Okay. Here is an interesting case. I'd like to hear what you all think.
So, You have been retained by Acme Insurance and Pinnacle Protection as a
judge, and here is the case they present to you.
Mr and Mrs A own a small store. Ms B was their employee. Ms B also lived
with the A's, and they
> The problem arises with the faux Pacifists. They oppose Violence so
> assiduously that they propose to punish me (by Force) when I exact
> Vengeance. Hypocrisy at its finest.
>
No. anyone who initiates violence against you oor anyone foolish enough to
accept you as their agent, is buying al
> What's your point? Someone fucks up a press release and I'm the bad guy
> for catching it? Every criticism or value judgment of any sort on this
> Group is henceforth going to draw your eloquent denunciation?
>
Who elected you to decide who's a libertarian or not? You're making an
arroga
> Sounds like PACIFISTS, not libertarians:
> "... a movement that rejects the use of violence or coercion"
> http://www.libertopia.org/home/
Then DON'T GO! Hurr Durr!
Jay ~Meow!~
> The issue is "restitution" vs "retribution/revenge".
Agreed. Perhaps I wasn't clear.
When i said Libertopia doesn't do "Punishment" well, i was considering this
a positive aspect.
Even if considered in the negative light, I think it would be a good
exchange to make for a society and a cu
> The issue is "restitution" vs "retribution/revenge".
Agreed. Perhaps I wasn't clear.
When i said Libertopia doesn't do "Punishment" well, i was considering this
a positive aspect.
Even if considered in the negative light, I think it would be a good
exchange to make for a society and a cu
> It ain't Libertopia yet. We're working on that.
> --
> Ward Griffithswdg...@comcast.net
The U.S is heading the WRONG WAY.
Like Yogi Berra Said "If we keep on going the way we're going, we're going
to wind up where we're heading."
And that's the opposite of Libertopia
But our neigh
> I don't think I said we don't use bombs. Lots of good engineering uses
> for explosives. I said we don't use them against human beings, because
> they're sloppy and kill uninvolved bystanders.
Again you assume someone who can PARSE that, or juudge what the effect of
being a dumbass with exp
> Jay, I love you like a brother, but you still don't understand
> libertarianism. We will defend ourselves against folks doing stuff to us,
> we won't do things to other folks. The Zero Aggression Principle is too
> simple to play in Network News.
>
> --
> Ward Griffithswdg...@comcas
> Bad example: there was no INTENT. I never sadi anything about real Torts.
> Rephrase your scenario in terms of am intentional ATTEMPT TO INITIATE
> FORCE and I'll show you a neat surprise.
How do you prove intent?
because I am not going to shoot anybody because yoou say he had a bad intent
> Libertarian society CAN punish violations of the Non-Aggression
> Principle.. It is entirely moral to have a
> Justice League that helps Victims hunt down and punish Aggressors. After
> all, enforcing NAP is never
> a violation of NAP.
Only if you know for absolutely certain that the target
> For example, Michael Jackson hired a Witch Doctor to cast a spell that
> would harm an enemy.
> It turned out that Witch Doctors cannot actually cast spells that harm
> people, but Jackson was
> too stupid to know that; he definitely INTENDED to do what he could to
> harm his enemy by
> Forc
>> * I assume that a monetary value can be assessed for a human life,
>
> Can't be done, though insurance companies try to pretend it's easy.
> --
> Ward Griffithswdg...@comcast.net
Ward, it seems like you only half read what I was posting. I appreciate
your response, but I am not goi
We do not write > When I get to Libertopia I'll send you a postcard.
Screw that, Send me DIRECTIONS! :) :
> He has Initiated Force against some people (those who might have
> been harmed if he had been a little smarter). Therefore anyone
> who was at risk, AND anyone who is a friend of such a person
> and is asked to retaliate, may blow the sonofabitch away without
> Initiating Force - it is only a R
> There will be people who have the skill to come up with satisfactory
> answers to such dilemma.
I think that this amounts to kicking the can down thhe road, there Curt.
Although I agree wiith you - specialization and large numbers will come up
with better answers than we could -
that does no
I was driving along with my friend today
We were discussing the Tines Square Bombing attempt.
