Re: [WSG] Opera 9.10 Margin

However I already have a background image on the elements (the vertical pipe separating each link), and I have not found a way to add this extra image as a background the the first element. Have you tried adding it to the instead? Just use a contextual selector after that... li.first a { back

Re: [WSG] testing in different versions of IE

On 20/02/07, Michael MD <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: has anyone here had any success installing multiple versions of IE on the same machine? Yep. Try this: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2006/11/30/ie6-and-ie7-running-on-a-single-machine.aspx cheers, Ben -- --- ---

Re: [WSG] CSS and non-standard properties

given they are doing it with -engine-rule their shouldn't be a problem (the w3c recommends this method for non standard rules). ...which is funny since I've heard they resist the idea of an engine-based selector rule! e.g you could have an opacity rule like : [snip] and the browser engine sh

Re: [WSG] ATO's (lack of) standards awareness

From the Australian Tax Office page I landed on from a Google search on applying for a Tax File Number online: Please note that Mozilla is only able to be used if certain system requirements are met. However, Mozilla is an open source application and the chance of it being supported is unlikely. I

Re: [WSG] Books - CSS/Standards/Accessibility

Speaker lists for some major events indicate who is best at sales training promotion to the Australian government and standards are low in my opinion. I would not attend some of these conferences due to the True, I perhaps should have made it clear that I'm talking about standards-focussed event

Re: [WSG] Books - CSS/Standards/Accessibility

If hypothetically we were thinking of running a course covering CSS design techniques, Standards and Acessibility, is there a top five book list to complement such an undertaking. Some excellent suggestions have been made; however I'd also try to get the students used to looking for their own r

Re: [WSG] No. abbreviation glyph

> Actually in both cases you shouldn't use 'x', but × or × Good point. But will a screen reader find '×' and say 'times', or for that matter Andrew's unicode alternatives? There's a key question. Anyone got a screen reader handy to test it? Sadly I don't... -- --- ---

Re: [WSG] No. abbreviation glyph

[snip excellent examples of all the meanings of x] None of these is an abbreviation. Maybe not, but ABBR is the closest thing we've got in HTML. After that, we're left with harsh language (http://www.maxdesign.com.au/2006/02/03/harsh-language/). 'No.' is an abbreviation of the word 'number'.

Re: [WSG] No. abbreviation glyph

If you wanted to use a symbol to represent "love" you would use a different unicode character, maybe U+2764 HEAVY BLACK HEART in the Dingbats block or one of the alternative Dingbats. HEAVY BLACK HEART still isn't "love". I doubt anyone would get far with a line like "I heavy black heart you!" :

Re: [WSG] No. abbreviation glyph

They aren't abbreviations they are symbols representing a word or concept. They're sort of the ultimate in abbreviation when you think about it that way ;) Reducing a whole concept to a symbol? Wild ;) The issue that I'm ultimately thinking about is vocalisation, although SEO might come into it

Re: [WSG] No. abbreviation glyph

> Personally I think glyphs/entities in HTML should have been tags with > alt or title attributes. I strongly disagree. All glyphs have an agreed upon meaning as indicated by their context[1]. They are *NOT* abbreviations. Is a capital sigma a glyph representing summation or a letter in the Greek

Re: [WSG] HR tag and Semantics

So, what's so bad with separators "simulated" with CSS. Con: you won't have them with CSS off. Pro: cleaner code, more flexibility. (http://rimantas.com/bits/hr/nohr.html was a quick example I made in May 2005, when similar discussion is going on some of w3 mailing list). For me the con outweigh

Re: [WSG] No. abbreviation glyph

If the glyph for No. (as outlined in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No.) is used, should this be in an abbreviation element to explain it? It is an abbreviation, isn't it?? What do screen-readers make of this particular glyph, if anything? Or should it be kept as No., which is quite commo

Re: [WSG] IE 5.5 issue

> It's been a while since I've had to include support for IE5 (and how > great that feels), Before not supporting any browser, you should first ask what will it take to support it? Even if the number don't otherwise justify supporting IE5, if the fix is simple enough (and adding two or three text-

Re: [WSG] IE 5.5 issue

The problem is in IE 5.5, the content of the page is left-aligned when it should be centeredI dare say on all recent browsers the content is behaving properly (works fine in IE 6.0 + 7.0). Any ideas? Just quickly - I always ask if there's a compelling reason to be serving CSS to IE5.5 at all

