Re: [Ksummit-discuss] Call to Action Re: [PATCH 0/7] Code of Conduct: Fix some wording, and add an interpretation document

2018-11-03 Thread Eric S. Raymond
t;people > code" in that? -- http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond My work is funded by the Internet Civil Engineering Institute: https://icei.org Please visit their site and donate: the civilization you save might be your own. signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Re: [Ksummit-discuss] The linux devs can rescind their license grant.

2018-10-27 Thread Eric S. Raymond
unpleasantly. The prose style doesn't match. MikeeUSA could barely maintain coherent communication; this guy is using language that indicates he's at least several degrees brighter. -- http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond My work is funded by the Internet Ci

Re: The linux devs can rescind their license grant.

2018-10-26 Thread Eric S. Raymond
des to lkml so indicates. Which is why I'm trying to get the kernel leadership to repair its unnecessarily high-handed behavior before somebody gets pissed off enough to actually drop a bomb. -- http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond My work is funded by the Inter

Re: The linux devs can rescind their license grant.

2018-10-25 Thread Eric S. Raymond
that it is *my* job to fix this mess, or at least to give it a good hard try. I doubt they're trolling; what would be the point? -- http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond My work is funded by the Internet Civil Engineering Institute: https://icei.org Please visi

Re: The linux devs can rescind their license grant.

2018-10-25 Thread Eric S. Raymond
immediate imposition of one, but by a public RFC process and consensus-building - a process in which even those who lost arguments about the construction of the code could know they had been heard. -- http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond My work is funded by the Int

Re: The linux devs can rescind their license grant.

2018-10-25 Thread Eric S. Raymond
Theodore Y. Ts'o : > On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 03:39:01PM -0400, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > > Under Jacobsen vs. Katzer (535 f 3d 1373 fed cir 2008) authors of > > GPLed software have a specific right to relief (including injunctive > > relief) against misappropriation of t

Re: The linux devs can rescind their license grant.

2018-10-25 Thread Eric S. Raymond
er and the prohibition against perpetual grants I think you are incurring a grave risk by assuming the dissidents have no ammunition. Better for both sides to climb down from a confrontational position before real damage gets done. -- http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S.

Re: [PATCH 0/7] Code of Conduct: Fix some wording, and add an interpretation document

2018-10-21 Thread Eric S. Raymond
ppropriate for an international project. Best to leave the whole mess out and just pledge to treat individuals well. -- http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond My work is funded by the Internet Civil Engineering Institute: https://icei.org Please visit their site and donate: the civilization you save might be your own.

Re: [Ksummit-discuss] [PATCH] code-of-conduct: Remove explicit list of discrimination factors

2018-10-10 Thread Eric S. Raymond
7;s called RFCs. If we want to designate protected classes to be called out in conductt guidelines, an RFC should be floated first and the change should be made only if rough consensus has been achieved. -- http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond My work is funde

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-29 Thread Eric S. Raymond
ngs*; that is *our* culture's mechanism for achieving and maintaining consensus on difficult issues. -- http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond My work is funded by the Internet Civil Engineering Institute: https://icei.org Please visit their site and donate: the civilization you save might be your own.

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-29 Thread Eric S. Raymond
s is a telos issue, not just an ethos issue, and much more fundamental. I endorse a suggestion made elsewhere that a revised CoC would best be developed by an RFC-like process. Because *that is how we do such things*; that is *our* culture's mechanism for achieving and maintaining consensus o

Re: Licenses and revocability, in a paragraph or less.

