As long as we're on the subject, curious minds might check out
www.schillerinstitute.org/music/petition.html#unique_experiment
for a peculiar modern pitch controversy with some unlikely names
attached. Here's a sample:
> The Campaign To Lower the Tuning Pitch
>
> On April 9, 1988 at a co
On Dec 10, 2007, at 1:44 AM, LGS-Europe wrote:
> Or for singers: in the Paris' Opera a' was 423Hz in 1810, and had
> risen to 431.7Hz by 1822. The singers complained and had it brought
> down to 425.8Hz. This lasted only 5 years; in 1830 it was back at
> 430.8Hz and continued to rise.
Georg
Indeed and this is the very point I wished to put across to those who appear
to think there was some such thing as an established 'roman' pitch.
MH
LGS-Europe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
And I forgot the best quote from the Grove article:
The concept of a precise and universal rela
th-century
Rome). Where in Rome was pitch high? And who documented it?
All I can find in a quick browse through the Pitch entry in the New Grove
that Roman 'baroque' pitch was a' = ca 380Hz (a much simplified summary, I'm
sure, but that's not the point here I suppose).
Of course, I did not mean to suggest that a piece in New German keyboard
tabkature would be in a diatonic scale on D sharp. Just the lowered
("flatted") notes would be written as "-is" notes. In E flat major, the Eb
would be Dis (D#), the Ab would be Gis (G#) and the Bb would be Ais (A#).
An E f
Many thanks for this explanation, Arthur! I really couldn't
imagine that anyone liked to think in "Dis-Dur". Now it seems
that tablature players didn't think or need to think in
musical terms at all, at least when they weren't the composers
or intabulators.
Best wishes,
Stephan
Am 26 Sep 20
I am a bit busy this morning, so I'll have to confine my remakrs to Dis
Dur.
FROM: "Stephan Olbertz", INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<><><><>By the way, does anyone know why some baroque lute pieces/sonatas
are marked as being in "Dis-Dur" (D sharp major, 9 (!) sharps) rather than
"Es-Dur" (E fla
I don't have any answer on this, but obviously it is very often the case, that the
lute-composers in baroque times even prefered to call that tonality Dis-Dur (Jacobi,
Weiss, Breitkopf-Incipits).
Possibly that seemed more obscure in their eyes or it could mean: Hey, did you ever
play Dis-Major
ECTED]>
>Cc: "Doctor Oakroot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Lute Mailing List"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 11:11 PM
>Subject: Re: Different note names (was: Baroque pitch)
>
>
>> Arto,
>>
>> A good answer, the he
quot;Arto Wikla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Thomas Schall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Doctor Oakroot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Lute Mailing List"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 12:43 AM
Subject: Re: Different note names (wa
AIL PROTECTED]>; "Lute Mailing List"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 11:11 PM
Subject: Re: Different note names (was: Baroque pitch)
> Arto,
>
> A good answer, the hexachord system (I'm not going to look up solmisation
in
> the dictionary)
Note my other answer, what you hear on the lute is more obvious on the harp.
Not that it is a better or purer instrument, just that there is no
interference by your skills at fretting or playing the harmony.
Best, Jon
>I think the explanation is to be found in the hexachord solmisation,
>where they had only the six notes c, d, e, f, g, a; or more properly
>ut, re, mi, fa, sol, la. And when the melody went over la or under
>ut, they changed the "reference point".
>
>But why is that so, exactly? Why the b is missi
gt;
Cc: "Doctor Oakroot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Lute Mailing List"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: Different note names (was: Baroque pitch)
>
> Dear Thomas and lutenists,
>
> on Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Thomas Schall wrote:
By the way, does anyone know why some baroque lute
pieces/sonatas are marked as being in "Dis-Dur" (D
sharp major, 9 (!) sharps) rather than "Es-Dur" (E flat
major, 3 flats)? I remember to have seen this in the
works of J.B. Hagen and elsewhere (Breitkopf-Incipt?).
Regards,
Stephan
Am 25 Sep
Dear Thomas and lutenists,
on Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Thomas Schall wrote:
> I've read somewhere that there is a reason why it's not a b c d e f g
I think the explanation is to be found in the hexachord solmisation,
where they had only the six notes c, d, e, f, g, a; or more properly
ut, re, mi, fa,
Yes Arto,
you're right.
