Jens M Andreasen wrote:
There is a switch on the backside of the Hammond to spin it down in
remembrance of those unforgettable brown-out moments.
I can't translate 'brown-out' into German. Is this regarding to James
Brown? Not my kind of music, but Bernie Worrell still is alive and he
On Sun, 2010-05-30 at 13:05 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
There is a switch on the backside of the Hammond to spin it down in
remembrance of those unforgettable brown-out moments.
I can't translate 'brown-out' into German. Is this regarding to James
Brown? ...
Nope, and I think it
Jens M Andreasen wrote:
On Sun, 2010-05-30 at 13:05 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
There is a switch on the backside of the Hammond to spin it down in
remembrance of those unforgettable brown-out moments.
I can't translate 'brown-out' into German. Is this regarding to James
Brown?
Am Freitag 28 Mai 2010 schrieb f...@kokkinizita.net:
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 08:30:54AM -0700, Niels Mayer wrote:
Audio ADCs and DACs have three important inputs;
the signal input, the voltage reference, and the clock.
Noise and interference on the voltage reference causes
amplitude
Am Sonntag 30 Mai 2010 schrieb Karsten Wiese:
Am Freitag 28 Mai 2010 schrieb f...@kokkinizita.net:
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 08:30:54AM -0700, Niels Mayer wrote:
Audio ADCs and DACs have three important inputs;
the signal input, the voltage reference, and the clock.
Noise and
Gene Heskett wrote:
On Friday 28 May 2010, f...@kokkinizita.net wrote:
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 11:24:29PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Oberhausen, Rheinland, Germany; power line frequency right now is at
49 Hz, measured with a low cost energy consumption costs meter.
Those low cost
Regarding to station clocks I guess they are synced by radio and not by the
power line. In Parma there the clocks might be heritage-protected ;) and
stills synced by the power line frequency.
The ones I have visited have two clocks, one on the power line and one
atomical. The control
Veronica Merryfield wrote:
Regarding to station clocks I guess they are synced by radio and not by the
power line. In Parma there the clocks might be heritage-protected ;) and stills
synced by the power line frequency.
The ones I have visited have two clocks, one on the power line and one
On Saturday 29 May 2010, Veronica Merryfield wrote:
Regarding to station clocks I guess they are synced by radio and not by
the power line. In Parma there the clocks might be heritage-protected ;)
and stills synced by the power line frequency.
The ones I have visited have two clocks, one on
On Saturday 29 May 2010, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
[...]
I found no Wiki for Überferquenz, increased frequency. At what value
was the voltage, when there were 100 Hz?
The 100 HZ component is what you get by rectifying both halves of the sine
wave, effectively inverting the lower half to become
On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 12:18 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
On Saturday 29 May 2010, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
...
So if anybody wants to program a virtual Hammond B3, should he take care
about tuning effects caused by the power line?
Btw. is the motors speed for a B3 depending to the voltage or is it
On 05/28/10 14:31, f...@kokkinizita.net wro
http://www.kokkinizita.net/linuxaudio/quiz.html
Jitter or power supply. Is it on all ports?
Flo
--
Machines can do the work, so people have time to think.
public key DA43FEF4 x-hkp://wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 04:09:42PM +0200, Olivier Guilyardi wrote:
http://www.kokkinizita.net/linuxaudio/quiz.html
Well, it looks to me like this is caused by the fact that the audio cards
clocks
are not in sync. When you loopback card A with itself, both input and output
are
sampled
On Friday 28 May 2010, f...@kokkinizita.net wrote:
Hello all,
This week I had to perform measurements on a audio
interface, and this resulted in some quite interesting
results. Before revealing what happened, I'll let you
have a look at some of the data and come up with your
own conclusions, see
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 1:31 PM, f...@kokkinizita.net wrote:
This week I had to perform measurements on a audio
interface, and this resulted in some quite interesting
results. Before revealing what happened, I'll let you
have a look at some of the data and come up with your
own conclusions,
On 05/28/2010 02:31 PM, f...@kokkinizita.net wrote:
Hello all,
This week I had to perform measurements on a audio
interface, and this resulted in some quite interesting
results. Before revealing what happened, I'll let you
have a look at some of the data and come up with your
own
Chris Cannam wrote:
Why 1015 Hz?
Slew rate of card x's input op-amps?
