, Dean Anderson wrote:
Your comments are true in general, but I don't think they take into
consideration the differences between this virus and the ones that go
through the address book. One can (more) easily get such valid, trusted,
familiar addresses from the address book.
It seems that there is no guarantee that VoIP is Internet either, just as IETF
protocols can be used to great effect outside of the public Internet too.
Cheers, Rod.
-Original Message-
From: ext grenville armitage [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 12:21 PM
On Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 05:21 AM, grenville armitage wrote:
S Woodside wrote:
[..]
Voice over IP is paradoxically both internet and telephony at the same
time. This article presents the paradox, and associated arguments.
Your paradox seems artificial. IP Telephony is both
Dear Keith Moore,
Thank you for your reply. It seems that we are without a forum though,
since what we are discussing is, according to Tony Hain, not in line
with the IPv6 working group charter. Maybe we really do need a new
working group for this issue. Should we propose the formation of
So far I have not seen one case of someone I know informing me that I
have sent a message to them with a virus included. They have all been from strangers,
which is one reason they get trapped by my filters.
As best I can tell, all the to and from addresses are randomly selected.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Rosen == Rosen, Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Rosen I therefore have a modest proposal:
Rosen Allow the submission of an xml file meeting the requirements of
Rosen RFC2629
Rosen along with the text file (and optional ps file) for an
I don't know about about you, Paul, but I'm writing my drafts using
EMACS and Marshall's tool. That allows for generation of HTML, NROFF,
and text. The HTML allows for hyperlinks, which is REALLY nice.
Eliot
Could one use the NAPTR concept to create a new identifier space with
specific dynamics? It would take two lookups: one to DNS to get the NAPTR
and one to resolve the NAPTR identifier into an IP address.
We will be soon able to test the speed of such a mechanism with the NAPTR
client built
Rosen, Brian wrote:
Allow the submission of an xml file meeting the requirements of RFC2629
along with the text file (and optional ps file) for an Internet Draft.
The value in this would be that it provides everyone with the document
source, suitable for generating patches for the author. This
Eliot Lear wrote:
I'm writing my drafts using EMACS and Marshall's tool. That allows
for generation of HTML, NROFF, and text. The HTML allows for
hyperlinks, which is REALLY nice.
XML is the way to go, no doubt about it.
Michel.
I think SIP does more things that are fun rather than only things that are
useful.
This matters all the time; Not just when there is an earthquake, etc.
Spending and planning, not technology per se determines whether things work
in an emergency.
Besides, the future is long. What familiar now
Michel Py wrote:
IMHO the only place to put the ID/LOC indirection layer (I would say
sub-layer) that does not break a million things is:
I like the third stack, added to the right, even more. A kinda
new waist for the stack. OTOH, I think that most probably
something new is also needed at
At 10:47 AM -0700 9/2/03, Eliot Lear wrote:
I don't know about about you, Paul, but I'm writing my drafts using
EMACS and Marshall's tool. That allows for generation of HTML,
NROFF, and text. The HTML allows for hyperlinks, which is REALLY
nice.
Great! Why does that mean that the XML input
Perhaps, perhaps not. I live in Ontario Canada and in the recent
blackout, my phone kept working.
i.e., you did not have a ISDN or wireless phone
Scott
At 6:15 PM -0400 8/27/03, Rosen, Brian wrote:
I therefore have a modest proposal:
Allow the submission of an xml file meeting the requirements of RFC2629
along with the text file (and optional ps file) for an Internet Draft.
You didn't say what the additional value would be. We know the
Robert,
Robert Honore wrote:
... As such, I can distinguish the following issues as aspects of
the problem given all that was mentioned in this thread, the solving
the real problem thread and the one on the IPv6 mail list about
deprecating Site Local addresses and the usage of IPv6 Link Local
Paul Hoffman / IMC writes:
At 1:22 PM -0400 9/2/03, Rosen, Brian wrote:
2) Ability to cross reference documents
That benefit only appears if all, or a significant proportion, of the
Internet Drafts are in XML or a similar format. That's not what you
proposed.