The suspect is alleged - note these two words - he is a suspect because he has
NOT been found guilty, and his actions are alleged because they haven't been
proven by evidence.
But leaving that aside
Okay. I was listening to the Frontline podcast
The episode I listened to was about the credit ccard industry.
It tracked a period of time from 1980 to the present.
It discussed a credit provider named Providian.
A retired big-wig of Providian described how the ads and offers were
tailored to
> This is in no way a net increase in Liberty!
Zack won't like it! He hates Everything!
I think he's correct, though. Mary Jane is a small issue - and one that
undercuts a lot of liberty advocates on the far left. If OBama's for
decriminalizing pot, he must be Okay!
Meannwhile the Obama ad
> Phillies tries to frame this as a question of
> Government intrusion
> into "The Bedroom". It is not.
Ummm. Okay. Now, if you wanted to marry my rowboat,
just intrincically, I'd consider you a looney.
Now if you wanted to marry my rowboat to gain a tax
incentive I'd consider you a cynical
> The issue here is about SPECIAL PRIVILEGES conferred
> by Government Force.
I covered this in my reply to Samantrha. being
married or not shouldn't change someone's essential
rights - including the right not to be coerced.
Jay ~Meow!~
> Now, if you don't mind someone screwing around
> with your boat, then you must defer to the idea of
> mating
> with you property.
> Ummm, is your house up for consideration ... ?
>
> ET
You'll have to ask the property management company. We
rent.
Were I a property owner, I'd includ
>
> Sam,
> I totally agree!
>
> Damn, how about that: I've actually found a woman I
> can
> agree with!
>
> ET
Mister Totty, if she'd signed her e-mail "John Doe"
would you have hassled her about being an
Incrementalist?
I fear many will. For a group centered on individua
> Disagree in part. The government ought not be
> allowed to have any
> part is marriages and other arrangements of this
> kind between any two
> or any number of consenting adults.
I totally agree with you here, Samantha.
> But given that
> the government is
> involved in this area it sh
> He also fails to include POLYGAMY in his rant,
> although all of his
> arguments apply equally there. As usual, it's all
> about the queers!
> (For that matter, his arguments, if you accept them,
> apply also to
> marrying a robot or a rowboat or a horse (with
> permission of the Owner
> of cour
> NO ONE ought
> to be allowed to get a Government Marriage License
> and be entitled to
> the Special Privileges it confers.
Agreed.
Jay ~Meow!~
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for
> If Health Care or Education is a Basic Right, and
> that means that The
> Government ought to FORCE someone to provide that
> Health Care or
> Education to me, then since Marriage is a Basic
> Right, that means the
> government ought to FORCE someone to provide me at
> least one Spouse.
> Hope I
> In honor of Aaron Russo, I have excerpted the audio
from his last
> interview with Alex Jones for those who have dialup
and cannot
> download the video from http://Infowars.com/
> or Google:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5420753830426590918
>
> Audio only is here:
http://simmeringfro
> I say, sue them all and let the jury sort it out.
You know, I was
> planning to
> spend a weekend in Montreal, but have decided
against it. Who knows what
> offense I've already paid the fine on is lurking in
that government-run
> database?
>
> Frank Ney
Canada! Come for the Biting Cold, s
>> Why not also insist that the government obey and
enforce the laws
>> regarding immigration that currently exist?
> Point #1: I was responding/objecting to the
non-libertarian statement
> that attempted to justify immigration control
because of the welfare
> system, which is a completely inval
> Using lame claims by Cheney and other criminals to
pull us into
> another war under false pretenses is something that
a libertarian
> should be able to spot.
>
> Perhaps I was mistaken.
Zack Bass is not a Libertarian. He is a Conservative.
Jay ~Meow!~
__
> Well, we'll see just how dull you are, when you get
picked
> up, dropped down, kicked up (you don't want to be
knocked up, do
> you?), knocked down, punched around, kicked into the
corner and
> 'water-boarded' into submission, eh?
I'll be as dull as possible. BTW, the plans are in
the f-ing R2
>I don't worry about spyware,
I don't worry about spy ware either. I am just that
goddamned dull.
