[The Java Posse] Early access to Devoxx talks at Parleys.com via $75 subscription

On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 2:11 AM, Reinier Zwitserloot wrote: > I was listening to Michael Ernst's amazing pluggable type checker > framework talk which conflicted with Dick Wall's, but I'll grab a > parleys subscription so I can view it when Stefan Janssen and cohorts > finish polishing up the vide

[The Java Posse] Re: Closures, too much or too little?

I'm not trying to be a jackass, just giving honest advice: Bill: Proof is in the pudding. Test it, write up a report, with pretty charts. If you're right and there's a performance issue, take it to the hill and start yelling. With proof, nobody can shut you up, and discussion will commence about u

[The Java Posse] Re: Closures, too much or too little?

Okay, I made a mistake and overstated the case on Neal's proposal. I *knew* it wasn't anything official, and I guessed he wrote it in response to the closure proposal. That was my mistake. Everything else in there is true. Bill: silently generated interfaces is a part of BGGA and the CFJ variant o

[The Java Posse] Re: Java 7 Slippage - good or bad news?

One-liners, Inline... On Nov 20, 7:32 pm, Jess Holle wrote: > > There is no such claim. dot instead gains an extra possible meaning > > (pass ref to extension method). > > That's just ambiguous and confusing rather than a lie then. dot already means a thousand things. Now it means 1001 things. S

[The Java Posse] Re: public final fields: a best practice?

immutable is a heavily overloaded term. I would guess that dick is referring to immutable references (final fields) pointing to immutable objects. I've done this myself, and later regretted it, as I wanted to dynamically calculate a field lazily after a version rev, which wasn't possible. All thin

[The Java Posse] Re: The builder pattern in Dick's Devoxx presentation

I was listening to Michael Ernst's amazing pluggable type checker framework talk which conflicted with Dick Wall's, but I'll grab a parleys subscription so I can view it when Stefan Janssen and cohorts finish polishing up the videos. This sounds like an interesting idea I've never seen before, and

[The Java Posse] Re: public final fields: a best practice?

I don't know specifically what dick was talking about, but my concerns are: - does this give you dual methodologies for field access? members vs getters - a reference may be final (maybe immutable) now, but what do you do if your class evolves to where the reference is now mutable? - even thoug

[The Java Posse] public final fields: a best practice?

At his Devoxx talk, Dick casually mentioned that making final fields public was now a best practice. I do this sometimes on my non-work projects, but feel a little dirty. I doubt it would fly at work. I thought it was too trivial a point to bring up as a question after the talk, but what do you gu

Re: [The Java Posse] The builder pattern in Dick's Devoxx presentation

IIRC, it was a series of single-method interfaces. Each method returned the Builder type, except the "last" method, which returned the target type. The builder implemented all the interfaces and returned this for every implemented method. The point was to have the IDE's auto-complete guide you thr

[The Java Posse] Re: Closures, too much or too little?

> This version is based on > CLang, > but with # instead of ^.  # is used for method references because that is > the syntax in javadoc.  I would prefer ^ rather than # for function types > and lambdas, but the current spec uses #

[The Java Posse] Re: Java 7 Slippage - good or bad news?

On Nov 20, 8:55 pm, RichardVowles wrote: > Beat your agile drum all you like, if there are no features > worthwhile, people won't bother with it. Perfect example: JDK6. The > world does not need another JDK6. I'm not sure I follow that argument. If the other features aren't worth while, why save

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Java 7 Slippage - good or bad news?

RichardVowles wrote: > Beat your agile drum all you like, if there are no features > worthwhile, people won't bother with it. Perfect example: JDK6. The > world does not need another JDK6. > So, why a relevant part of the world is using JDK6 in your opinion? BTW, another large part is still usi

[The Java Posse] Re: Java 7 Slippage - good or bad news?