It seems to me that
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
IMC == IMC Paul writes:
I think there are quite a few reasons. Mine are:
1) Ability to render in alternate ways to improve
readability and accessibility
IMC Please be more specific on accessibility. Which groups of people
IMC are
Pekka,
PN that stable end-point identifiers are mainly needed to make
PN applications survive IP address changes. Dave Crocker's MAST
PN is a good example how you can do that without having stable
PN end-point identifiers.
In general I suggest we find some specific scenarios that require a new
Dan Kolis writes:
Sip and even H.323 are Multimedia presentation services. All are
extensible far beyond two user full duplex speech. Like mislabelling
atmospheric changes global warming... calling anything using speech codecs
under Ip VoIP it completely distorts it and disrupts
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Scott == Scott Bradner [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Perhaps, perhaps not. I live in Ontario Canada and in the recent
blackout, my phone kept working.
Scott i.e., you did not have a ISDN or wireless phone
Wired POTS phones did not continue
On Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 02:22 PM, Scott Bradner wrote:
Perhaps, perhaps not. I live in Ontario Canada and in the recent
blackout, my phone kept working.
i.e., you did not have a ISDN or wireless phone
Yes we still have an old-fashioned no frills basic telephone in the
house. I also
It is my impression that wireless local loop systems (WLL) for
telephony include backup batteries in subscriber units as well. That
I was referring to cordless phones - not cel phones
they also die when the power goes out, for some reason some people
do not expect that to be the case
Scott
I'll give you one good reason. And that is updating the drafts once
the initial RFC is published. If the origional XML/.doc/input language of the
day is available, then I don't have to spend my time converting the text
into a usable form to get the formating done easily.
For this reason only,
You didn't say what the additional value would be. We know the
additional value of a .ps file (drawings that don't translate to
ASCII art). What is the value of XML? It certainly isn't
searchability or readability.
While I normally run in horror from all things XML, this is one of the few
Mike said:
If you're going to go there, it's worth pointing
out that the V in VoIP is a pretty artificial
distinction too.
Mike
Dan said:
Sip and even H.323 are Multimedia presentation services. All are
extensible far beyond two user full duplex speech. Like mislabelling
atmospheric changes
I was referring to cordless phones - not cel phones
they also die when the power goes out, for some reason some people
do not expect that to be the case
which is why I still have _one_ corded phone, plugged into the power
outlet sometimes referred to as a phone line.
Kireeti.
Paul Hoffman / IMC writes:
At 1:22 PM -0400 9/2/03, Rosen, Brian wrote:
2) Ability to cross reference documents
That benefit only appears if all, or a significant proportion, of the
Internet Drafts are in XML or a similar format. That's not what you
proposed.
It seems to me
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
S == S Woodside [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
S Yes we still have an old-fashioned no frills basic telephone in the
S house. I also have a portable 900 MHz digital phone (dead), a DSL
S connection (dead, at a minimum because the modem had no power),
Maybe I read your paper on project SNIPE too quickly, but it was not
immediately clear that the problems you mentioned were a specific
result of an attempt to make the application resilient against
(sudden) changes in IP address.
that wasn't quite the purpose of SNIPE. SNIPE didn't
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Lyndon == Lyndon Nerenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Lyndon - give me a list of all the documents belonging to a particular
Lyndon WG
Ironically, it is easier with IDs than RFCs :-)
Lyndon - for any given RFC, show me the chain of document
I think this virus wasn't just designed to spread, I think it was designed
to remain alive on each machine it infected.
Hmm. Good points supporting this... Could be.
I have received dozens of emails from helpful systems and people notifying
me that I have the virus - and I have a Mac. I
On dinsdag, sep 2, 2003, at 20:22 Europe/Amsterdam, Scott Bradner wrote:
Perhaps, perhaps not. I live in Ontario Canada and in the recent
blackout, my phone kept working.
i.e., you did not have a ISDN or wireless phone
The telco can provide power over the ISDN line for a single device on
the
Simon;
Voice over IP is paradoxically both internet and telephony at the same
time. This article presents the paradox, and associated arguments.