___
Linux-audio-dev mailing list
Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
f...@kokkinizita.net wrote:
Hello all,
This week I had to perform measurements on a audio
interface, and this resulted in some quite interesting
results. Before revealing what happened, I'll let you
have a look at some of the data and come up with your
own conclusions, see
On 05/28/2010 05:05 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Chris Cannam wrote:
Why 1015 Hz?
Slew rate of card x's input op-amps?
Slew-rates of op-amps are higher by at least an order of magnitude:
off-the shelf cheap op-amps have ~ 10V/us. Fons' test signal may be
~50mV peak-to peak.
In reply to Olivier
This experiment was done in Europe with 50Hz AC line current.
When rectified by a non-switching power supply, that ends up being 100hz hum.
Alternately, it's 50 hz ground loop noise that is being rectified or
has cross-over distortion resulting in 100Hz noise.
This rectification could take place
On 05/28/2010 05:05 PM, Robin Gareus wrote:
On 05/28/2010 02:31 PM, f...@kokkinizita.net wrote:
Hello all,
This week I had to perform measurements on a audio
interface, and this resulted in some quite interesting
results. Before revealing what happened, I'll let you
have a look at some of
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 05:24:25PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Coupling by drop ground leakage? (Kopplung durch Spannungsabfall an
Masseleitungen?)
Does not explain that what is seen is a modulation effect.
Ciao,
--
FA
O tu, che porte, correndo si ?
E guerra e morte !
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 05:37:47PM +0200, f...@kokkinizita.net wrote:
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 08:30:54AM -0700, Niels Mayer wrote:
Audio ADCs and DACs have three important inputs;
the signal input, the voltage reference, and the clock.
Noise and interference on the voltage reference
f...@kokkinizita.net wrote:
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 08:30:54AM -0700, Niels Mayer wrote:
Audio ADCs and DACs have three important inputs;
the signal input, the voltage reference, and the clock.
Noise and interference on the voltage reference causes
amplitude modulation, and jitter on the
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 06:24:05PM +0200, torbenh wrote:
is that an USB card ?
Card A is USB, card X isn't.
Ciao,
--
FA
O tu, che porte, correndo si ?
E guerra e morte !
___
Linux-audio-dev mailing list
Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
Fons,
One more hint: card X is a very high end one. It should
be 'perfect', or at least much better than card A.
So card A produced the effect and cancelled it out when measuring itself.
Flo
--
Machines can do the work, so people have time to think.
public key DA43FEF4
Florian Faber wrote:
Fons,
One more hint: card X is a very high end one. It should
be 'perfect', or at least much better than card A.
So card A produced the effect and cancelled it out when measuring itself.
Flo
:)
But what is bad with card A ;).
Veronica Merryfield wrote:
On 05/28/2010 02:31 PM, f...@kokkinizita.net wrote:
Hello all,
This week I had to perform measurements on a audio
interface, and this resulted in some quite interesting
results. Before revealing what happened, I'll let you
have a look at some of the data and come
On Fri, 28 May 2010 19:20:54 +0200
Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:
Veronica Merryfield wrote:
On 05/28/2010 02:31 PM, f...@kokkinizita.net wrote:
Hello all,
This week I had to perform measurements on a audio
interface, and this resulted in some quite interesting
Folderol wrote:
On Fri, 28 May 2010 19:20:54 +0200
Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:
Veronica Merryfield wrote:
On 05/28/2010 02:31 PM, f...@kokkinizita.net wrote:
Hello all,
This week I had to perform measurements on a audio
interface, and this resulted in
Dammit, Fons! I'm trying to get some work done today and go
off and nerd snipe me.
On Fri, 28 May 2010, f...@kokkinizita.net wrote:
Noise and interference on the voltage reference causes
amplitude modulation, and jitter on the clock causes
You're close. See the extra hint in a
Gabriel Beddingfield wrote:
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 12:39 PM, Gabriel M. Beddingfield
gabrb...@gmail.com wrote:
The 100 Hz (being 2x 50Hz, the power freq. in Italy)
suggests that it is probably related to some manner of
power supply. However, I have no theory why we're
getting 2x 50Hz (and
Olivier Guilyardi wrote:
On 05/28/2010 07:36 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Folderol wrote:
On Fri, 28 May 2010 19:20:54 +0200
Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:
Veronica Merryfield wrote:
You can't trust a loop back test.
