Wasn't that amazing? Made my day. Congratulations to Lucas and the gang. Does
anyone know if other movements were recorded, or if, indeed, there are other
movements?
Rob
www.robmackillop.net
On 2 Jul 2011, at 02:55, Ed Durbrow edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp wrote:
There are some performers in
On 2 July 2011 09:07, Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
I'm particularly impressed how the basses of the lute overshadow the
cello in the tuttis...
What we see is not what we hear, if you ask me. It feels like they're
playbacking to a prerecorded track. Simple trick:
Indeed, this is what I was really getting at - sorry, I was trying to
be ironic but clearly not obviously enough since it was missable!
Recording engineers (or whoever places microphones) really do have a
lot to answer for: lutes sounding like Bechstein grands in concertos;
On 2 July 2011 12:46, Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Indeed, this is what I was really getting at - sorry, I was trying to
be ironic but clearly not obviously enough since it was missable!
The modern strings were not (missable, that is), which is another part
of their
Greetings,
Does anyone know of an English translation of the introductions in
Kapsberger's Libro Primo d' Intavolatura di Lauto, Libro Primo
d'Intavolatura di Chitarone, and the Libro quarto d'intavolatura di
Chitarone? I do have the facsimiles.
I would like to gain the
Ron Andrico writes: 'This whole archlute episode brings up an
important point: At some point, we have to admit that we are not trying
to re-create an historical sound.'
There are a number of difficulties with this view of which the
principal is that the original composer created
Am 01.07.2011 um 14:27 schrieb Martyn Hodgson:
Thank you. Whilst not denying that large archlutes existed (played at
the appropriate pitch), how do we know that these instruments were not
small theorbos with just the first course an octave down?
Hello Martyn and David!
First
To Martyn All:
My point is, while we may try to recreate sounds of the past, we are
constrained by the parameters of the present. Echoing Arto's idea, the
'truth' of what we hear is here and now. I would prefer to immerse
myself in the contextual evidence and damn the realities
To All:
We have a new Saturday morning quote on our blog, considering whether
there really was a Renaissance.
[1]http://mignarda.wordpress.com/2011/07/02/saturday-morning-quote-7/
Ron Donna
--
References
1. http://mignarda.wordpress.com/2011/07/02/saturday-morning-quote-7/
Dear Andreas,
Thank you for this.
Well, as you know, there is indeed little evidence for what was the
most 'usual' configuration for extended peghead lutes in 18th century
Italy and, as we both seem to say, these instruments could conceivable
be large archlutes or small
All this is no excuse to ignore what evidence there actually is about
what early composers, and their audiences, expected.
--- On Sat, 2/7/11, Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com wrote:
From: Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com
Subject: [LUTE] Re: What's the point to 'historical
I generally support Martyn's opinion.
I think there are two approaches around at the moment. The one with a
relaxed
feeling towards historical evidence playing Liuto forte or Dowland on
an
archlute which seems to be quite popular at the moment. This one
accepts the
fact
Martyn,
Very simple answers. Composers expected money/food/lodging in exchange for
whatever music his (almost always his) patron desired. Audiences expected to
be pleased.
Chris
Christopher Wilke
Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
www.christopherwilke.com
--- On Sat, 7/2/11, Martyn
Ron's question, made relevant for the listers, freely translates to
what's the point of playing lute. There is no point, of course, which
is exactly the point. Accepting the fact that we follow such a
pointless pursuit, I fail to see why we should stop at holding an
instrument that looks like a
Very simple answers. Composers expected money/food/lodging in exchange
for whatever music his (almost always his) patron desired.
Just kidding, right? Not even Charly Marx would have said so, I suppose.
Audiences expected to be pleased.
I beg to differ.
Mathias
To get on or off this
The whole effort of historical musicology for at least the past 50
years has been to determine, in so far as the evidence exists and to
the best of our ability, what the earlier composers (and thus their
audiences) would have expected.
MH
--- On Sat, 2/7/11, Ron Andrico
I'm afraid you missed the principal subject in the question I asked. To
paraphrase it: what do we reasonably know about what sounds the
composer (and audience) expect to hear when the music was performed?
MH
--- On Sat, 2/7/11, Christopher Wilke chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote:
2011/7/2 Ed Durbrow [1]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp
I just looked at the first chord and said no. I hate that chord.
So do I.
And if I transpose the lowest note in that chord to opened 6th course?
Criminal or not?