Re: [WSG] Standards War - HTML 5 vs XHTML 2.0

What impact does this have on people who have just made the transistion to xHTML 1 like me? For now, nothing. In future there should be a better option than XHTML 1, but it's not here yet. I'm an avid supporter of the web standards and have been guiding many in the ways of xHTML and validating

Re: [WSG] question(s) on code

First question on this thread I am starting here is, is there a case where it would be ok/understandable to have code between and ? I'd say no, and mention that includes comments. I've seen *many* instances of large scale apps/CMS systems which throw in comments outside , usually "rendered by a

Re: [WSG] css conventions

As you can see, the code can get messy rather quickly. He says he does it to avoid conflicts. My argument is that you should only do that when you specifically want the class only to apply to a div. If I want to use the class on another element I can't without creating a new rule. I would think th

Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility

> It's a persistent misconception that accessibility has anything to do > with the design. We all have to educate clients on this point and hope > the message gets out there. Ben... You must elaborate loads on that. If you're saying that a site, no matter how terribly designed, is still possible t

Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility

One of the hardest things in teaching web development is finding decent text books. By the time most get into print, they are already 2 years out of date. And few come close to standards based development. I'm sure there are more than a few texts still in circulation which heartily advocate the FO

Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility

I also think schools are an area that needs a shake up. at my uni they were still teaching inline style sheets and tablular layout in first and second year I think this is a key issue for the industry. Realistically we're not going to eradicate non-standards shops, nor are we about to get

Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility

Accessibility is/should be a way of life for anyone building websites. I don't care to hear the inevitable "but that's the way the client wants it" - does a doctor give a patient morphine for a burst appendix, because that's what the patient wants, for the pain to go away? No. If you consider your

Re: [WSG] IE7/CSS issues on a site

Thanks, now I need to figure out how to fix it w/o IE7 available. If you're on WinXP you could upgrade to IE7 and use Virtual Machine and the MS-supplied test image with IE6 on it (both are free). http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2006/11/30/ie6-and-ie7-running-on-a-single-machine.aspx IMHO, it

Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of and

The only situation I can think of when there is an established visual standard for certain things that don't really have a semantic emphasis. I use a simple test: does the meaning conveyed need to remain if CSS is disabled? If yes, then stick with em and strong. The only place I can think of wh

Re: [WSG] Time-lapse animation of a CSS site being built?

I'm looking for something that I'm pretty sure was posted to the list in the past few months, but have been unable to find in the archives. It was a GIF animation showing the various stages of a site being built in CSS (going from plain HTML -> basic layout -> colours & fonts -> etc.). Does anyon

Re: [WSG] two-headed babies look OK

The publishing system only allows the addition of content in one area, which is actually a single table cell. Developers are expected to use the minimum of HTML, and preferably no JavaScript at all. It's pretty restrictive, and standard university web pages are fairly dull, as you might imagine.

Re: [WSG] tabs (was target=_blank)

No doubt this will change over time, but IMHO I feel it is too early to assume that everyone who can uses tabbed browsing. And I guess there will be some people who will always prefer not to. I think you've hit a key point there - it's about user preference. We can't assume that people will use

Re: [WSG] Safari Rendering on Windows

Apple has just released GetWebKit, it allows windows users to see how Safari will render web pages without then need to install OSX. http://www.getwebkit.org/ Could be useful if the rendering is 100% consistent with the real deal. As far as I can tell, it's not an official Apple release though

Re: [WSG] should ebay listing alike be tabular layout?

On 06/08/06, tee g. peng <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi I have a question, should ebay listing alike be tabular layout? Do you mean an entire item's listing, or a page listing multiple items? A URL would be handy to clarify which bit of ebay you're talking about :) Basic test to decide on whet

Re: [WSG] Semantic usage of th

So are you suggesting that scope should only be used in that case? Or should we be putting scope on all of our s to spell it out as best we can? No, I'd recommend using them all the time. It's a simple habit change, really. Ben -- --- --- The future has arrived;

Re: [WSG] Semantic usage of th

I understand the tag should be used on the items in the top row, but I'd describe it a bit differently - the th tag should be used for any cell which is a heading for other cells. After that it's just following the logic through :) The scope attribute removes ambiguity of the top left cell. ch