Beat your agile drum all you like, if there are no features worthwhile, people won't bother with it. Perfect example: JDK6. The world does not need another JDK6. Now back to Jess's hilarious arguments. Can't say I've laughed so hard in ages! On Nov 20, 10:27 am, "Vince O'Sullivan" wrote: > On No

[The Java Posse] The builder pattern in Dick's Devoxx presentation

Hello Dick, In your presentation at Devoxx this week (which was very interesting!) you showed a slide that demonstrated a builder pattern in Java, with a number of interfaces. It looked interesting, but I forgot the exact details of how it looked. Can you please share it here? regards Jesper de J

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Java 7 Slippage - good or bad news?

Casper Bang wrote: > Nobody sees value in having a small and tight core, which can be > decorated by importing features/aspects from a 3'rd part, 4'th part > etc? It can work really well. It's very valuable and my preferred way of designing things. Generally speaking, my preferred way to see tha

[The Java Posse] Re: Closures, too much or too little?

Certainly virtual machines (and real machines) are better now, but I still don't think thats enough. One of the arguments in favor of method handles though, is that they will let other languages perform better because they don't have to generate classes for everything. There's supposed to be highe

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Closures, too much or too little?

Andreas Petersson wrote: > the same argument was brought forward against scala which generates more > classes than visible for the eye when looking at the source code. > I think that is only the case if you have individual .class files > hanging around on your disk. With a single .jar file an ext

[The Java Posse] Re: RESTful vs SOAP Web Services

Take a look at Jersey (REST). It's simple and powerful, one of the few real good examples I know of which uses annotations rather than abuse them. Great management by Sun's Paul Sandoz and a friendly/helpful community. Do yourself a favor and forget about SOAP and the enterprise bloat of WS*. /Cas

[The Java Posse] Re: Java 7 Slippage - good or bad news?

Nobody sees value in having a small and tight core, which can be decorated by importing features/aspects from a 3'rd part, 4'th part etc? It can work really well. Can it be abused? Certainly, just like anything else. Static imports are nice, but less powerful and composes really bad with one anothe

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Closures, too much or too little?

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Jess Holle wrote: > I am heartened to hear that the spec referenced is not *too* official > yet. I don't have any *big *issues with it -- but on a syntactic level I > just really don't like the use of #. It seems oddly out of place when > compared to closures

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Closures, too much or too little?

the same argument was brought forward against scala which generates more classes than visible for the eye when looking at the source code. I think that is only the case if you have individual .class files hanging around on your disk. With a single .jar file an extra class file or two won't hurt

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Closures, too much or too little?

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 11:00 AM, Fabrizio Giudici < fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it> wrote: > This thing is becoming a mess of rumors and urban myths... can please > somebody who's well informed (possibly one of the key players) try to recap > the *correct* situation in a blog post? > I'd like tha

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Closures, too much or too little?

Fabrizio Giudici wrote: > gafter wrote: >> On Nov 19, 9:00 am, Reinier Zwitserloot wrote: >>> Neal wrote that >>> changed spec AFTER the presentation, and AFTER that BOF session. It's >>> basically BGGA with non-local control transfer taken out. It could >>> form a basis for further discussion,

[The Java Posse] Re: Closures, too much or too little?

Sheesh, I can't type. I was referring to the early days of Swing. When the all of the anonymous listener classes killed your GUI start- up time due to all of the class loading. On Nov 20, 2:07 pm, Bill Robertson wrote: > IIRC, I saw something about a silently generated interface as part of > the

[The Java Posse] Re: Closures, too much or too little?

IIRC, I saw something about a silently generated interface as part of the implementation the closure. Is this correct? Am I the only one who remember some of the bad early days when oodles of tiny classes killed your startup time? Weren't method handles just approved for JDK 7? If so then why

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Closures, too much or too little?

gafter wrote: > On Nov 19, 9:00 am, Reinier Zwitserloot wrote: > >> Neal wrote that >> changed spec AFTER the presentation, and AFTER that BOF session. It's >> basically BGGA with non-local control transfer taken out. It could >> form a basis for further discussion, but that is about as far rem

[The Java Posse] Re: Closures, too much or too little?

On Nov 19, 9:00 am, Reinier Zwitserloot wrote: > Neal wrote that > changed spec AFTER the presentation, and AFTER that BOF session. It's > basically BGGA with non-local control transfer taken out. It could > form a basis for further discussion, but that is about as far removed > from an official s

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Java 7 Slippage - good or bad news?