--
References
1. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp
To get on
Do it! My guess is Bakfark would have liked to have his music played
with a few notes missing, or on open courses, than not played at all.
And I guarantee you that no audience member will know or care, ever.
Unless they have taken part in this list-serve discussion, naturally.
Quoting
On Jul 2, 2011, at 8:36 AM, David van Ooijen wrote:
...I fail to see why we should stop at holding an
instrument that looks like a lute, and not care about how it sounds.
Art is a personal expression of universal value, but Western art music
is rather coded. I believe that for a player it
On 2 July 2011 15:49, Mathias Roesel mathias.roe...@t-online.de wrote:
I'm not so sure, however, that there's no point in
playing the lute
The beauty of doing a pointless thing is, that it being without point,
you can pursue it without any reason outside your own desire to do so.
That is the
Art is a personal expression of universal value,
That concept of the arts has developed in Western Europe in the wake
of political emancipation during the 18th-19th centuries. Before that
era, artists would usually not consider themselves autonomous so as to
make use of their art in
On Jul 2, 2011, at 12:50 PM, Mathias Roesel wrote:
...Music as a way of personal expression is a notion that didn't
develop until
the 19th century. Music to _raise_ fear, joy, anger, sadness,
tranquility
etc. has been composed since the invention of monody. But not music
that
expresses
Something that has had me perplexed for some time:
Historical sound on recordings.
It seems to me that most available recordings of lute music,
historical or not, are very heavy on reverberation. It has been
an old ploy in the recording industry for decades - take any recording,
add reverb
What Mathias meant is that self-expression did not become the standard goal
for all music
intil the 19th century.
Self expression certainly has existed ever since Froberger. Some, like
Zelenka, tried to control it, but it was coming out anyway.
Some, like CPEBach and Müthel, have let is spew.
Right on, Tom! I've made this same point myself in earlier posts.
Ned
On Jul 2, 2011, at 1:32 PM, t...@heartistrymusic.com wrote:
Something that has had me perplexed for some time:
Historical sound on recordings.
It seems to me that most available recordings of lute music,
historical or
Just my small inexperienced opinion. The group that I do historical
reenactment with has a basic premise of learn history by doing which
you do at whatever level you can presently achieve. For me as a
player/performer it is like peeling an onion. I'm going to start where
I can,
Martyn,
--- On Sat, 7/2/11, Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
The whole effort of historical musicology
for at least the past 50
years has been to determine, in so far as
the evidence exists and to
the best of our ability, what the earlier
composers (and thus
On Jul 2, 2011, at 1:40 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote:
What Mathias meant is that self-expression did not become the
standard goal for all music
intil the 19th century.
Self expression certainly has existed ever since Froberger. Some,
like Zelenka, tried to control it, but it was coming out
On 2 July 2011 20:29, Christopher Wilke chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote:
I'm thinking of something like Susan McClary's hypothesis that Schubert's
instrumental music is really a thinly veiled homosexual manifesto because he
often used girly chords related by thirds.
Hahaha. I've just read Susan
This is not a problem that only affects one aspect of performance. We
have musicology in the lute world, but we don't really have
peer-reviewed musicology for performance practice. That's because the
circle is too small.
One could review an article or a recording by one's colleague,
- Original Message -
From: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 8:08 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: What's the point to 'historical sound'
On 2 July 2011 20:29, Christopher Wilke chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote:
I'm thinking of
On 2 July 2011 21:22, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
If there is such a word it should be gynAEcentric.
Ms. Cusick knowledge of Greek is evidently somewhat lacking.
Well, perhaps, but there's the world's view of what words mean to
consider as well:
On Jul 2, 2011, at 3:12 PM, David Tayler wrote:
2. I have never heard a recording of Dowland's Lachrimae consort
music
on instruments (violins, viols, lute) from 1603 (maybe there is
one,
would love to hear it)
Of these, the first is of course the most intriguing, but it is the
On 2 July 2011 18:50, Mathias Roesel mathias.roe...@t-online.de wrote:
But I'd have difficulties in taking these
features as personal.
Would you consider Lachrimae as a personal artistic expression of
Dowland or as an example of more general craftsmanship? Renaissance
polyphony is another
- Original Message -
From: Mathias Roesel mathias.roe...@t-online.de
The sound is part of the coding. Francesco had
another sound in his head when composing his pieces, than Dowland, Weiss
Still an unanswered question, isn't it? Viola da mano, lute, artificial
nails (forgot the
Right on, Tom! I've made this same point myself in earlier posts.