Re: [WSG] Support for IE5/Mac? (was Browser stats)

one of the things I do is I actually have a completely craptastic Windows laptop that I test every site I create on. On a related note... apparently Virtual PC is now free! http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtualpc/default.mspx I haven't had time to play with it though Ben -- ---

Re: [WSG] Support for IE5/Mac? (was Browser stats)

Hi, 30 mintues ago I got a call from a user of our site (a department in a major public health institution) to say our site "doesn't work" for him. I established that he is using IE5/Mac (OS9). ... He took extreme umbrage ... You've experienced a web developer rite of passage - "phone call fro

Re: [WSG] Browser stats

Just wondered if anyone has a good resource for Browser stats. Currently I've got a few but most get their stats from visitors to the site which can be a bit biased. Heh, it's an evergreen question... my pre-written thoughts are at http://weblog.200ok.com.au/2005/06/lies-damn-lies-and-browser-st

Re: [WSG] w3c inspecting icon factory

> Can animated GIFs achieves this level of animation? > QT at least is better than WMP or RM format, and it's more accessible > for PC users to download than having Mac user download Window Media > Player (which Microsoft no longer support Mac platform) and Real Player. That just means that QT, WM

Re: [WSG] flash, accesible search, google analytics

I am wondering if the future will exclude flashas a potential tool to present web sites in a flashway or is it jjust the google analytics that do not like it? As far as I know, there are no search engine bots/spiders which can read the contents of Flash. So you need to include alternative conten

Re: [WSG] Displaying page in different resolutions

Yeap, but just remember some people may have browser widths starting at (1680 x 1024) wide screen LCDs are out there and it use. Viewing the fully fluid elastic sites at this resolution can be a bit frightening. A max-width setting (with IE6 hack where required) should take care of that proble

Re: [WSG] Google Accessible Search Released

I sent the team the following email this morning... Subject: A nice first step... Well said. It's kind of spectacular that Google can produce an accessible search and STILL not make a best-practice search form or results page! :) But it does at least show that it is possible to rank accessible

Re: [WSG] how many frames in index page?

is there any serious issue about having too many frames in the index page of a website. No issues specific to it being an index page, although framesets have a common set of issues. First and foremost is if you use them, you have to use them very carefully and ensure your NOFRAMES element conta

Re: [WSG] Preparing accessibility policies/standards in readiness for WCAG2.0

I'm interested in the experiences of other universities/organisations preparing internal accessibility policies or standards in readiness for WCAG2.0. At this stage I'm taking the "wait and see" approach. If you were to update your policies/standards, what would be the major changes? Realist

Re: [WSG] Re: what do you use instead of

I know this may sound stupid and dumb but is there a tag or something that you would use instead of an Just asking as it comes up as a warning when I valiadate a page im coding at the moment. Short answer is http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/objects.html Longer answer to follow on the lis

Re: [WSG] A seismic shift in browser usage for me ....

Not that I personally need to know how to extract fairly accurate UA-ratios since I'm only interested in visiting/using-trends - regardless of UAs. However, it seems like it is possible to get some "quirks" in those trends too, so how big a "pinch of salt" should one add just to be (somewhat) on t

Re: [WSG] Access Keys and large sites

The latest question mark that arose in my mind regards to access keys: since there's only 10 numeric keys (including "0") what does one do if you're building a site that exceeds 10 pages? The one I'm working on now looks like it's going to top-out at over 50 pages with some sections containing 2 d

Re: [WSG] WCAG 1.0 AAA Rating

Can you claim WCAG 1.0 AAA rating if your preferred stylesheet doesn't have sufficient color contrast for low-vision users but instead you have a stylesheet switcher and properly marked up alternate style sheets that do? I'd look at the practicality of the situation here. If someone with a co

Re: [WSG] WCAG 1.0 AAA Rating

Take for instance "11.3 Provide information so that users may receive documents according to their preferences (e.g., language, content type, etc.)" This can practically never be fully complied with, I'd argue. Well it's certainly possible, but as you say the practicalities mean it pretty much d

Re: [WSG] Can it be done?