Any instability or dither on the
Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Olivier Guilyardi wrote:
On 05/28/2010 07:36 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Folderol wrote:
On Fri, 28 May 2010 19:20:54 +0200
Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:
Veronica Merryfield wrote:
You can't trust a loop back test.
Any instability
On Fri, 28 May 2010, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
The 100 Hz (being 2x 50Hz, the power freq. in Italy)
suggests that it is probably related to some manner of
power supply. However, I have no theory why we're
getting 2x 50Hz (and I think I need one :-)).
Doh! When the AC wave is rectified, it
Gabriel M. Beddingfield wrote:
Try modelling it up with AMS (that's what I did).
-gabriel
:D
Not now, because ...
Gabriel M. Beddingfield wrote:
Dammit, Fons! I'm trying to get some work done today and go off and
nerd snipe me.
[snip]
p.s. Nerd Sniping... http://xkcd.com/356/
The 100 Hz (being 2x 50Hz, the power freq. in Italy)
suggests that it is probably related to some manner of
power supply. However, I have no theory why we're
getting 2x 50Hz (and I think I need one :-)).
The implication has been that the USB audio device is a cheaper device. It is
Veronica Merryfield wrote:
The 100 Hz (being 2x 50Hz, the power freq. in Italy)
suggests that it is probably related to some manner of
power supply. However, I have no theory why we're
getting 2x 50Hz (and I think I need one :-)).
The implication has been that the USB audio device is a
On Fri, 28 May 2010, Veronica Merryfield wrote:
The 100 Hz (being 2x 50Hz, the power freq. in Italy)
suggests that it is probably related to some manner of
power supply. However, I have no theory why we're
getting 2x 50Hz (and I think I need one :-)).
The implication has been that the
Gabriel M. Beddingfield wrote:
On Fri, 28 May 2010, Veronica Merryfield wrote:
and therefore less likely to have a power line ripple on it.
Yes, as I go back and read that A was proven by A... it could be the
power source for either device -- and most likely the cheaper card A.
But
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 8:37 AM, f...@kokkinizita.net wrote:
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 08:30:54AM -0700, Niels Mayer wrote:
[...]
You're close. See the extra hint in a previous post.
It the close has to do with jitter:
* Something on the USB bus is causing a periodic jitter with a cycle of
On Fri, May 28, 2010 18:39, Gabriel M. Beddingfield wrote:
Dammit, Fons! I'm trying to get some work done today and go
off and nerd snipe me.
[...]
-gabriel
p.s. Nerd Sniping... http://xkcd.com/356/
Well nerd sniped... I went to the xkcd blag, and what did I find there?
On Fri, 28 May 2010 13:23:21 -0500 (CDT)
Gabriel M. Beddingfield gabrb...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, 28 May 2010, Veronica Merryfield wrote:
The 100 Hz (being 2x 50Hz, the power freq. in Italy)
suggests that it is probably related to some manner of
power supply. However, I have no
Niels Mayer wrote:
If the close has to do with induced or actual 50hz hum, perhaps
frequency-doubled via rectification:
It's the residual ripple for the DC that comes with 100 Hz. 50 Hz hum is
'send' by the transformer and could be heard as additive analog audio
signal, because of the
On Fri, 28 May 2010, Folderol wrote:
Once you connect the analogue side of the the USB device to the
installed (high quality card) you have an earth loop that traverses
both the analogue and digital domains. You also have an +5V loop (unless
the USB device is externally powered) This loop
Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Gabriel M. Beddingfield wrote:
On Fri, 28 May 2010, Folderol wrote:
Once you connect the analogue side of the the USB device to the
installed (high quality card) you have an earth loop that traverses
both the analogue and digital domains. You also have an +5V loop
Just thinking about what I had wrote and remembered the semantics used here...
One more hint: card X is a very high end one. It should
be 'perfect', or at least much better than card A.
... which might suggest that Card X is not performing well. Since it has been
stated the card x is not USB,
Veronica Merryfield wrote:
Just thinking about what I had wrote and remembered the semantics used here...
One more hint: card X is a very high end one. It should
be 'perfect', or at least much better than card A.
... which might suggest that Card X is not performing well. Since it
On Fri, 2010-05-28 at 13:40 -0500, Gabriel M. Beddingfield wrote:
What could be causing the ground loop to oscillate?
It works like an antenna picking up the electromagnetic 50 Hz
fundamental. I don't think this is the right answer given the 100 Hz
harmonic series.
Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Veronica Merryfield wrote:
Just thinking about what I had wrote and remembered the semantics
used here...
One more hint: card X is a very high end one. It should
be 'perfect', or at least much better than card A.
... which might suggest that Card X is not
On 2010-05-28, at 11:39 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Niels Mayer wrote:
If the close has to do with induced or actual 50hz hum, perhaps
frequency-doubled via rectification:
It's the residual ripple for the DC that comes with 100 Hz. 50 Hz hum is
'send' by the transformer and could be heard as
On Fri, 2010-05-28 at 11:54 -0700, Veronica Merryfield wrote:
Just thinking about what I had wrote and remembered the semantics used here...
One more hint: card X is a very high end one. It should
be 'perfect', or at least much better than card A.
... which might suggest that Card X is
Veronica Merryfield wrote:
On 2010-05-28, at 11:39 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Niels Mayer wrote:
If the close has to do with induced or actual 50hz hum, perhaps
frequency-doubled via rectification:
It's the residual ripple for the DC that comes with 100 Hz. 50 Hz hum is 'send'
Ricardus Vincente wrote:
On Fri, 2010-05-28 at 11:54 -0700, Veronica Merryfield wrote:
Just thinking about what I had wrote and remembered the semantics used here...
One more hint: card X is a very high end one. It should
be 'perfect', or at least much better than card A.
...
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 07:22:24PM +0200, Robin Gareus wrote:
OT: I would not trust any consumer-grade audio-interface for signal
differences larger than 80dB anyway. I'm amazed that card A shows such a
low noise-floor in the loop-back test.
Not OT at all. Don't mistake the -140 dB noise line
On Fri, 2010-05-28 at 22:02 +0200, f...@kokkinizita.net wrote:
The really interesting value is the noise density shown in the upper
left corner (for the marker at 1100 Hz): noise density is -137.9 dB/Hz
Add 43 dBHz (for 20 kHz), and the resulting S/N ratio is -94.9 dB.
Which is 16-bit
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 10:51:03PM +0200, Jens M Andreasen wrote:
So 20 useful bits - approx.
Where do you get this ? What the plot shows is that the
S/N ratio is around 95 dB, that's all. Even if the ADC
has 20 effective bits, they are useless as the analog
noise dominates. OTOH, that doesn't
Original Message
Subject:Re: [LAD] A little quiz about audio measurements...
Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 21:17:38 +0200
From: Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net
To: Veronica Merryfield veronica.merryfi...@tesco.net
CC: Linux Audio Developers linux-audio-dev
On Fri, 2010-05-28 at 23:07 +0200, f...@kokkinizita.net wrote:
So 20 useful bits - approx.
Where do you get this ? What the plot shows is that the
S/N ratio is around 95 dB, that's all. Even if the ADC
has 20 effective bits, they are useless as the analog
noise dominates.
I get this
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 11:33:35PM +0200, Jens M Andreasen wrote:
I get this from the difference between a piano-like signal fading out
into a squarewave vs fading out way below the noisefloor. The former is
unbearable.
Absolutely, and that why there's dithering, which in its
simplest form is
On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 00:00 +0200, f...@kokkinizita.net wrote:
Absolutely, and that why there's dithering, which in its
simplest form is just adding noise.
Great ;)
Now you please go add some noise to a 16 bit signal and keep that
theoretical -90 dB noisefloor also, will you ...
In any
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 11:24:29PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Oberhausen, Rheinland, Germany; power line frequency right now is at
49 Hz, measured with a low cost energy consumption costs meter.
Those low cost meters shouldn't be able to do correct measurements
;). The best test at home might
f...@kokkinizita.net wrote:
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 11:24:29PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Oberhausen, Rheinland, Germany; power line frequency right now is at
49 Hz, measured with a low cost energy consumption costs meter.
Those low cost meters shouldn't be able to do correct measurements
On Friday 28 May 2010, f...@kokkinizita.net wrote:
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 11:24:29PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Oberhausen, Rheinland, Germany; power line frequency right now is at
49 Hz, measured with a low cost energy consumption costs meter.
Those low cost meters shouldn't be able to do
On 2010-05-28, at 3:26 PM, f...@kokkinizita.net wrote:
49 Hz is impossible. It would mean that a clock using this
frequency would be slow by more than a minute per hour.
Long-term accuracy is extremely high, precisely because clocks
depend on it. And since almost all of Europe is
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