2018-09-27 Thread Eric S. Raymond
paralegal could write the brief in an evening. Hell, I could almost do it myself. I do not personally want to see this happen. But that it is possible is a fact all parties must deal with. -- http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond My work is funded by the Internet C

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-25 Thread Eric S. Raymond
r the CoC. That should be a clue that imposing the CoC without a lot of public discussion and preparation was a mistake, and it should be revereted until at least rough consensus in fovor of some improvement on the old Code is achieved. -- http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>E

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-25 Thread Eric S. Raymond
ltural group. We have nothing to gain by getting entangled with political culture wars, and everything to lose. -- http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond My work is funded by the Internet Civil Engineering Institute: https://icei.org Please visit their site a

On holy wars, and a plea for peace

2018-09-23 Thread Eric S. Raymond
, do we have the most inclusive (least normative) ethos possible to achieve it? When you have an answer to that question, you will know what we need to do about the CoC and the "killswitch" revolt. -- http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond The spirit of re

Re: Cross-reference analysis reveals problems in 2.4.6pre9

2001-07-03 Thread Eric S. Raymond
eived mail from someone who can fill in the new MIPS entries, so initial results from the posting are quite good. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond The direct use of physical force is so poor a solution to the problem of limited resources that it is commonly em

Re: Cross-reference analysis reveals problems in 2.4.6pre9

2001-07-03 Thread Eric S. Raymond
Steven J. Hill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I can fill in the blanks on all of these for you. I won't clutter > up the mailing list with the complete descriptions. That would be excellent. Please do! -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond Th

Re: Cross-reference analysis reveals problems in 2.4.6pre9

2001-07-03 Thread Eric S. Raymond
ists again. I put the symbols we discussed previously on my ignore list. What's your beef this time? -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond The saddest life is that of a political aspirant under democracy. His failure is ignominious and his success i

Cross-reference analysis reveals problems in 2.4.6pre9

2001-07-03 Thread Eric S. Raymond
responsible maintainers please supply help entries for the above? -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond "Boys who own legal firearms have much lower rates of delinquency and drug use and are even slightly less delinquent than nonowners of guns."

Re: Missing help entries in 2.4.6pre5

2001-06-21 Thread Eric S. Raymond
I don't think it's worth the effort. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the bra

Re: Controversy over dynamic linking -- how to end the panic

2001-06-21 Thread Eric S. Raymond
Andrew Pimlott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 03:17:16PM -0400, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > > IANAL, but I believe that Linus's position as anthology copyright holder > > makes him privileged in this respect. > > Regardless of what you find in

Re: Missing help entries in 2.4.6pre5

2001-06-21 Thread Eric S. Raymond
Russell King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 03:49:34PM -0400, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > > CONFIG_XSCALE_IQ80310 > > I think we've covered this one before. Yes. But if I don't ask, I won't ncessarily know when it changes status. --

Re: Controversy over dynamic linking -- how to end the panic

2001-06-21 Thread Eric S. Raymond
; oddments, as are many people. IANAL, but I believe that Linus's position as anthology copyright holder makes him privileged in this respect. My wife, who *is* an attorney, will be researching this. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond If gun laws in fa

Controversy over dynamic linking -- how to end the panic

2001-06-21 Thread Eric S. Raymond
nge. I believe this would express the present policy clearly enough to soothe jittery nerves at a lot of companies that are worried about this issue. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond Govern

Kernel configuration. It's not just a job, it's an adventure!

2001-06-16 Thread Eric S. Raymond
ollow with the filename). save -- save the configuration (follow with a filename). xyzzy -- toggle suppression flag. quit -- quit, discarding changes. exit -- exit, saving the configuration. You can move in compass directions n,e,w,s,ne,nw,se,sw or dn for

Re: Configure.help is complete

2001-05-31 Thread Eric S. Raymond
a Promise Fasttrak(tm) card but do not use the BIOS provided > raid feature, say "N". Um, tell me what the symbol name and prompt for this is, please? -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond [President Clinton] boasts about 186,000 people denied fir

Re: Configure.help is complete

2001-05-31 Thread Eric S. Raymond
José Luis Domingo López <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Would it be great to have a similar documentation for those hundreds of > "files" under /proc ?. Yes, this would be wonderful. Are you volunteering to write it? -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric

Configure.help is complete

2001-05-31 Thread Eric S. Raymond
do so. We can raise our standards now, and for the sake of having a well-documentated kernel and configuration system I submit that we ought to. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond Never could an increase of comfort or security be a sufficient good

Only 5 undocumented configuration symbols left

2001-05-30 Thread Eric S. Raymond
o.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond The people cannot delegate to government the power to do anything which would be unlawful for them to do themselves. -- John Locke, "A Treatise Concerning Civil Government" - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe li