I have a client that wants a liquid css layout, but also wants to have a flash banner that stretches with it. So if a main content area is 70% wide, Nick Cowie has discussed this idea over at http://nickcowie.com/2006/flash-and-the-fluid-elastic-design/ Not sure if what need matches exactly wh

Re: [WSG] Opera 9 and standards support

Not related to a site, but to the application itself: admittedly, I have quite a large number of fonts installed on my WinXP box...but for some reason, Opera 9 (and even 8.5) somehow get confused and think Copperplate is actually Verdana, and a rather gothic looking blackletter font is Tahoma. In

Re: [WSG] Opera 9 and standards support

I believe that Safari was the first browser to pass the acid test? Yes, then Konqueror on Linux. Opera is the first PC/Win browser and the first cross-platform browser to pass Acid2. Ben -- --- --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - Willi

Re: [WSG] Opera 9 and standards support

Not related to a site, but to the application itself: admittedly, I have quite a large number of fonts installed on my WinXP box...but for some reason, Opera 9 (and even 8.5) somehow get confused and think Copperplate is actually Verdana, and a rather gothic looking blackletter font is Tahoma. In

Re: [WSG] Opera 9 and standards support

FYI, Opera 9 final has been released and it has a special section for all those standards folks out there :) Apart from passing Acid2, you mean? :) http://www.opera.com/users/glenn/ hehehehe ahh those crazy kids from oslo ;) My favourite Opera 9 feature so far would have to be content block

Re: [WSG] CSS is dead... use markup for presentation.

[snip] WCAG Samurai process inaccessible to, and hidden away from, all but the few invited elite. I will admit, however, it may be too early to pass judgement on the WCAG Samurai right now, and it's only fair that we let them give it a shot. After all, the members are unlikely to be weighed down b

Re: [WSG] Mac and CSS

> The way it renders things is so incompatible with modern browsers that > basically you end up redoing your CSS entirely to get IE5.2 to work > (using a hack to send IE5.2 a tailored stylesheet). So unless you're > being paid by the hour, just don't... I wouldn't go that far. I find that most of

Re: [WSG] Mac and CSS

do we really care about IE 5 for Mac anymore? Only so far as it's on the "supported by graceful degradation" list, like Netscape 4 and so on :) The way it renders things is so incompatible with modern browsers that basically you end up redoing your CSS entirely to get IE5.2 to work (using a hac

Re: [WSG] Offlist unscientific poll

heya, I use Opera for preference, occasionally switching to Firefox. I'm hoping I won't even need FF anymore once Opera 9 is out; I only really use FF for Gmail as it doesn't like Opera much (in fact nothing put out by Google or Blogger really likes Opera - Firefox is the new IE! http://weblog.2

Re: [WSG] Usability Studies on "Click Here" Labelling of Links?

> Yes, thanks for that. I'm pretty much aware of these issues. My point > goes back to a usability issue and what users are used to interacting > with on web sites. I've seen a lot of inexperienced users double-click web links and form buttons ("hey! they charged my credit card twice!"). Does th

Re: [WSG] Usability Studies on "Click Here" Labelling of Links?

Hi Geoff, > Does anyone know if anyone has done any usability studies on web sites > that have well labelled links as opposed to links labelled "Click > Here"? I have searched and I can't find anything. "Don't 'click here': writing meaningful link text" http://www.deyalexander.com.au/publication

Re: [WSG] NY Times redesign

> The New York Times has had a major redesign and has, well, partly > gone to standards. > It's a bit of a mess, and it definitely assumes a big monitor, but > it's good to see such a big name, high-profile site moving toward > standards at least. Hmm, if this is a move towards standards then the

Re: [WSG] injecting a bit of humor into your css

> Isn't adding jokes into your own code akin to telling your self a joke? > And if so, why are you talking to yourself? Ok, thats all from me. Not really, it's more like telling a joke to your fellow view-source-obsessive peers :) I've left greets to people in CSS files... and they've found them!

Re: [WSG] liquid layouts versus fixed width

> thanks Christian. I've only just come across the "elastic" idea today, going > to give it a whirl as it sounds like its the most flexible as you put it. Elastic is a great way to go... Since IE7 apparently supports min-width and max-width I think we'll see a rise in popularity of that technique;

Re: [WSG] Microformats and screen scrapers

Hi, > I work for a company that has to do allot with contact information on > the web. The idea of Hcard sounds like a fantastic idea and I cant > wait to jump on the wagon. Untill someone brought to my attention > screen scrapers. We have a big issue with screen scrapers right now > and applying