Ned
Thanks Ned!
Tom
On Jul 2, 2011, at 1:32 PM, t...@heartistrymusic.com wrote:
Something that has had me perplexed for some time:
Historical sound on recordings.
It seems to me that most available recordings of
David,
Today's performers should be interested in moving their audiences, of
course! After all, we're living in the 21st century, and prof performers
have to make a living of it. I do know that.
But for me it's a hobby, and I can afford the luxury of wondering what the
sound and performance
- Original Message -
From: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com
To: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 8:26 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: What's the point to 'historical sound'
On 2 July 2011 21:22, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
If there is such a
Would you consider Lachrimae as a personal artistic expression of Dowland
or
as an example of more general craftsmanship?
An expression of his sublime art, certainly. I do resist the notion,
however, that Dowland had personally fallen in love with queen Elizabeth. On
the other hand, I had the
Weekends are often very quiet. Nice to see the list buzzing along.
On 02/07/2011 22:37, Mathias Roesel wrote:
Would you consider Lachrimae as a personal artistic expression of Dowland
or
as an example of more general craftsmanship?
An expression of his sublime art, certainly. I do resist
On Jul 2, 2011, at 4:27 PM, Mathias Roesel wrote:
We'll never know for sure, of course. But my guess is, as Roman
rightly put
it, that self-expression didn't become a standard goal until the 19th
century.
I disagree. I'm sure I can cite impassioned performances and
impassioned audiences
People didn't suddenly
change from neoclassical robots into emotional beings in 1800.
Well, if we diminish the exaggeration just a bit ... I do think that
enlightenment and the French revolution brought about quite a turnabout. In
feudal societies, people would publicly express their feelings.
People didn't suddenly
change from neoclassical robots into emotional beings in 1800.
Well, if we diminish the exaggeration just a bit ... I do think that
enlightenment and the French revolution brought about quite a turnabout. In
feudal societies, people would NOT publicly express their
On Jul 2, 2011, at 6:27 AM, be...@interlog.com wrote:
Do it! My guess is Bakfark would have liked to have his music played with a
few notes missing, or on open courses, than not played at all. And I
guarantee you that no audience member will know or care, ever. Unless they
have taken part
On Jul 2, 2011, at 12:22 PM, Monica Hall wrote:
If there is such a word it should be gynAEcentric.
cf. gynaecology, gynaeceum etc
Ms. Cusick knowledge of Greek is evidently somewhat lacking.
Perhaps she was writing in English.
To get on or off this list see list
Dictionary.com confirms gynocentric. But what does it have to do with
lutes? Gynocentricism seems unikely in the period when lutes were
popular.
On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 7:24 PM, howard posner
[1]howardpos...@ca.rr.com wrote:
On Jul 2, 2011, at 12:22 PM, Monica Hall wrote:
I find lutes to be decidedly gynomorphic.
RT
- Original Message -
From: David Smith david.smith...@gmail.com
To: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 8:38 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Gynocentricityness
Dictionary.com confirms gynocentric. But what does it have
From: Mathias Roesel mathias.roe...@t-online.de
People didn't suddenly
change from neoclassical robots into emotional beings in 1800.
Well, if we diminish the exaggeration just a bit ... I do think that
enlightenment and the French revolution brought about quite a turnabout.
In
feudal
On Jul 2, 2011, at 10:13 PM, Eugene Kurenko wrote:
And if I transpose the lowest note in that chord to opened 6th
course? Criminal or not?
I'll never tell. If you have an octave on the 6th, you could play that
half only. Easy to do for the FIRST chord in a piece.
Ed
No, some music has no self-expression whatsoever. none intended either.
Try Hasse.
There is a fair amount of unitended self-expression in a lot of Baroque
music.
There is occasional subversive self-expression in it too.
RT
- Original Message -
From: David R d_lu...@comcast.net
To:
Well, maybe not as gynomorphic as a French horn.
RT
From: Ed Durbrow edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp
In a pregnant state? I find guitars more of a feminine shape.
On Jul 3, 2011, at 10:51 AM, Roman Turovsky wrote:
I find lutes to be decidedly gynomorphic.
Ed Durbrow
Saitama, Japan
On Jul 2, 2011, at 7:01 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote:
In fact a public expression of feelings through the choice of c-minor for his
Great Mass did cost Mozart his job in Salzburg.
What cost Mozart his job in Salzburg was that he didn't want it. He insisted
that he be released, and it took
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