Re: Remaining undocumented Configure.help symbols

2001-05-30 Thread Eric S. Raymond
Harald Welte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Tue, May 29, 2001 at 02:59:40PM -0400, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > > > CONFIG_NET_CLS_TCINDEX > > If you say Y here, you will be able to classify outgoing packets > according to the tc_index field of the skb. You will want th

Remaining undocumented Configure.help symbols

2001-05-29 Thread Eric S. Raymond
WIDTH CONFIG_ETRAX_I2C_USES_PB_NOT_PB_I2C As before, if you know enough about any of these configuration options to write a help entry, please send it to me. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous

Re: [kbuild-devel] Re: Configure.help entries wanted

2001-05-25 Thread Eric S. Raymond
sociated questions either.) -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond Courage is resistance of fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mo

Re: Configure.help entries wanted

2001-05-24 Thread Eric S. Raymond
is option prints more information for Illegal Dependency > + Faults, that is, for Read after Write, Write after Write or Write > + after Read violations. This option is ignored if you are compiling > + for an Itanium A step processor (CONFIG_ITANIUM_ASTEP_SPECIFIC). If > + you'r

What's up with GT96100 in the MIPS config file?

2001-05-23 Thread Eric S. Raymond
t wrong. Can anybody shed any light on this? -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond The saddest life is that of a political aspirant under democracy. His failure is ignominious and his success is disgraceful. -- H.L. Mencken - To unsubscribe from this

Re: Background to the argument about CML2 design philosophy

2001-05-22 Thread Eric S. Raymond
efiles. No, that's not the case. Would it be too much to ask that you learn how the existing language works brfore proposing improvements? -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the

Re: Background to the argument about CML2 design philosophy

2001-05-21 Thread Eric S. Raymond
Nobody could come up with a way to support configurable colors that didn't seem like way more trouble than it was worth. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond "...quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est." [...a sword ne

Dead symbols in CMl1

2001-05-21 Thread Eric S. Raymond
E" = "y" ]; then - bool ' Use /dev/ttyS0 device (OBSOLETE)' CONFIG_SERIAL_21285_OLD - fi bool ' Console on DC21285 serial port' CONFIG_SERIAL_21285_CONSOLE fi fi --- drivers/scsi/Config.in 2001/05/22 00:55:54 1.1 +++ drivers/sc

Re: Background to the argument about CML2 design philosophy

2001-05-21 Thread Eric S. Raymond
ation results in the same place, in the same formats, as CML1. So you should in fact be able to type `make menuconfig' and `make oldconfig' with good results. Have you actually tried this? -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond The right of the ci

Re: [kbuild-devel] Re: CML2 design philosophy heads-up

2001-05-21 Thread Eric S. Raymond
Brent D. Norris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > didn't Eric say that this has stalled though? Is that not the case? Nope. Greg is still working. He got the first version of the theorem prover working recently. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raym

Re: [kbuild-devel] Re: CML2 design philosophy heads-up

2001-05-21 Thread Eric S. Raymond
equiring python 1.5.x for > CML2, since that is what many dists ship with? It wouldn't be too difficult. But it would make the code heavier, and I'm not clear that it would make anybody happy who isn't already willing to deal with the design concept. -- http://ww

Re: Background to the argument about CML2 design philosophy

2001-05-21 Thread Eric S. Raymond
uation, and I follow up with questions when I'm not sure what people are trying to tell me. I'll keep doing that. Eventually the bellyachers may get a message about what kind of behavior gains them influence and what kind loses them influence. That's a social-systems hack of a sort

Re: Background to the argument about CML2 design philosophy

2001-05-20 Thread Eric S. Raymond
is mind and I don't know about it, CML2 is going in between 2.5.1 and 2.5.2. The engine is working. Why is it not yet time to discuss ruleset design and modes? -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond That the said Constitution shall never be construed to a

Re: Background to the argument about CML2 design philosophy

2001-05-20 Thread Eric S. Raymond
to handle the overhead yourselves? Sigh... -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action.&

