Re: [ietf-dkim] Discussion lists and broadcast lists are not the same thing

2010-09-28 Thread J.D. Falk
On Sep 24, 2010, at 11:05 AM, John Levine wrote: Do concepts generalize enough to allow issuing draft-ietf-dkim-mailinglists also for these authoring MLMs? No. All of the complications in mailing lists arise from the fact that the author of the message is not related to the operator of the

Re: [ietf-dkim] Discussion lists and broadcast lists are not the same thing

2010-09-28 Thread Steve Atkins
On Sep 28, 2010, at 11:34 AM, J.D. Falk wrote: On Sep 24, 2010, at 11:05 AM, John Levine wrote: Do concepts generalize enough to allow issuing draft-ietf-dkim-mailinglists also for these authoring MLMs? No. All of the complications in mailing lists arise from the fact that the author

[ietf-dkim] Discussion lists and broadcast lists are not the same thing

2010-09-24 Thread Wietse Venema
Alessandro Vesely: On 23/Sep/10 21:16, John R. Levine wrote: All of this emphasis on complex designs for MLMs strikes me as a waste of time, since it's a tiny corner of the mail space that has not historically been a vector for abuse, and shows no sign of becoming one. That's why my

Re: [ietf-dkim] Discussion lists and broadcast lists are not the same thing

2010-09-24 Thread Jeff Macdonald
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 8:40 AM, Wietse Venema wie...@porcupine.org wrote: Alessandro Vesely: On 23/Sep/10 21:16, John R. Levine wrote: All of this emphasis on complex designs for MLMs strikes me as a waste of time, since it's a tiny corner of the mail space that has not historically been

Re: [ietf-dkim] Discussion lists and broadcast lists are not the same thing

2010-09-24 Thread Dave CROCKER
On 9/24/2010 7:52 AM, Jeff Macdonald wrote: It may be productive if we distinguish between two-way discussion lists where participants send mail to the list, and one-way broadcast lists where only the owner (or their agent) sends mail to the list. The difference between these is to be large

Re: [ietf-dkim] Discussion lists and broadcast lists are not the same thing

2010-09-24 Thread Hector Santos
Wietse Venema wrote: According to Murray's definition, MLMs include ESPs and email marketers, which originate a volume of traffic and have historically been a vector for abuse. Indeed, except for subscription mechanisms and deployed software, most of the problems are similar. It may be

Re: [ietf-dkim] Discussion lists and broadcast lists are not the same thing

2010-09-24 Thread Alessandro Vesely
On 24/Sep/10 17:06, Dave CROCKER wrote: On 9/24/2010 7:52 AM, Jeff Macdonald wrote: It may be productive if we distinguish between two-way discussion lists where participants send mail to the list, and one-way broadcast lists where only the owner (or their agent) sends mail to the list.

Re: [ietf-dkim] Discussion lists and broadcast lists are not the same thing

2010-09-24 Thread Jeff Macdonald
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Alessandro Vesely ves...@tana.it wrote: On 24/Sep/10 17:06, Dave CROCKER wrote: On 9/24/2010 7:52 AM, Jeff Macdonald wrote:  It may be productive if we distinguish between two-way discussion lists  where participants send mail to the list, and one-way

Re: [ietf-dkim] Discussion lists and broadcast lists are not the same thing

2010-09-24 Thread John Levine
Do concepts generalize enough to allow issuing draft-ietf-dkim-mailinglists also for these authoring MLMs? No. All of the complications in mailing lists arise from the fact that the author of the message is not related to the operator of the list. Even though ESPs are generally sending mail