Do we know if the Lachrimrae were ever done as a dance? Or were they purely
an instrumental performance piece?
If they were done as a dance do the steps survive?
Regards,
Craig
Bonjour André!
>instance, we have in France Les Editions du CNRS, which release french lute
>composers - that's is not quite as convenient as a fac similé- but at a
>reasonable price : I have never seen any xerox copy of the CNTS editions ...
>all the lute players I know just buy them.
Then you o
> Do we know if the Lachrimrae were ever done as a dance? Or were they purely
> an instrumental performance piece?
Would you also consider a choreography to JSBach's Agnus Dei form the
b-minor Mass
RT
__
Roman M. Turovsky
http://turovsky.org
http://polyhymnion.org
Roman wrote:
>
> Would you also consider a choreography to JSBach's Agnus Dei form the
> b-minor Mass
I'm not sure I understand what you're implying here.
Craig
Probably that Lachrimae verae was never intended as a true dance piece
Paolo Declich
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Dowland
> Roman wrote:
> >
> > Would you also consider a choreography t
I doubt if the Lachrimae pieces were ever intended to be actually danced,
but in the pieces are in a pavan format. There is an accompanying
galliard, but it is so virtuosic, that to dance to it seems most unlikely.
ed
At 06:34 AM 10/15/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Do we know if the La
This is not a crazy question in my opinion. Lachrimae was a very popular tune
and had many surviving arrangements -- this lends me to believe somebody would
have done a dance version! Also the fact that "Flow My Tears" exists really
makes me think that the tune was used in many settings.
--- Roman
Hi all
On Wednesday 15 October 2003 14:50, Paolo Declich wrote:
> Probably that Lachrimae verae was never intended as a true dance piece
"Probably"? What is the probability for that? ;-)
Seriously: Pavane WAS a very serious dance!
Arto
Dear Arto and all,
"Probably" here means "I think that the Roman's thought was..."
Seriously, yes pavane was a very serious dance, but Lachrimae verae
(probably) was a stylised pavane, i.e. never intended to dance, to perform
but to listen to.
Paolo
- Original Message -
From: "Arto Wikla
I'm certainly no expert, but I've got the idea that the pavan, as well as
many other dance forms, was modified by the relatively rapidly evolving
instrumental aesthetic of the period beginning in the late middle ages,
extending well into the late classic/early romantic periods; arguably even
beyond
Given the popularity, I see no reason to conclude that it was not danced to.
Any evidence?
-Arthur Fossum
Also here is a site with the steps to the pavanne and other dances
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/diessay2.html
-Original Message-
From: Fossum, Arthur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 8:36 AM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: Re: Dowland
Given the p
This points to a big problem in music scholarship -- where common knowledge
meets actual hard facts. Common knowledge approach: people have somehow always
found a way to dance to popular music; popular music is played at events where
there is likely to be dancing; king's make request and court lute
Hello Rainer,
Sorry, I'm just a layman. But I know the feeling. Sometimes I just can't
resist too.
Dr. K. told me how he made the calculations in his head. So unlike others
who can do such things without thinking, he had trained himself. It was a
matter of adding and subtracting numbers from
>Use the email version of the program. Paste an ABCtab file in the
>body of an email message to
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will get an EPS file back in a few
>seconds. I use ghostscript and
>EPS2pdf for system X to convert this to pdf, but photoshop can
>usually open it and save as a jpg.
I jus
Arthur wrote:
>
> Also here is a site with the steps to the pavanne and other dances
>
> http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/diessay2.html
This is an informative page as far as it goes. It talks about the dances done in the
Renaissance in a very general way and mentions three dance masters and n
- Original Message -
From: Stewart McCoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Lute Net <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 15 October 2003 00:17
Subject: The cost of lute music
> "Boone was musical successor to the dichotic phenomenon Blind Tom,
> who, though said to be semi-idiotic, repeated the most compl
On Wednesday 15 October 2003 15:19, Chris Schaub wrote:
! Also,
> just because we think a piece is virtuosic does not mean Dowland or his
> contemporaries did!
>
That last sentence is known: already in his time dowland was known as a
virtuosic player appreciated by several members of the upper cl
Dance music generally gives way to "just-for-listening" music, doesn't
it? Look at jazz, tango, even rock'n'roll. I have no idea if the
Lachrimae was supposed to be danced or not, but it seems logical to
think pavanas and galliards also developed into just-for-listening
works. What about bourrees,
Arthur Ness (boston) at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> There's an
> idiot savant in one of Steinbeck's short stories, Oh yes. Of Mice and Men.