Re: Background to the argument about CML2 design philosophy

2001-05-20 Thread Eric S. Raymond
you might want to say "Hey, > these guys might want to *explicitly turn off* some of this stuff" - so > provide an option under "Are you insane?" which presents all the "derived" > symbols and allows the hackers to manually turn stuff off. Interesting th

Background to the argument about CML2 design philosophy

2001-05-20 Thread Eric S. Raymond
e to do things a certain way because we've always done them a certain way, and who am I to even dare *think* about raising different possibilities? -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond [The disarming of citizens] has a double effect, it palsies the hand an

Re: CML2 design philosophy heads-up

2001-05-20 Thread Eric S. Raymond
a policy symbol for Aunt Tillie mode and writing constraints like this: require AUNT_TILLIE implies FOO >= BAR This is exactly why the CML2 ruleset has EXPERT, WIZARD, and TUNING policy symbols, as hooks for doing things like this. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>E

Re: CML2 design philosophy heads-up

2001-05-20 Thread Eric S. Raymond
> please do make sure it's possible to disable the latter form. I don't understand this request. I have no concept of `advisory' dependencies. What are you talking about? Is my documentation horribly unclear? -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S.

Brown-paper-bag bug in m68k, sparc, and sparc64 config files

2001-05-19 Thread Eric S. Raymond
pport' CONFIG_CHR_DEV_ST $CONFIG_SCSI - if [ "$CONFIG_BLK_DEV_ST" != "n" ]; then + if [ "$CONFIG_CHR_DEV_ST" != "n" ]; then int 'Maximum number of SCSI tapes that can be loaded as modules' CONFIG_ST_EXTRA_DEVS 2 fi --

Re: [kbuild-devel] Re: CML2 design philosophy heads-up

2001-05-18 Thread Eric S. Raymond
lue to be worth the effort. What problem are you trying to solve here? -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it. -- John Adams, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson. - To unsubscri

Re: CML2 design philosophy heads-up

2001-05-18 Thread Eric S. Raymond
d depending on their visibility predicate But perhaps I can think up a solution to that one over lunch. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond You [should] not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light

Re: [kbuild-devel] Re: CML2 design philosophy heads-up

2001-05-18 Thread Eric S. Raymond
writing the CML2 engine. Going the other direction would be worse. "Like chewing razor blades" is the simile that leaps to mind. (And no, dropping back to CML1 format for the masters wouldn't be an option; it doesn't have the semantic strength to enable CML2's new capa

Re: [kbuild-devel] Re: CML2 design philosophy heads-up

2001-05-18 Thread Eric S. Raymond
serious about empowering people with free software we can't limit ourselves with the attitude that configuring kernels (or anything else) is the sacred preserve of a geek elite. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond The price of liberty is, always has been, and

Re: [kbuild-devel] Re: CML2 design philosophy heads-up

2001-05-18 Thread Eric S. Raymond
him is that CML2 goes in in the 2.5.1-2.5.2 timeframe. That's the assumption I'm operating on. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.

Re: CML2 design philosophy heads-up

2001-05-18 Thread Eric S. Raymond
Arjan van de Ven <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > In my opinion, no configuration that is actually physically possible > is perverse. Noted. And a very pithy statement of the position. Thanks. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond I do not find in ortho

Re: [kbuild-devel] Re: CML2 design philosophy heads-up

2001-05-18 Thread Eric S. Raymond
n supposing somebody were loony enough to do that, how would preserving an old interface in amber do anything to explore new UI possibilities? Perhaps I'm just unusually dense this morning. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond Alcohol still kills mor

Re: CML2 design philosophy heads-up

2001-05-18 Thread Eric S. Raymond
sign a configuration system that makes the task possible for her, then I'll have one that makes it easy for this much larger class of intermediate-level users. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond In the absence of any evidence tending to show that poss

Re: CML2 design philosophy heads-up

2001-05-18 Thread Eric S. Raymond
s view of the world should guide the presentation of options? -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond Are we at last brought to such a humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defence? Where is the difference between havi

Re: [kbuild-devel] Re: CML2 design philosophy heads-up

2001-05-18 Thread Eric S. Raymond
who we optimize ruleset design for) wouldn't go away. I'm raising these questions now because CML2's capabilities invite thinking about them. But they're independent of the underlying language. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond To

