Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

On 05.04.2016 12:42, Simon Albrecht wrote: On 05.04.2016 11:55, David Kastrup wrote: That is because many people who get a go at LilyPond (such as me) are not programmers, but musicians with little background knowledge about or experience with programming. Well, you seem to be faring pretty

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

On 05.04.2016 11:55, David Kastrup wrote: That is because many people who get a go at LilyPond (such as me) are not programmers, but musicians with little background knowledge about or experience with programming. Well, you seem to be faring pretty well. Oh, thank you. All I learnt was

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

On 04-04-16 23:58, David Sumbler wrote: I have been using Lilypond for a few years now (but admittedly there are always periods of weeks or months at a time when I haven't touched it, which of course makes things much more difficult to retain). I still find the whole thing rather cryptic, and

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

Simon Albrecht writes: > On 04.04.2016 22:19, Johannes Waldmann wrote: >> The docs do make considerable effort to explain, e.g., >> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/learning/contexts-and-engravers >> . >> If at all, I might criticize this for being in the

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

David Sumbler writes: > I have been using Lilypond for a few years now (but admittedly there > are always periods of weeks or months at a time when I haven't touched > it, which of course makes things much more difficult to retain). > > I still find the whole thing rather

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

David Wright writes: > It's interesting to compare this structure with NM5.1.1 where \score > is the topmost context and StaffGroups are "top-level" contexts. > > And why book, score and not Book, Score? You mean \book and \score. Because those are elements of

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

On Tue 05 Apr 2016 at 01:04:40 (+0200), Thomas Morley wrote: > 2016-04-04 23:58 GMT+02:00 David Sumbler : > > > > Just a thought - perhaps one day somebody who understands Lilypond well > > might write a section for the docs, starting with the basic > > Well, the full quote: >

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

2016-04-04 23:58 GMT+02:00 David Sumbler : > > Just a thought - perhaps one day somebody who understands Lilypond well > might write a section for the docs, starting with the basic Well, the full quote: LilyPond treats input like this: \relative { c''4 a d c } as

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

On Mon 04 Apr 2016 at 12:46:37 (+0200), Bernard wrote: > On 03-04-16 22:56, David Kastrup wrote: > >Bernard writes: > >>That does help. I found out \with is a very special statement. > >Not really. \with can be part of other constructs, just like "else" can > >be part

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

On 04.04.2016 22:19, Johannes Waldmann wrote: The docs do make considerable effort to explain, e.g., http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/learning/contexts-and-engravers . If at all, I might criticize this for being in the wrong order: 2. Common Notation, 3. Fundamental Concepts - but

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

On Mon, 2016-04-04 at 16:12 -0400, lilypond-user-requ...@gnu.org wrote: > > From: Noeck <noeck.marb...@gmx.de> > > To: lilypond-user@gnu.org > > Subject: Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with > > statement > > Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 22:

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

Colin Campbell writes: > On 16-04-04 02:57 PM, David Kastrup wrote: >> Noeck writes: >> >>> … and enjoy your climbing! I hope I don't produce much more >>> misinformation until you are safely back ;) >> Uh, I'm already back. I'm only enjoying the open spots

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

On 16-04-04 02:57 PM, David Kastrup wrote: Noeck writes: … and enjoy your climbing! I hope I don't produce much more misinformation until you are safely back ;) Uh, I'm already back. I'm only enjoying the open spots on my fingertips now. They'll close up in the next

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

Noeck writes: > … and enjoy your climbing! I hope I don't produce much more > misinformation until you are safely back ;) Uh, I'm already back. I'm only enjoying the open spots on my fingertips now. They'll close up in the next few days, and in 10 days or so the fingers

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

… and enjoy your climbing! I hope I don't produce much more misinformation until you are safely back ;) Cheers, Joram ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

Hi David, On 04.04.2016 22:22, David Kastrup wrote: > Noeck writes: > >> Alternatively, you can put this into a layout block: >> >> \layout { >> \context { >> \Staff >> clefPosition = 2 >> } >> } >> %or >> \layout { >> \set Staff.clefPosition = 2 >> } > >

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

Noeck writes: > Alternatively, you can put this into a layout block: > > \layout { > \context { > \Staff > clefPosition = 2 > } > } > %or > \layout { > \set Staff.clefPosition = 2 > } This is not the same. The first affects only the "Staff" context

Re: Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

interesting discussion! > My ultimate question boils down to how to assign > a value to a property. That should not even be a question. That ("should not be a question") depends on the mental model. Why do you assume that a property is assignable, or in fact that a (sub)program should consist of

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

Would the table in the previous mail be helpful for the docs here? http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/overview-of-modifying-properties I could write it and some text around it if there is a general feeling that it would help. Cheers, Joram

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

Hi Bernard, I would like to try and explain it in other words as the manual: music with implicit voice and staff: { c' } music with explicit staff and implicit voice: \new Staff { c' } adding a with statement: \new Staff \with { clefPosition = 2 } { c' } Please note here: There must be no {