> Wasn't he called "Bear"?
You're confusing Steinbeck's tales told about two idiots, if I can
paraphrase Shakespeare. Lenny in "Of Mice and Men" has enormou
To go back to the original message...
> Do we know if the Lachrimrae were ever done as a dance?
I certainly don't, but it seems rather optimistic to hope for a
journal/diary entry or a dance list saying that they did, and the absence of
such a document certainly doesn't prove that they didn't.
>
An interesting feature of recent CNRS publications of lute music is the
issuance of a separate volume with just the tablatures. I do not know if
the tablature volume is available separately. I am sorry to hear Bernd's
report that many are OOP. But in some cases a new edition would be
appropriate
Is there any recording of Lachrimae ever made in a dancing spirit ? Not to
my kwnoledge Will it more natural to play a very famous tune in a
dancing form or on the contrary in a much estetic view in order to get the
quintessence of the harmony and the strenght of the word ?
Why top the musi
I guess I have a problem comparing our modern idea of virtuosic with what we
suppose it meant in the Renaissance -- did that word even exist. To say that
all of Dowland's pieces are virtuosic because he was a virtuoso seems to be a
bit of a logical fallacy. I actually think there is a great differe
FROM: Matanya Ophee, INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
DATE: 10/13/03 5:02 PM
Re: Re: MO's attacks
<>
MOrphee wote<><><><>Unfortunately for him and for his misguided predatory
philosophy, that is far from being the case. We should be grateful to him
and his ilk for the fact that the Franko Uni
Tony wrote:
>
> To go back to the original message...
> > Do we know if the Lachrimrae were ever done as a dance?
>
> I certainly don't, but it seems rather optimistic to hope for a
> journal/diary entry or a dance list saying that they did, and the absence of
> such a document certainly doesn't
Chris Schaub at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I guess I have a problem comparing our modern idea of virtuosic with what we
> suppose it meant in the Renaissance -- did that word even exist.
You mean in English? Maybe. The OED records use of the word starting in
the mid-17th century, after Dowland'
Craig:
I think you have been dissed, impugned, and generally condescended to,
but I could be wrong. Personally; I think it's a valid question,
understanding that the pieces in the Suite are dance pieces. If yes what is
the evidence and all that implies, if no, then the arguments about Dowla
At 11:09 AM 10/15/2003 -0400, "Arthur Ness (boston)"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I think someone even told me
>that there is a facsimile edition published in Poland.
That was me. It was not published in Poland, but rather in the Ukraine, by
Muzichna Ukraina in 1981, edited by Miroslav Skoryk. It
Chris Schaub at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I guess I have a problem comparing our modern idea of virtuosic with what
we
> suppose it meant in the Renaissance -- did that word even exist.
and Howard Posner replied:
"You mean in English? Maybe. The OED records use of the word starting in
the mid
Dear List,
In Poland since long we knew about the Lwow MS, simply becouse it has
several _polonica_, and to my knowledge Dr Piotr Pozniak from Krakow
was one of the first to deal with it. On the ''West'' Mr Levi
Sheptovitsky has written a Master thesis on it (I don't remember the
dates) and I'
Dear Chris,
That's a fascinating question. There's no doubt that great players were
recognised
and highly valued - what Renaissance Prince could be without a fine lutenist
in
his household? But in contemporary sources descriptions like "heavenly" and
"divine"
keep popping up - not so much emphasis
Donatella sent me a message saying she thought that perhaps the price in
quatrains was too low. I really can't say. I don;'t remember the original
message, but I think the price came from the catalogue of his library by
Ferdinand Columbus. Alas almst everything in his liobrary was destroyed in
t
Dear Jerzy,
How nice to see your name. The manuscript is surely not unknown in east
or west, as Ophee would like us to believe. Szczepan'ska wrote about it in
the Chybin'eskiego Festschrift and there are some Polish pieces from it
published by Z. Szeweyskowski in _Muzyka w dawnym Krakowiz_ (Cra
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At 11:33 PM 10/15/2003 +0200, Jerzy ZAK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On p. 9/10 Sheptovitsky writes:
>... Following is my transcription of Farewell and Forlorn Hope from a
>little known manuscriptthe Cracow Lute Tablature, in which both fantasias
>are included. The present rendition differs from
At 08:35 PM 10/15/2003 -0400, "Arthur Ness (boston)"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Dear Jerzy,
>
>How nice to see your name. The manuscript is surely not unknown in east
>or west, as Ophee would like us to believe. Szczepan'ska wrote about it in
>the Chybin'eskiego Festschrift and there are some
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