Re: CML2 design philosophy heads-up

2001-05-18 Thread Eric S. Raymond
t as a vote for (b), to handle even perverse configurations even if it means adding a lot of complexity to the ruleset. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond ...the Federal Judiciary...an irresponsible body, working like gravity by night and by day, gaining a little

Re: CML2 design philosophy heads-up

2001-05-18 Thread Eric S. Raymond
fact the EXPERT symbol exists in CML2 now. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. We hold this prudent jealousy to be the first duty of citizens and one of the noblest characteristics of the late Revoluti

CML2 1.4.5 is available

2001-05-17 Thread Eric S. Raymond
entries that are missing in the one Linus and Alan are shipping. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." -- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Pape

Re: CML2 design philosophy heads-up

2001-05-15 Thread Eric S. Raymond
d fix them (as I just did at Ray Knight's instruction). 3. I do not have (nor do I seek) the power to "impose" anything on anyone. You really ought to give CML2 a technical evaluation yourself before you flame me again. Much of what you seem to think you know is not true. --

CML2 1.4.3 is available

2001-05-15 Thread Eric S. Raymond
tion is in rulesfile updates and fixes. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear Do not be frightened from thi

Re: CML2 design philosophy heads-up

2001-05-13 Thread Eric S. Raymond
ng is a bad idea and should be dropped, or (2) work with me to correct any errors I have made and improve the system. Growling at me and hoping I go away won't work, not when I've invested a year's effort in this project. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S

Re: CML2 design philosophy heads-up

2001-05-08 Thread Eric S. Raymond
ed for serial, then leave SERIAL off. The point of the derivation is exactly to let you do that. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond Sometimes the law defends plunder and participates in it. Sometimes the law places the whole apparatus of judges, police, pri

Re: CML2 design philosophy heads-up

2001-05-08 Thread Eric S. Raymond
people who just want to build a more or less stock kernel. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond The abortion rights and gun control debates are twin aspects of a deeper question --- does an individual ever have the right to make decisions that are literally life-or-death? And if n

Re: CML2 design philosophy heads-up

2001-05-07 Thread Eric S. Raymond
ok at the conditionals carefully. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond "...The Bill of Rights is a literal and absolute document. The First Amendment doesn't say you have a right to speak out unless the government has a 'compelling interest' in censor

Re: CML2 design philosophy heads-up

2001-05-07 Thread Eric S. Raymond
uire X86 and PARPORT implies PARPORT_PC unless X86==n suppress PARPORT_PC which forces PARPORT_PC==y and makes the question invisible on X86 machines, but leaves the question visible on all others. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond The real point of audit

Re: CML2 design philosophy heads-up

2001-05-07 Thread Eric S. Raymond
different issue here, autoconfiguration rather than static dependencies. Giacomo Catenazzi is working on that. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded t

CML2 design philosophy heads-up

2001-05-05 Thread Eric S. Raymond
onfiguration question and associated help by writing this kind of formula, I'm doing so. This note is a heads-up. If others with a stake in the configuration system (port managers, etc.) have objections to moving further in this direction, I need to hear about it, and about what you think w

CML2 1.4.0, aka "brutality and heuristics"

2001-05-04 Thread Eric S. Raymond
in the statistical noise. It's not good to get so obsessed about finding clever solutions to corner cases that one loses sight of the larger issues. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered consider

Re: [kbuild-devel] Re: Why recovering from broken configs is too hard

2001-05-04 Thread Eric S. Raymond
elling them to correct by hand in the exceedingly rare cases that would be necessary, in my considered opinion. A more egregious case of using a bazooka to swat a fly I've seldom seen. Can we restore some sense of *proportion* here? -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Er

Re: [kbuild-devel] Why recovering from broken configs is too hard

2001-05-03 Thread Eric S. Raymond
On the other hand, without that kind of background you don't get people building constraint-satisfaction systems to give you provably-correct results, either. So perhaps, on the whole, mine is a more positive predisposition than not ;-). -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric

Re: [kbuild-devel] Why recovering from broken configs is too hard

2001-05-03 Thread Eric S. Raymond
Keith Owens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Thu, 3 May 2001 03:47:55 -0400, > "Eric S. Raymond" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >OK, so you want CML2's "make oldconfig" to do something more graceful than > >simply say "Foo! You violated thi

Re: Hierarchy doesn't solve the problem

2001-05-03 Thread Eric S. Raymond
gt; and then be prompted for all the SCSI drivers (because they was not in > the .config before). There is such an option. It's -d, which sets a symbol from the -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond Love your country, but never trust its government.