Jay ~Meow!~
Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car
Finder tool.
h
> We are almost to the point that if one has a black
cat, one can be
> burned for being a witch!
Then I am in the deep stuff. I have three.
Jay ~meow!~
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> You forgot the mass shooting at the Wiccan Outreach
Adult Daycare Center.
> --
> Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Yes, We forgot, the despondent Jay P Hailey was shot
several more times,
severely cursed and is now the topic of scurrilous
rumors and fierce
back-biting among th
> Are you running Linux? I have written a simple Unix
filter that
> removes 50% of the commas in a text file... you are
invited to run it
> as many times as needed until your message is
legible.
That there totally elevates the tone of the
discussion, Dude.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
>> I'm part of the Conspiracy, and I can tell you from
>> the inside ACK
> Damn JP...Now we will have to flashy thingy the
entire conference... ^^
Jay P hailey Became depressed and despondent, he
accidentally cut himself
into seven pieces with a chain saw, set himself
> See, the problem is that the more people you claim
are in on the
> Conspiracy, the less plausible you are.
> So... everyone who concurred in the decision to fire
him is now in on
> the Conspiracy too?
> At some point you'd think one of these guys might
spill the beans.
I'm part of the Conspirac
> On Friday 20 April 2007 20:46, ejt was heard to say:
>> It might interest you to know, that Boeing
airliners still use
>> control cables for flight functions.
I know that brakes on American built heavy trucks also
must have a physical
connection top the brake pedal. ieven if the whole
system
> It would have to go up high enough to cause SERIOUS
> disruptions before they become practical...By that
time,
> we'd have much more serious issues to deal
with...Think of
> what happens if it gets high enough to start
impacting the
> national and global economy.
It's going to. You can see the
> I see the ushering in of the Mero as a bait and
switch to offset the
> collapsing of the dollar economy, dragging in
another 150 million
> people to help service debt.
Mero? North American Union Monetary Unit?
Heh. Interesting notion.
Jay ~Meow!~
_
>> B) Peak Oil is quite real and we do not have an
alternative that can be
>> brought online fast enough to avoid major
disruption.
The problem with the Peak oil theory is that reserves
of coal and Canadian
tar sands have enough energy in them to keep up with
current demand for the
next 300 yea
> Two things.
> First: New Mexico has voted for Impeachment in the
first of 3 steps to
> Impeach.
I don't care about the details. Anything that gives
the Powers that be a
hard tme is okay with me. Sure it's not enough, but
it's something. That's
better than sitting back and whining.
Jay ~Me
> the mind is its own place, and in itself can make a
> hell of heaven, or a heaven of hell
My experience is that we all make our own heaven and
hell.
Jay ~Meow!~
The fish are biting.
Get more visitors on
> Well said, but it gives me no hope.
No one outside of you is going to give ou any hope -
your mental condition
isn't dependant on outside conditions - Your attitude
is entirely up to you.
If you want to be depressed and wallow in hopelessness
then do it. But if
you dislike feeling that way
> Preach to me about victory, I might lend you an ear.
Live free. Make it a personal philosophy and then do
it.
the system's fucked, we can't chnge it from the top or
the middle - has to
be from the bottom up.
And that means doing Liberty every day. Not
necessarily talking it to
death.
Jay
> I am a libertarian, sorta, maybe, at least once was.
> I still am, probably. But as someone here said
before,
> I really don't care.
Have you had any fun at all in the last 6 months?
Because you sound thoroughl bummed to me. A downer
attitude will kill you
quicker than the hapless boobns dow
> Unlike you, I see the world around me.
>
> It is not libertarian and it ain't gonna change.
Whine, whine, whine and cry.
I am still looking for an MP3 of that Hee Haw piece.
"Doom, Despair and
Agony on me!"
Life is too short. Run outide and play.
Seriously - If we're not having fun what's t
>> But you probably gained 100 trivia iq points. Win
some lose some.
I'd trade them back.
Jay ~Meow!~
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
http://t
> I see the Madonna's of this world are clowns, court
jesters if you will.
Precisely. She is a professional Silly person, and
very, very good at her
job. 1/3rd musician, 1/3rd performance artist and
100% attention whore.
