Re: Proposed IESG Statement on the Conclusion of Experiments

2012-04-26 Thread ned+ietf
Ned, On Apr 25, 2012, at 7:31 PM, Ned Freed wrote: I see no value in deallocating code point spaces It depends on the size of the space. Why? Because if you deallocate and reallocate it, there can be conflicts. Perhaps you haven't noticed, but a lot of times people continue to use

Re: Proposed IESG Statement on the Conclusion of Experiments

2012-04-25 Thread Phillip Hallam-Baker
I see no value in deallocating code point spaces and a huge amount of potential harm. Except at the very lowest levels of the protocol stack (IP and BGP) there is really no technical need for a namespace that is limited. We do have some protocols that will come to a crisis some day but there are

Re: Proposed IESG Statement on the Conclusion of Experiments

2012-04-25 Thread David Conrad
On Apr 25, 2012, at 7:27 AM, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: Except at the very lowest levels of the protocol stack (IP and BGP) there is really no technical need for a namespace that is limited. Arguable, but irrelevant since the reality is that historically many (most?) protocols defined by the

Re: Proposed IESG Statement on the Conclusion of Experiments

2012-04-25 Thread ned+ietf
I see no value in deallocating code point spaces and a huge amount of potential harm. It depends on the size of the space. I completely agree that if the space is large - and that's almost always the case - then deallocating is going to be somewhere between silly and very damaging.

Re: Proposed IESG Statement on the Conclusion of Experiments

2012-04-25 Thread Phillip Hallam-Baker
+1 Deprecating a code point is very different from deallocating it which implies that it is going to be given out again in the future. Last thing I want is a used code point. I agree that avoiding multiple allocations is also a function of IANA, but this is also something that argues for not

Re: Proposed IESG Statement on the Conclusion of Experiments

2012-04-25 Thread Phillip Hallam-Baker
Not arguable in the fashion that you do. You seem to want to signal disagreement without needing to actually argue a contrary case. Cutting pieces out of someone's argument to make it look stupid is itself a stupid trick. On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 12:55 PM, David Conrad d...@virtualized.org

Re: Proposed IESG Statement on the Conclusion of Experiments

2012-04-25 Thread David Conrad
Ned, On Apr 25, 2012, at 10:46 AM, Ned Freed wrote: I see no value in deallocating code point spaces and a huge amount of potential harm. It depends on the size of the space. Why? We're talking about completed experiments. I'm unclear I see any particular value in having IANA staff

Re: Proposed IESG Statement on the Conclusion of Experiments

2012-04-25 Thread ned+ietf
Ned, On Apr 25, 2012, at 10:46 AM, Ned Freed wrote: I see no value in deallocating code point spaces and a huge amount of potential harm. It depends on the size of the space. Why? Because if you deallocate and reallocate it, there can be conflicts. Perhaps you haven't noticed, but a

Re: Proposed IESG Statement on the Conclusion of Experiments

2012-04-25 Thread David Conrad
Ned, On Apr 25, 2012, at 7:31 PM, Ned Freed wrote: I see no value in deallocating code point spaces It depends on the size of the space. Why? Because if you deallocate and reallocate it, there can be conflicts. Perhaps you haven't noticed, but a lot of times people continue to use stuff

Re: Proposed IESG Statement on the Conclusion of Experiments

2012-04-20 Thread Eric Burger
I have to admit to laughing out loud when I saw the IESG's announcement. Why? What is more important: cycling out Experimental RFC's or promoting Proposed Standards to Internet Standards? Do I hear chirping in the audience? If we need to focus spare cycles anywhere, I would offer progressing

RE: Proposed IESG Statement on the Conclusion of Experiments

2012-04-20 Thread Adrian Farrel
: Proposed IESG Statement on the Conclusion of Experiments Hi, On Apr 19, 2012, at 22:31, Adrian Farrel wrote: The IESG has been discussing how to tidy up after Experimental RFCs. We have developed the following draft IESG statement. This does not represent a change in process

Re: Proposed IESG Statement on the Conclusion of Experiments

2012-04-20 Thread Randy Presuhn
Hi - From: Randy Bush ra...@psg.com To: Adrian Farrel adr...@olddog.co.uk Cc: IETF Disgust ietf@ietf.org; IESG i...@ietf.org Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 2:04 AM Subject: Re: Proposed IESG Statement on the Conclusion of Experiments one aspect that may be missed is that there is a body

Re: Proposed IESG Statement on the Conclusion of Experiments

2012-04-20 Thread Dave Crocker
On 4/20/2012 6:36 AM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: What about the idea of requiring new Experimental documents to include text that indicates when the experiment is to be considered completed absent new work on it? Essentially, the document declares a date by which the experiment is considered

Re: Proposed IESG Statement on the Conclusion of Experiments

2012-04-19 Thread Eliot Lear
Hi Adrian, I do not support such a view, and it is not supported in a plain reading of RFC 2026. What's more, it's not how researchers work. Researchers naturally move on. If we are looking to further push researchers away from the IRTF, this is a good way to do it. Whether or not an

Re: Proposed IESG Statement on the Conclusion of Experiments

2012-04-19 Thread Yoav Nir
RFC 2026 says this about Experimental RFCs: The Experimental designation typically denotes a specification that is part of some research or development effort. However, I do not believe that this is still typical. Authors come up with ideas that they think are useful. If when the

Re: Proposed IESG Statement on the Conclusion of Experiments

2012-04-19 Thread Andrew Sullivan
On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 12:17:46AM +0300, Yoav Nir wrote: The Experimental designation typically denotes a specification that is part of some research or development effort. However, I do not believe that this is still typical. Authors come up with ideas that they think are useful.