Re: Requirement of make oldconfig [was: Re: [kbuild-devel] Re: CML2 1.3.1, aka ...]

2001-05-03 Thread Eric S. Raymond
; unconstrained, ask the user. If fully constrained, take that value > unconditionally." This is a _very_ different case from a broken > configuration as a starting point, in which constraints are violated with > the values as set. Exactly! And in fact, my oldconfig already does what Al

Re: Requirement of make oldconfig [was: Re: [kbuild-devel] Re: CML2 1.3.1, aka ...]

2001-05-03 Thread Eric S. Raymond
k", and we end up in an unmaintainable mess yet again. Yes, this is precisely what I fear. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond Rapists just *love* unarmed women. And the politicians who disarm them. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "u

Re: Why recovering from broken configs is too hard

2001-05-03 Thread Eric S. Raymond
hutting off troublesome configuration > settings, and requiring that the user then reset them manually. Actually this is the best idea I've seen yet, because the single "known-good" configuration is almost all n values. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Ra

Re: Why recovering from broken configs is too hard

2001-05-03 Thread Eric S. Raymond
Alexander Viro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I'm not talking about connectedness of the thing. However, I suspect that > graph has a small subset such that removing it makes it fall apart. Um. So how does that help? -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S.

Re: Why recovering from broken configs is too hard

2001-05-03 Thread Eric S. Raymond
ght dust of atoms (BSD quota is one of them) surrounding one huge gnarly menu-tree-shaped clique. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond Strict gun laws are about as effective as strict drug laws...It pains me to say this, but the NRA seems to be right: The c

Re: Why recovering from broken configs is too hard

2001-05-03 Thread Eric S. Raymond
nd tell the user that it's "obsolete or > renamed"). Yup, I do that. > If the value for a symbol is there, but doesn't fit our > constraints: Ask the user or use the opposite (if it is boolean). *You don't know which symbol is wrong* That's the whole p

Re: [kbuild-devel] Why recovering from broken configs is too hard

2001-05-03 Thread Eric S. Raymond
g earlier > in the tree are likely to appear in more constraints and you > probably want to ask the user to mutate them later. OK. Agreed, but it doesn't solve the general problem. Generating models is still hard. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymo

Hierarchy doesn't solve the problem

2001-05-02 Thread Eric S. Raymond
ng about the semantics of the symbols. Do you sense an abyss yawning beneath you yet? If not, hold on. You'll see it shortly. I started to write up a full explanation but I think I'm going to post that separately. It's long. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>

Re: Requirement of make oldconfig [was: Re: [kbuild-devel] Re: CML2 1.3.1, aka ...]

2001-05-02 Thread Eric S. Raymond
configurator with different rules than the normal one! This is a horrible swamp to wander into just to avoid making oldconfig users fire up vi occasionally. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond "You have taught us much. Come with us and join the mov

Re: Requirement of make oldconfig [was: Re: [kbuild-devel] Re: CML2 1.3.1, aka ...]

2001-05-01 Thread Eric S. Raymond
's poor design, frustrating the user exactly when he/she most needs help. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond "The bearing of arms is the essential medium through which the individual asserts both his social power and his participation in politics as a responsible moral b

Re: CML2 1.3.1, aka "I stick my neck out a mile..."

2001-04-30 Thread Eric S. Raymond
n This configuration violates the following constraints: (X86 and SMP==y) implies RTC!=n without needing some wussy GUI holding your hand :-). -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond The end move in politics is always to pick up a gun. --

Re: CML2 1.3.1, aka "I stick my neck out a mile..."