What bothers me is how much attention enetrgy and
detail goies into payi
> >Now - what does it tell us when someone constructs
> an
> >argument that avoids Free Will like a gaping blind
> spot?
>
>
> Umm, let me guess: They are sightless ass holes?
>
> ET
That they have some wird prioblem with free will in
any case.
Why m
Item in the TLE #404> "The externalities of depictions
of violence and
pornography
> are clear. To complaints about those products being
on the market,
> libertarians respond with something like 'Just hit
the remote
> control and change channels on your TV set.' But,
like the
> person who chooses
> Well, I dunno there.
> Isn't there a problem with non-performance
> of contract?
>
> ET
Only if you have some way to enforce the contract.
Jay ~meow!~
Never miss an email again!
Yahoo! Toolbar alerts yo
> Well, I dunno there.
> Isn't there a problem with non-performance
> of contract?
>
> ET
Only if you have some way to enforce the contract.
Jay ~meow!~
Never miss an email again!
Yahoo! Toolbar alerts yo
> 7. Then hit this link:
http://www.thecleverest.com/countdown.swf
Your might encourage freedom - the way that
shoe-bomber did.
"Hit him AGAIN!!"
I figure federales would be LINING UP to kick your ass
for that one. "Ooo,
that's funny. [SMACK!] we're all laughin`! [SMACK!]
Ain't we laughin`?
> Leave well enough alone.
>
> ET
Gawd in Heaven - IF ONLY
Jay ~Meow!~
No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail
A most excellent piece of writing!> Excerpt:
> "It may be an IRS agent when you ask -- better yet,
demand -- to see what
> law, if any, makes you liable for an "income" tax.
And throws your ass illegally into the illegal
hoosegow.
Ah but you said that.
Jay ~Meow!~
Uncle Blood Sucker spoils dream trip to space> Story
Highlights
> * A 31-year-old space buff who won a free trip to
space can't go
Well of course. Do you remember how NASA and the
government screeched when
Dennis what's 'is name bought a trip to Mir?
NASA is everything wrong with the governme
> Here's one that I'm a little surprised hasn't seen
much dissemination:
> Bill S. 1 requires bloggers with a readership of
more than 500 to
> register with the FedGov as "lobbyists." Some
details:
Yeee. That's going to get totally enforced.
Jay ~Meow!~
__
I am serious - A direct statement of the rights
inherent in a human being.
Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
Jay ~meow!~
__
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> Will wonders NEVER cease?!? To think that I might
actually have
> a sense of humor that you might approve of JP.
^^
go right ahead.
:)
Jay ~Meow!~
__
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http://mai
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] An interesting
proposition>In any case:
No thanks. I've already been there, been threatened,
> and have no desire to face idiots wishing to stuff
their pockets with my
> cash. The only thing I have left to fill anything is
lead.
> ET
Threatened? Who threatened
> I still think a "Totty Touts" column makes sense.
I don't think that's a bad idea.
Jay ~meow!~
__
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> Notice the source of that blood? Tyrants AND
patriots. Jefferson was
> a realist, who understood that real tyranny once
established, will be
> most unlikely to end quietly. History does tend to
repeat itself...Mainly
> because people didn't learn the last time.
I'd ask if you had a blue sticker
> I don't know.
> I consider that the all the more appropriate title
should
> have been 'A bill of things for intellectually
dishonest judges and
> politicians to equivocate over.'
>
> At least then, the people would have understood the
real
> impetus behind jerks like Hamilton and company, who
cou
> On 9-11-2001, I made the same remark.
> They declared such, again.
> ET
The sun comes up Thursday jan 04 2007 0- congress
calls for more Gun
Control.
Jay ~Meow!~
__
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> Which reminds me, I heartily recommend Richard
Dawkins' _The God
> Delusion_. I took the jacket off the book because,
living in darkest
> North Carolina, I'd likely get lynched by
"respectable" types.
>
> The "fan mail" he reprints is astounding, much like
what John R. Lott
> reports getting
> Unless you carefully read the BOR. It does not
grant
> any rights, it instead reiterates and protects
already
> existing rights.