This creates keys like gis-Dur (g-sharp major) and As-Moll (a-flat
minor).
I've read somewhere that there is a reason why it's not a b c d e f g
like in the english speaking countries which would be in a medieval
manuscript where there would be really a difference between
Today's Early Music World Esperanto of more or less fixed pitches for music
of more or less defined places and times, is a workable compromise.
Musicians travel a lot, so knowing that I can use my 440 or 415 instruments
anywhere without having to abuse them to 466 or even higher is a good thing.
It
Dear lutenists
On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Thomas Schall wrote:
> Doctor Oakroot schrieb am 25.09.2003:
> >Is German H = English B or English Bb.
> definitly german h = englich b
> german b = english b-flat
In Finnish and Swedish we also use the names
c, d, e, f, g, h, c for the "white keys".
And al
Doctor Oakroot schrieb am 25.09.2003:
>Is German H = English B or English Bb.
definitly german h = englich b
german b = english b-flat
Thomas
>> By the way, why don't you use a real name?
> My real name is secret for religious reasons.
> As for my legal name, I have the bad fortune to share it with a world
> famous sculptor, a jazz musician/composer whose bluesier compositions
> sound a lot like my jazzier compositions, a world famous ma
Spring, aus dem, Rainer wrote:
>>
>>
>> So which is it? Is H B or Bb? I had heard that it was Bb.
>
> This doesn't make any sense since you don't tell us what is German
> notation and what is English notation.
Is German H = English B or English Bb.
>
> Anyway, my last mail was quite clear, was
iner aus dem Spring
> > IS department, development
> >
> > Tel.: +49 211-5296-355
> > Fax.: +49 211-5296-405
> > SMTP: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Robert C
gt; IS department, development
>
> Tel.: +49 211-5296-355
> Fax.: +49 211-5296-405
> SMTP: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Robert Compton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Donnerstag, 25. September 2003 13:36
>> T
gt;
>>
>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Robert Compton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Sent: Donnerstag, 25. September 2003 13:36
>>> To: Lute Mailing List; Michael Thames; Jon Murphy
>>> Subject: Re: Baroque pitch
>>>
age-
> From: Robert Compton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Donnerstag, 25. September 2003 13:36
> To: Lute Mailing List; Michael Thames; Jon Murphy
> Subject: Re: Baroque pitch
>
>
> the key "H" is actually b-flat. why the germans did that i
> have not
D]>; "Michael Thames"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 1:49 AM
Subject: Re: Baroque pitch
> For all you younger folk,
>
> Pitch is irrelevant (except when it is grossly different). Those of us who
> are very senior citizens have found that middle C
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Lute Mailing List"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 5:02 PM
> Subjec
- Original Message -
From: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Lute Mailing List"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: Baroque pitch
> > When I
For all you younger folk,
Pitch is irrelevant (except when it is grossly different). Those of us who
are very senior citizens have found that middle C has dropped to about A
when we go for the songs. ( And I will leave this list for a few days to
spend a long weekend with my fellow dotards singing
At 09:30 AM 9/24/2003 -0700, Howard Posner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I wouldn't be surprised if
>the latest Grove's has some detailed article on pitch.
There is. By Bruce Haynes and Peter R. Cooke. There was also an extended
articles on the subject in most previous editions of Grove's.
Mata
Michael Thames at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> When I was visiting the Yale Museum of Instruments this past summer,
>I had an interesting conversation with the curator about Baroque 415
>pitch. He said that Baroque pitch ranged from country and city anywhere
> from 300 something up
digs up the exact dates and details.
Taco Walstra
> Dear all,
> When I was visiting the Yale Museum of Instruments this past summer, =
> I had an interesting conversation with the curator about Baroque 415 =
> pitch. He said that Baroque pitch ranged from country and city anyw
> When I was visiting the Yale Museum of Instruments this past summer, =
> I had an interesting conversation with the curator about Baroque 415 =
> pitch. He said that Baroque pitch ranged from country and city anywhere =
> from 300 something up to I believe around 560, (I ca
Dear all,
When I was visiting the Yale Museum of Instruments this past summer, =
I had an interesting conversation with the curator about Baroque 415 =
pitch. He said that Baroque pitch ranged from country and city anywhere =
from 300 something up to I believe around 560, (I can't rem
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