2001-04-30 Thread Eric S. Raymond
guration setting on an upper level should > not depend on a lower level setting. Sorry, that's dreadfully bad advice and is not going to happen. If I did as you suggest, I'd be throwing out the ability to do consistency checks and deduce side effects. -- http://www.tuxe

Re: [kbuild-devel] Re: CML2 1.3.1, aka "I stick my neck out a mile..."

2001-04-30 Thread Eric S. Raymond
suspicion that neither camp would change their evaluation of my sigs if I did compress them. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond "The bearing of arms is the essential medium through which the individual asserts both his social power and his participation i

Re: [kbuild-devel] Re: CML2 1.3.1, aka "I stick my neck out a mile..."

2001-04-30 Thread Eric S. Raymond
Alexander Viro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > We hang in different parts of USENET I don't hang in Usenet at all, any more. Gave up on it about '98. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond You know why there's a Second Amendment? In case th

Re: CML2 1.3.1, aka "I stick my neck out a mile..."

2001-04-30 Thread Eric S. Raymond
l the same width, though the legend "Help" does show up in gray on the inacive ones. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond "The state calls its own violence `law', but that of the individual `crime'" -- Max Stirner - T

Re: CML2 1.3.1, aka "I stick my neck out a mile..."

2001-04-30 Thread Eric S. Raymond
limit should be considered a rule of thumb rather than a hard limit; it's best to avoid sigs that are large, repetitive, and distracting. See also @es{warlording}. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond What, then is law [government]? I

Re: CML2 1.3.1, aka "I stick my neck out a mile..."

2001-04-29 Thread Eric S. Raymond
s frequently abused as a socially acceptable way to attack people whose opinions or style one disliked. This is doubtless one reason it failed to survive the bandwidth boom. Hmmm. Maybe this should be a Jargon File entry... -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond

CML2 1.3.3 is available

2001-04-29 Thread Eric S. Raymond
you can test the scripts anywhere. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond See, when the GOVERNMENT spends money, it creates jobs; whereas when the money is left in the hands of TAXPAYERS, God only knows what they do with it. Bake it into pies, probably. Anyth

Re: CML2 1.3.1, aka "I stick my neck out a mile..."

2001-04-29 Thread Eric S. Raymond
st > an idea... I tried whitespace, but the default Tkinter font isn't fixed-width. How do you do invisible text? -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond ..every Man has a Property in his own Person. This no Body has any Right to but himself. The Labour of hi

Re: CML2 1.3.1, aka "I stick my neck out a mile..."

2001-04-29 Thread Eric S. Raymond
ig.out because they were calculated last time and wruitten into the saved configuration. You still see the ISA=y message because your config.out has not yet been read in at the time that side effect is computed. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond "

Re: [kbuild-devel] Re: CML2 1.3.1, aka "I stick my neck out a mile..."

2001-04-29 Thread Eric S. Raymond
Eric S. Raymond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > USB and SCSI are both enabled/disabled in the system buses menu. The > apparent confusion Sorry, I typoed... USB and SCSI are both enabled/disabled in the system buses menu. The apparent confusion happens because of th

Re: CML2 1.3.1, aka "I stick my neck out a mile..."

2001-04-29 Thread Eric S. Raymond
r > both up/down scolling and side to side. Once the user has setup their > prefs, the CML code shouldn't keep it jumping all over the screen. That's on my to-do list. It's low-priority, though, since I figure most people will use menuconfig. -- http://www.tu

CML2 1.3.1, aka "I stick my neck out a mile..."

2001-04-27 Thread Eric S. Raymond
fixes. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond "The bearing of arms is the essential medium through which the individual asserts both his social power and his participation in politics as a responsible moral being..." -- J.G.A. Pocock, describing the beliefs

CML2 1.2.8 is available

2001-04-26 Thread Eric S. Raymond
next round of tuning. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond Militias, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves and include all men capable of bearing arms. [...] To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be t

CML2 1.2.5 is available

2001-04-25 Thread Eric S. Raymond
anual updated to reflect gcml implementation experience. Just another point release. -- http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance ac

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