>
> BWS
Is there a more clear statement of the rights inherent
in a person?
The BOR is a list of restrictions against government
action - it illuminates
rights by d
> Power does lead to control...But control of what,
and by whom?
The desire for control leads to power. The desire for
power reveals a deep,
deep seated uncertainty -lack of confidence and an
inflated sense of
entitlement.
There's also, pain, anger, the force, an authortarian
muppet, betrayal, ba
> Why do you say that!?! What are you getting at?!?
>
> Chris C.
THE COMPUTER IS OUR FRIEND!!!
Jay ~Meow!~
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Huh. I feel Bad!
- Original Message -
From: "Amber Thompson"
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 12:42 PM
Subject: [teroknor] 'Godfather of Soul' James Brown dies
> ATLANTA (Reuters) - James Brown, the "Godfather of Soul" whose frenetic
> singing style and bold rhy
> >Haven't you called me a closet statist once or
twice
>
> Jay,
>
> Only in passing, and even then in jest! ;-)
> Have a merry one, or whatever ...
> ET
And you. politics is one thing. How we treat each
other is where the rubber
meets the road.
Thanks for your entertaining message this year Mr
> "everything, and EVERYONE?"
>
> Etu, Brutus, etu?
>
> ET
No. I don't eat U.
:) :) :)
Haven't you called me a closet statist once or twice
alright?
Jay ~Meow!~
__
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> Remember this - if no thing else ...
>
http://www.lewrockwell.com/engelhardt/engelhardt250.html
My Dad was in the U.S. Navy from 1933 to 1945. He
stopped in Vietnam in
1936.
My Half Brother joined the Navy and was assigned as
Corpsman in Vietnam.
My Dad told him "Forget all that capitalist
> The Seattle PI is most definitely
communistic/socialistic/fascistic.
> But the Times?
> Maybe I just woke up.
Eventually you'll find everything and everyone but you
is a statist.
Jay ~Meow!~
__
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> It was a facetious remark.
> Though maybe not as obvious as i thought...
It was,
But it gave me a chance to run up to the "Free Market
Security" bell and
ring it.
Jay ~Meow!~
__
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> I have met very few youths I would be comfortable
let handle
> a weapon because of their judgement skills . Of
course I've met
> a few adults who shouldn't be allowed near shaving
implements,
> let alone firearms so... I'm jaded.
If you can't trust folks with sharp things or
bang-sticks - then t
> Maybe we should make learning the Queen's English a
requirement for
> anyone dealing with the public.
Requirement? And how would you enforce it?
The Seattle PD just damaged their credibility. If
there was a legal
alternative, they'd be loosing sales.
which would motivate themto hire a spokes
> I did not allow them to represent me in this manner.
> I am not a collectivist. I therefore am not guilty.
Thank you. We're victims here. Perhaps too pliable,
but that doesn't
equal culpability.
However to a collectivist - failing to rise up against
the US government
makes us co-conspirator
> Susan Wells
> Replacement.
Welcome back Susan!!
Jay ~Meow!~
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
> As Alice once said: Things are getting curiouser and
curiouser ...
> One wonders: Do we attribute this to malice, or
stupidity?
Yahoo. Stupidity.
Jay ~Meow!~
Cheap talk?
Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC
> >Last thing in my mailbox is dated not long after
midnight Tuesday night.
Sent a test message to the group an hour and some ago,
Yahoo bounced it:
>
> All my stuff bounced as well. The groups no longer
appears on the web
site or
> on my subscription list.
I just heard from Tom Knapp. Apparent
> Period. End of story.
No it's not. Your premise is based on the verfiably
false notion that
America was sitting around innocent and pure until Bad
Guys decided to
attack for no good reason.
That is a lie. Any chain of thought that descends
from it is false.
9/11 is just one more idjit, moron
> I will predict right here and right now, that if we
don't strike Iran,
Israel will.
That's going to suck if it happens.
> The nuke, certainly has defensive posture uses, but
that's not the reason
> they want it. They want it to do serious mischeif.
Realize that the
Iranian
> leadership believ
> Then we'll take 1900 as the end of that era. I will
use that date moving
forward.