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

On 04.04.2016 21:54, David Kastrup wrote: The only "inconsistency" I am able to see is that context modifications (like context definitions) omit a context name for their sets/overrides, and that they use assignment syntax without \set unlike to how context properties are set inside of actual

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

Bernard writes: > On 04-04-16 18:35, David Kastrup wrote: >> Bernard writes: >> >>> >>> I think I am getting quite close now. Thanks, >> I have no idea what you think you are doing but I have severe doubts >> that you are getting close to

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

Hi Bernard, I’m sorry you’ve had such difficulty learning Lilypond. On Apr 4, 2016, at 3:20 PM, Bernard wrote: > My ultimate question boils down to how to assign a value to a property. That > should not even be a question. The main problem you’re having, I think,

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

On 04-04-16 18:35, David Kastrup wrote: Bernard writes: I think I am getting quite close now. Thanks, I have no idea what you think you are doing but I have severe doubts that you are getting close to anything useful. It looks to me like you are just randomly

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

> On Apr 4, 2016, at 6:46 AM, Bernard wrote: > > I have attached some more real live code using /with and and example I tried > to skip the /with section and assign properties directly, which fails. Here’s how to fix your example (without \with) that was not

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

Bernard writes: > On 04-04-16 16:51, Simon Albrecht wrote: >> On 04.04.2016 12:46, Bernard wrote: >>> I have attached some more real live code using /with and and >>> example I tried to skip the /with section and assign properties >>> directly, which fails. >> >>

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

Hi Bernard, > \score { > \new DrumStaff { > \override DrumStaff.StaffSymbol.line-count = #3 > \set DrumStaff.instrumentName = "Djembe 2" > \set DrumStaff.drumStyleTable = #(alist->hash-table djembe) > } > \djEen > } If, like me, you prefer separating musical content from presentation as much as

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

On 04.04.2016 17:36, Bernard wrote: On 04-04-16 16:51, Simon Albrecht wrote: On 04.04.2016 12:46, Bernard wrote: I have attached some more real live code using /with and and example I tried to skip the /with section and assign properties directly, which fails. instrumentName, drumStyleTable

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

On 04-04-16 16:51, Simon Albrecht wrote: On 04.04.2016 12:46, Bernard wrote: I have attached some more real live code using /with and and example I tried to skip the /with section and assign properties directly, which fails. instrumentName, drumStyleTable are context properties. Inside

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

On 04.04.2016 12:46, Bernard wrote: I have attached some more real live code using /with and and example I tried to skip the /with section and assign properties directly, which fails. instrumentName, drumStyleTable are context properties. Inside music, these are set with the \set command,

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

On 03-04-16 22:56, David Kastrup wrote: Bernard writes: Hi Paul, That does help. I found out \with is a very special statement. Not really. \with can be part of other constructs, just like "else" can be part of other constructs in many programming languages

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

2016-04-03 21:02 GMT+02:00 Bernard : > On 03-04-16 18:33, Thomas Morley wrote: >> >> 2016-04-03 16:59 GMT+02:00 Bernard : >> >>> All boils down to what is the \with statement. >> >> Well, >> >>

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

Bernard writes: > On 03-04-16 17:57, Paul Morris wrote: >>> On Apr 3, 2016, at 11:53 AM, Paul Morris wrote: >>> >>> This should help: >>> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/changing-context-default-settings#index-_005cwith-3 >>

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

2016-04-03 20:55 GMT+02:00 Bernard : > On 03-04-16 17:57, Paul Morris wrote: >>> >>> On Apr 3, 2016, at 11:53 AM, Paul Morris wrote: >>> >>> This should help: >>> >>>

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

On 03-04-16 18:33, Thomas Morley wrote: 2016-04-03 16:59 GMT+02:00 Bernard : All boils down to what is the \with statement. Well, http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/learning-big-page#modifying-context-properties seems pretty clear to me. There you can

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

On 03-04-16 17:57, Paul Morris wrote: On Apr 3, 2016, at 11:53 AM, Paul Morris wrote: This should help: http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/changing-context-default-settings#index-_005cwith-3 See also:

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

2016-04-03 16:59 GMT+02:00 Bernard : > All boils down to what is the \with statement. Well, http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/learning-big-page#modifying-context-properties seems pretty clear to me. There you can read: " When a context is created with a

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

> On Apr 3, 2016, at 11:53 AM, Paul Morris wrote: > > This should help: > http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/changing-context-default-settings#index-_005cwith-3 See also:

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

Hi Bernard, > On Apr 3, 2016, at 10:59 AM, Bernard wrote: > > All boils down to what is the \with statement. This should help: http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/changing-context-default-settings#index-_005cwith-3 I found that section by looking

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

On 03-04-16 13:30, Simon Albrecht wrote: On 03.04.2016 08:15, Bernard wrote: I would like to comprehend Lilyponds structure. I read http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/learning/contexts-explained and

Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

On 03.04.2016 08:15, Bernard wrote: I would like to comprehend Lilyponds structure. I read http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/learning/contexts-explained and