Reinier Zwitserloot wrote: > inline responses... > > On Nov 20, 5:48 pm, Jess Holle wrote: > >> It's a lie in that it claims that list has a sort() method. >> > There is no such claim. dot instead gains an extra possible meaning > (pass ref to extension method). > That's just ambiguous

Re: [The Java Posse] JMX web console apps?

I have played with jManage - it's the closest thing to what I'm looking for in that it is browser based and also has (which I didn't mention) the ability to have some sort of (poor mans) role based access control in that an admin can configure connections and dashboards and then a "read only" accou

[The Java Posse] Re: Java 7 Slippage - good or bad news?

inline responses... On Nov 20, 5:48 pm, Jess Holle wrote: > It's a lie in that it claims that list has a sort() method. There is no such claim. dot instead gains an extra possible meaning (pass ref to extension method). > Readability should not rely upon a fancy IDE.  I love my IDE, but the >

[The Java Posse] RESTful vs SOAP Web Services

Hey All, I am currently looking into RESTful vs SOAP Web Services, any thoughts on pros and cons for each and possible frameworks for implementing either or both. Thanks -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group,

Re: [The Java Posse] JMX web console apps?

jManage is the free, open source entry that I'm familiar with in this space. It has loads of limitations. Otherwise I'd suggest giving up on a web console and going with VisualVM. It's essentially jconsole and more -- including abilities to remember and discover JMX connections. Sean Comerfo

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Java 7 Slippage - good or bad news?

Reinier Zwitserloot wrote: > The reason extension methods are inevitable is because of java's rigid > adherence to backwards compatibility. So, if you have to be backwards > compatible, and interfaces like java.util.List will NEVER change (even > WITH versioning, as lists are routinely transferred

[The Java Posse] JMX web console apps?

I'm looking for a web application that I can configure to act as a "dashboard" for a bunch of JMX connections to various remote Java server instances / processes. I want to be able to easily point and click to see all the standard jconsole things like CPU + memory utilization for multiple instance

[The Java Posse] Re: Java 7 Slippage - good or bad news?

The reason extension methods are inevitable is because of java's rigid adherence to backwards compatibility. So, if you have to be backwards compatible, and interfaces like java.util.List will NEVER change (even WITH versioning, as lists are routinely transferred across modules - that's Mark Reinho

[The Java Posse] Chrome OS and Java?

Anyone know if and how Java related technologies will be supported by Chrome OS? Chrome OS will support Flash, HTML 5, O3D, and if Chrome will run the browser version of Microsoft Excel, I believe that means Chrome OS will support Silverlight. I didn't hear anything about Java, but I'd assume that

[The Java Posse] Oracle, Flex and MOS - JavaFX?

Hi Java Posse, As we are all trying to read the glass-bowl regarding JavaFX. Here is a quick write-up of mine - Several days ago I noticed a news article that Oracle switched over to their new support system, which is entirely Flex-based. Not sure whether this means anything regarding the future o

[The Java Posse] Re: Mark Reinhold on jigsaw - live notes from devoxx.

GREAT post. Thank you... On Nov 19, 12:52 pm, Reinier Zwitserloot wrote: > Notes from his presentation at devoxx, 17:40-18:40 Central European > Time, November 19th, 2009. > > Section 1: Problems and Solutions (why jigsaw, what is it trying to > solve? Subtext: What is it trying to solve that OS

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Java 7 Slippage - good or bad news?

Hmmm I guess Overall, I think it is preferable to have Collections.sort( list ); rather than list.sort(); If 'list' does not actually provide a sort() method. Having extension methods allow "list.sort()" [as suggested in the short example at the link provided] essentially i

[The Java Posse] Re: Java 7 Slippage - good or bad news?

It's also rumored that extension methods [http://www.javac.info/ ExtensionMethods.html] might be on the table again. That would excite me as much as closures, as a way to supplement/migrate API's, rather than the typical ivory tower approach of assuming perfection/ completion the first go-round - w