I was reading on another site - History of Northern
California Tribes
Some of the survivors banded together and actually
began to work their way
off the reservations.
They tried to buy back the ancestral lands
> I know I touched a chord but goto sleep people.
Geezus, I'm up because
I'm working -- what's your excuse!
I work graveyard, I am keeping my regular schedule.
About to switch off for
the night.
> Y'all might as well stand down.
In your dreams. Kicking your "Ideas" around is fun.
Jay ~Meow
> North Korea is much more of a problem to China, than
it is to us. Not only
that, but
> given the differences in economy and technology,
South Korea hasn't that
much
> to fear from the north either. North Korea will
eventually destroy
itself, just as the
> old USSR did.
This has South Korea sle
> By confusing the who, the what and the how, and
talking
> of "the Empire", which we don't have incidentally,
We don't???
Recommend "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man"
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/103-0747034-0170209?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=economic+hitman&Go.x=8&Go.y=10
> Throw me a better date then, Dude!
Monday, 11, Dec 2006 - at a social function, a Native
American woman of my
acquaintence complained bitterly about her tribe
paying to support a
Catholic mission on her reservation.
I do not know for sure if she is Colville, Spokane or
Couer D'Alene tribe -
by
> with that the wave of asymmetric attacks that will
follow in 2009 and
>onwards. And then we will lose even more people in
the fight to
> follow and most likely the US to full fascism.
You make me wish I had generators, ammunition, dried
beans, water
purification tablets and sand bags to sell.
> Dammit EJT, I've already been violated - I'm one of
those
> who suffered directly as a result of 9-11. And take
a good
> hard look in the mirror before you make any
assertions about
> how "we" deserved it. Neither you nor I and most
certainly
> my brother, have anything to do with any action at
> And of course each nonsense mystical religion
(Judaism,
> Christianity, Islam et al) is prone to extremism.
> It's mystical nonsense used to justify
extraordinary
> behavior and since it isn't grounded in reality any
absurdity
> from Holy Trinity to 72 Virgins asReward goes.
And yet you seem t
> They don't. It doesn't scale.
Prove it.
> The War of Civilizations is already on, and we have
been drafted
> against our will. If we don't engage, we will
perish -- either now or
later.
Wait - we must engage in a war of civilizations
Because we're in a war of civilizations?
Circular L
> If we pull out of the region entirely, the only
thing that will happen is
multiple smuggled nukes onto our shores.
Wow. Explain to me, please - in simple words and
sentences - how "our"
forces there now prevent a smuggled nuke?
Jay ~Meow!~
> Oh and by the way, it's not "their" oil. They
nationalized the very
industries we built at cents on the dollar.
And who did we buy the property to build the
refineries on?
Racist garbage. Rationalizing why it's okay to play
"Manifest Destiny" with
someone else dirt and resources.
I reject t
> It is this narrow-view, highly typical of
libertarians, (so your view is
not unique,) that loses
> libertarians people quickly and effectively. We
have to grow and look
further.
That is the appeal to popularity falsehood.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
I don't care
> You can't have it both ways. Left to their own
devices those areas
> would have been theocratic dictatorships much worse
than the Taliban.
SO? At least they wouldn't have BLAMED US FOR THEM.
You speak of logic, but your assertion is
"If we hadn't supported one dictator - there would
have bee
> And take a good hard look in the mirror before you
make any
> assertions about how "we" deserved it. Neither you
nor I and
> most certainly my brother, have anything to do with
any action
> at any time, except by accident of birth with this
Nation, what
> may or may not have been done to Muslims
> When an Iran
> wants a nuke, the question that has to be asked is
"Why?".
Let's do the math on this -
Iraq, Iran and N Korea on "Axis of Evil" List.
Iraq has no WMDs, but has oil, gets attacked.
N. Korea has no oil but possibly nukes - Not attacked.
H. Doesn't look too much like rocke
> It is no longer possible to live and let live.
Sure it is - the flaw in that argument is that our
government was not living
and letting live. The British Empire Inherited the
Area from the Ottoman
Empire at the end of WWI, and the U.S. Empire
inherited the area from the
British Empire at the e
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