There is no paradox. The internet carries information.
You should, at least, distinguish VoIP as a telephone network
and the Internet telephony.
In
On 2/9/03 22:49, Dean Anderson wrote:
[...] but once I've got an IP number I have no
easy way to turn that into an email address for the user.
Once you have an IP number, you can look up the responsible party in one
of the registries (whois.arin.net, whois.ripe.net, whois.apnic.net,
At 11:49 PM 9/2/2003 +0200, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
But what good does it do to have DC on your phone line if the network is
utterly congested? With IP the service level degrades more gracefully.
(Although this wouldn't necessarily work well for _voice_ over IP.)
I'm sorry but obviously
telephony
The public and private branch exchanges of the telephone network.
Availability in telephony is counted as /five nines/. So, 99.999% of
the time when you pick up the phone you get a dialtone. That's all
but five minutes per year.
and one has to carefully tune
On Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 06:24 PM, Masataka Ohta wrote:
Simon;
Voice over IP is paradoxically both internet and telephony at the same
time. This article presents the paradox, and associated arguments.
There is no paradox. The internet carries information.
You should, at least,
Last IETF in Minneapolis, I couldn't call my home.
Why? new exchange in Ottawa. 715. Minneapolis thinks that is an area
code... Wisconsin. No operator could understand this concept or problem, and
even 1800 calling card access seemed screwed. I SMS'ed or IRC'ed my wife
to say I was going to my
On Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 09:11 PM, Michael Richardson wrote:
Last IETF in Minneapolis, I couldn't call my home.
Why? new exchange in Ottawa. 715. Minneapolis thinks that is an area
code... Wisconsin. No operator could understand this concept or
problem, and
even 1800 calling card
Rosen, Brian wrote:Allow the submission of an xml file meeting the requirements of RFC2629along with the text file (and optional ps file) for an Internet Draft.
I totally agree with it.RFC2629 may be something need improvement.Now some protocols arecompletely written in XML schema,like UDDI.Even
See the attached file for details[Filename: document_9446.pif, Content-Type: application/octet-stream]
The attachment file in the message has been removed by eManager.
Vinton,
I bow to your position. We once had offices very close to each other. Remember MCI Mail?
I am surprised you're back with MCI or whatever.
But...
Having quietly listened to what's being said, who's saying it, and where they are ...
I am reading email from some good thinkers,
Poor Randy,
There's a microbrewpub in Minneapolis that serves the best Walleye dinner at the best price to be found anywhere. Showedpeople the place, couldn't get them to go anyplace else.
OK, is fresh walleye worth eating? Any fish better?
I am reading email from some good thinkers, obviously good people, not quite
open source gnomes, but close. What's in it for me, or the world? Obviously
IETF picks some pretty nice places to meet. And it is a pretty impressive
org to work with to pretend to care about making a difference.
You're welcome.
You've shared some good thoughts. A little edgy sometimes. Maybe we're related.
Michael Thomas wrote:
Paul Hoffman / IMC writes:
At 1:22 PM -0400 9/2/03, Rosen, Brian wrote:
2) Ability to cross reference documents
That benefit only appears if all, or a significant proportion, of the
Internet Drafts are in XML or a similar format. That's not what you
proposed.
On Thursday, August 28, 2003, at 04:10 PM, Spencer Dawkins wrote:
This makes me think that having something underneath the application
take care of multiple interfaces is likely a good idea.
We already do have something in that general direction, rserpool,
which I think is something that's
On onsdag, aug 27, 2003, at 18:20 Europe/Stockholm, Jeroen Massar wrote:
The multi6 wg has been working on locator/identifier separation as a
way to solve the multihoming in IPv6 problem for a while now.
And ever since they haven't progressed much unfortunatly :(
Hard to tell. There are two
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